Modern Pelikan M800 EF vs F Discussion

[fope]

I'm trying to find out more about the difference between a Pelikan EF and F. The pen in question is the M800. The threads I found were all 10 years old or older. Most cited inconsistencies in the nibs. There were mentions of there being no discernible difference between the EF and F and sometimes even the EF writing thicker than the F. Some have stated that the EF nibs are scratchy. Others have cited misaligned tines out-of-the-box. There were suggestions to find and use reputable nib tuners throughout.

This thread is intended to document whether that sentiment of inconsistency still holds true or whether it has since been corrected.

 

Was it just a bad time for Pelikan nibs? Have they since tightened up their manufacturing process and quality control, some ten years later? Are both nibs now distinguishable, smooth, and aligned?

Edited September 25, 2024 by fope
Grammar

[Ron Z]

Keep in mind that nibs are graded according to where they land in a range  when measured.  That means that two nibs graded the same can be very different in actual line width.  Take a look at the Sheaffer nib size pinned at the top of the repair forum for their nib standard established in the 70s..    It is quite possible to have a medium at the thin end of the range, and a fine at the wide end of the scale that are very close.    Factor in ink wetness, paper, pressure and how the nib is adjusted and the medium could end up writing finer than the fine.  That's one reason why I always use the same ink, color and paper when testing nibs that I've ground, and often test on the test paper that the client sent so that I can get a line width that matches their preferred line.

[mulrich]

I follow the same process Ron mentions, using Waterman Serenity Blue for the first time I ink a new pen. I write some quick lines on a variety of papers so I can get a good sense for how the pen works. Serenity Blue is so reliable that if there's anything weird I know there's an issue with the pen and not the ink or paper. 

 

I have writing samples following this process going back almost ten years and across scores of pens. I swore I had a couple M800s with an EF nib but it looks like the only one in my collection hasn't been used. But comparing other pens of the same model with EF or F nibs, there is a difference between an EF and an F but there are times the EF looks the same as an F. 

 

nibs.com has a comparison page looking at nib widths across many of the major manufacturers. The page also mentions that actual width can vary based on a host of factors, even with the same nib (just as Ron mentioned). 

 

https://nibs.com/pages/tipping-size-comparison

 

And touching on your other comments…

I generally find Pelikan nibs to be very good writers out of the box. It's possible to get a dud but the same is true of any pen manufacturer (probably less so with Pelikan). My Pelikan's are from a wide range of years, mostly from the decade the OP is asking about, and I can't think of any that were notably problematic. 

 

The finer the nib the more likely it is to be scratchy. That's not to say you can't find a smooth EF nib but you shouldn't expect an EF to be as smooth as a M or B nib. If you want super smooth, go for a M or broader nib. 

[Uncial]

Pelikan nibs did go through a bad parch. They seem to have significantly addressed the situation since.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Somewhere lost on my computer I have a chart that shows the pre-97 Pelikan 800 had it's very own nib width specs. Narrower than the 400/600, still wider than a Waterman.

That was back when Pelikan was narrower than Parker and the narrower Shaffer.

 

Ron has a great Sheaffer nib chart...that I often use to show, there is well less than a hair of difference between a Fat EF and a Skinny F....or any other next to each other widths.

 

There is slop/tolerance in all nibs...IMO to get one exactly in the middle of tolerance is pure luck.

Is it narrow?...good enough. Horseshoe close if lucky, if not, hand grenade close.

 

Do you absolutely need a very narrow nib?...Go Japanese. A Japanese poster said the Sailor nibs are the fat ones....so go Pilot or some other brand for spiderwebs or baby spiderwebs.

[stric75]

From my experience Pelikan’s new M800 nibs are excellent out of the box and I have several of them. Yet, they did change over the decades, i.e., they’ve gotten stiffer and that may not be up to everyone’s liking. I also find their early 14 carat nibs nicer than the later 18 carat M800 nibs. But all this is very subjective. You’ll really have to figure it out by yourself. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

It took  a combination of extreme luck, me having money and the pen popping up.

A w.Germany 800  was in top five of my wish list....

 

In back then many Germans refused to mail out side of Germany. I transmailed a stripped green  W.Germany 800 to Spain to a now passed member....who had such grand handwriting.

 

I got to play with it for three days, but took some 12 years before  I could 'cheap' into owning a W.Germany 800.

I have an 800/600 and 200 with W.German markings...and the nibs are a slight tad springier than the '91-97 ... 400-200's.

Slight, one has to have both and be looking for it.

 

I also ended up with a double ball OBB 805 that is a full half a width wider than my small W.Germany 600 OBB.

Double ball nibs are wider than tear drop.

Tear drop or factory stubbed give the better clean line.

[SnrBrn60]

So I am curious as to what decision was made by the OP. if you went with the EF, did your EF nib take some “wearing in” time or was it right out of the box? I just bought an M800 with EF nib and it is very scratchy. The retailer is telling me I need to write with it some to smooth it out.

[Bo Bo Olson]

3 hours ago, SnrBrn60 said:

The retailer is telling me I need to write with it some to smooth it out.

BS Cubed.

 

Did you pick up the pen at a store, or from being drop-kicked across the world by mailmen looking for a job as an American Football kicker, or the robot blocking those shots?

What you have is a misaligned tine. One is down (or normal), the other up.

 

You need a 40X Chinese loop...which is actually just 10X, but at @$3.50-4.00 is adequate, compared to the better glass Belicomo(sp) 10X for $35.00 or more. The chap one had a very expensive battery, That I just changed, but the wife calls for my good glass one, when looking at Hallmarks. 

 

A big magnifying glass is not good enough. I've one an inch and a half thick/ 2.7cm, and it's not strong enough. 

I don't know enough about phone cameras...

Someone else should be able to tell you. It should tell you which one is up or down.

You should plan three days and read Richard Binder's blog. He has some advice on this.

 

Once you have found out which nib tine is sitting lower than the other ...with your thumbnail between the breather hole/end of slit and the wing of the tine. With the tine that is up... Press down and hold it fully under the other tine for 2 seconds...only the count of 2.

Should take you only three tries to get the tines aligned again.

 

(In the US) Goulette (sp) packs his goods so good it could be dropped from a B-52 bomber and the package would bounce.

The pen case is a display case...only.

It is not a transport box.

 

Some folks refuse to blame the display box for the trouble hey have with mailed goods...claiming bad quality control. I talked about this with my Brick and Mortar (B&M) and he said no way. I once seen a truck unload a small wooden box (18" x a foot/12" x at least a foot high, with a Dolly, with his pens in it. There was no way to throw such a box around.

 

At the Lamy factory where I had a factory tour, the pens were shipped out in large plastic wrapped pallets to middleman. I watched each pen be checked by a little old lady, who tweeked every 10th-12th pen coming off a big paper drum, after having been sound checked. 

 

No good factory sells poor quality controlled items...not enough that so many folks would complain about their mailed and kicked around in a 'delicate' pen display box.

 

Very, very often folks have your problem.

 

Way back in the day when the post office cared, they broke the Universities's mechanical gauge. Today, when the post office is so undermanned it can't care.... I don't read of anyone's modern University's experiments actually surviving the postoffice..

 

You have misaligned tines. OK the first time is a bit of a sweat, but by time three, it's very ho hum to adjust the tines so they are straight.