Need help with some identification of some Pilots

[monkemane]

Hello! I l've already posted this on the Far East section but I figured this is a better place to post this. I need help identifying these Pilot pens as I've searched everywhere with no luck. Also, sorry that the pictires are too lowres and have a watermark, couldn't do anything about that

[mke]

Pilot has a customer support page - ask there. Use deepl.com to translate your question to Japanese. Send the link to this thread, so they can see the photos.

 

https://www.pilot.co.jp/contact/Inquiries_about_products.html

[inkstainedruth]

Also maybe contact Pilot USA, so you don't have to fight your way through a translation program (but they may not be open today because it's not only Saturday, but also Christmas Eve -- you might not hear back from them immediately).  The URL is http://pilotpen.us. 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[mke]

I don't think that Pilot USA knows about vintage Pilot models.

deepl.com provides extremely good translations of Japanese texts and also creates good Japanese sentences (according to my Japanese colleagues, they sound natural).

It is no problem to communicate with a Japanese using deepl.com .

Good luck.

[OldTravelingShoe]

Hi, @monkemane, good request for help! 

The reason for which @mke, who is a real expert on the topic, recommended to contact Pilot is that the pens you showed are unusual.

 

I don't know the answer, but here are some elements of identification or issue with it:

1. (Issue) I cannot spot in the photos any actual Pilot logo. There were and still are many companies producing Pilot look-alikes, both in Japan and elsewhere, so I'd like to see such a logo or textual branding before concluding these are Pilot pens. 
2. Both pens use a plastic crown (the little hemisphere at the top), which places them in the cheaper category (the cap saves cost, when compared with the fully metallic alternative). This is consistent with earlier models, say, mid-1960s, and with some versions produced outside of Japan. 
3. Both pens have a middle part that is plated similarly to the cap. Pilot Short pens used to do this, to give the impression of a longer grip and thus suggest how large the pen would be after being capped. 
4. (Issue) Both pens have a sturdy barrel (the part away from the grip, one marine blue, the other one burgundy red). This is consistent with the Pilot telescopic pens, where the cap posts to this sturdy part securely and the grip extends when the cap is pulled (like a telescope). However, such a mechanism was typically reinforced in Pilot pens with a steel ring at the end of the grip. Such a ring does nkt appear here. 
5. (Issue) The blue pen's nib is consistent with mid-1960s nibs from Pilot. However, I cannot see enough of the fingernail nib on the burgundy red pen. I have not seen such a nib on this type of pen before; the fingernail nibs were mounted on another class of (pocket) pens, afaik. Could it be a steel nib with SUPER QUALITY engraved on it? If so, these could be issued in late-1970s or even later, possibly for the export market. 

Hope this helps. 

[Number99]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:18 PM, mke said:

Pilot has a customer support page - ask there. Use deepl.com to translate your question to Japanese. Send the link to this thread, so they can see the photos.

 

https://www.pilot.co.jp/contact/Inquiries_about_products.html

This inquiry form is for Japan only.

I have inquired with them about it.

In addition, you must select the name of the prefecture in the required input fields, which is a place name indication unique to Japan.

If you do not enter the required fields, you will not be able to proceed.

 

In other words, addresses outside of Japan cannot be entered, and if they are not entered, you will not be able to proceed to the submission page.

 

Correction.

There was an overseas option.

Therefore, I believe it is possible to send.

But they explained that they are a domestic only contact.

I am contacting Pilot Corporation again to find out why there is an option for an overseas address when it is a domestic only contact.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Number99
Added corrections.

[OldTravelingShoe]

4 hours ago, Number99 said:

There was an overseas option.

Therefore, I believe it is possible to send.

But they explained that they are a domestic only contact.

I am contacting Pilot Corporation again to find out why there is an option for an overseas address when it is a domestic only contact

Please share with us what you discover about this process, @Number99. I was already planning to identify all my Japanese vintage pens during 2023 (this year was the acquisition phase, which will end, alas, in just a few days). So lots of inquiries and hopefully they'll go to the correct Pilot team. 

[Number99]

20 hours ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

Please share with us what you discover about this process, @Number99. I was already planning to identify all my Japanese vintage pens during 2023 (this year was the acquisition phase, which will end, alas, in just a few days). So lots of inquiries and hopefully they'll go to the correct Pilot team. 

First of all, I apologize for intervening in this matter by straying from the subject of the topic.

 

I received a reply from Pilot Corporation Japan.

Unfortunately, they reiterate that the Japanese contact office does not respond to this matter.

The reason why there is an overseas option in the address input field is "for Japanese who reside overseas".

You can send it through the "contact form" we are discussing, but then they say they will turn it over to their overseas contact.

I assume that they are likely to be assigned numerical staffing for inquiries within Japan.

And as for the overseas contacts, they recommend and present the @inkstainedruth method, which I omitted in the previous post because it was already presented.

Ask your local pilot product contact.

Here is the URL I looked for earlier.

https://www.pilot.co.jp/company/english/global/

 

If these contacts do not accept the identification of vintage fountain pens, I'm sorry to say that this was never done in the first place.

 

Finally, the reply from the Pilot Corporation's contact person explained that the only reason for these is "difficulty in communication".

Also, I use the translation app deep learning myself and often "you" and "I" are interchanged or "bold omissions" occur.

My posts are always full of corrections.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Number99
Change of wording.

[OldTravelingShoe]

Got it, @Number99. So it's likely the best help is still us, the FPN community, helping each other 😄

[mke]

Some friends from US and Europe who used the contact form just wrote Tokyo as contact address and always got a helpful answer from Pilot, despite using machine translations. 

You do not need to tell them that you are living abroad. And keep your questions simple and polite.

If you cannot speak Japanese by yourself, deepl is the best alternative - and it is good. Nobody is expecting 100% accuracy. Write simple sentences in your language, than the translations are near to perfect.

[mke]

12 hours ago, Number99 said:

Unfortunately, they reiterate that the Japanese contact office does not respond to this matter.

You could have asked in your name. Hopefully, you didn't burn the resource.