Id Help Please: That Is A Sheaffer Fp, But What Exactly?

[Anderglan]

Earlier today, I've written: "I guess, later today, I shall start a thread "Id Help Please: That Is A Sheaffer FP, But What Exactly?" ..."

 

Here we go:



According to the seller, it's a

"Sheaffer Triumph Imperial 797 (...)
Model 2797, year of manufacture 1990, 14 carat gold nib medium,"

which I can't really understand; can you enlighten me, please?

 

Thank you

 

(Again: I do not think it's a Targa -- but the tag shall help to find this thread again )

[OCArt]

I think you've already identified it. A Sheaffer Triumph Imperial 797 , a similar one was listed at Peyton Street Pens.

[Anderglan]

I think you've already identified it. A Sheaffer Triumph Imperial 797 , a similar one was listed at Peyton Street Pens.

Hmmm... I can see, you must be right, dear OCArt.

I've read here:

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imperial%20Write%20Up.html

and in particular here:

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/2797%20gold%20plated.html

 

"2979" Model 2797- Sheaffer Triumph Imperial Gold Plated.

Fluted 23ct gold electroplated cap and barrel with engraving panel,with 23 carat gold electroplated trim .Fitted with a gold plated inlaid nib.

Years of production:1994-1999" (emph. mine)

 

The seller told me he got this FP as a present on the occasion of his retirement --- if his memory serves right, the pen probably was a "NOS" item then, in 1990?

[Carguy]

Hmmm... I can see, you must be right, dear OCArt.

I've read here:

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imperial%20Write%20Up.html

and in particular here:

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/2797%20gold%20plated.html

 

"2979" Model 2797- Sheaffer Triumph Imperial Gold Plated.

Fluted 23ct gold electroplated cap and barrel with engraving panel,with 23 carat gold electroplated trim .Fitted with a gold plated inlaid nib.

Years of production:1994-1999" (emph. mine)

 

The seller told me he got this FP as a present on the occasion of his retirement --- if his memory serves right, the pen probably was a "NOS" item then, in 1990?

You are correct.... I called it that and I have the exact same pen. It is a FANTASTIC writer with a great M nib.

 

Mike

[Roger W.]

The 797 and the 2797 are separate pens. The 2797 would have the long inlaid nib and not the arrow point nib. The 797 was introduced in 1976 through the early 80's. Check out https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imp%20Triumph%20Ref%20List.html. Gary's website is the best on Targas and Imperials.

 

Roger W.

[bogiesan]

I stopped wondering about the model numbers and IDs of my Sheaffers a few years ago. I just ink 'em up and enjoy them.

[Anderglan]

Thank you all very much!

 

Having received the pen now, I think I can solve the mystery:

We all did agree it's *not* a "Model 2797" of the mid-to-end 1990s.

 

But now that I have the pen in question at hands, I have to say it's also *not* "Model 797- Sheaffer Triumph Gold Plated Fluted. Fluted pattern 23ct gold plated cap and barrel ,with gold plated trim .Fitted with a 14K solid gold inlaid nib."!

I'm quite certain it's a "Model 727- Sheaffer Triumph Gold Plated. Gold plated cap and barrel with a lines and spaces pattern ,with gold plated trim .Fitted with a 14K solid gold inlaid nib." (emph. mine)

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/727%20gold%20plated.html


In 1974, the name was "IMPERIAL 727", apparently; see: https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imperial%20Write%20Up.html once again.

That's really really :CONFUSING: !

Again, thank you all for your comments!

[Carguy]

Hell now you’ve made me wonder if I have a 727 or 797 LOL!

 

Either way, it’s a great pen with a fantastic nib....

 

Mike

[Anderglan]

Hell now you’ve made me wonder if I have a 727 or 797 LOL!

 

Either way, it’s a great pen with a fantastic nib....

 

Mike

Absolutely, dear Mike!

I fell in love with SHEAFFER nibs --- and I confess I'm usually not really fond of U.S. made products -- I'm an evil spoiled highbrow European a... let's say I'm not easily impressed!

[BaronWulfraed]

Hell now you’ve made me wonder if I have a 727 or 797 LOL!

 

Well, that should be easy to tell -- based upon the (large) photos at the reference site...

 

727 has narrow, almost square cut, lines in a 3-lines, no-lines, 3-lines, ... pattern

797 has somewhat wider, rounded grooves, evenly distributed around the barrel

 

2797 has the 727 interrupted lines pattern, but also has PFM style squared ends to the cap and barrel.

 

[Carguy]

Well, that should be easy to tell -- based upon the (large) photos at the reference site...

 

727 has narrow, almost square cut, lines in a 3-lines, no-lines, 3-lines, ... pattern

797 has somewhat wider, rounded grooves, evenly distributed around the barrel

 

2797 has the 727 interrupted lines pattern, but also has PFM style squared ends to the cap and barrel.

 

I guess I never really thought about it that hard.....

 

I do in fact have the 797 but it also has an engraving panel on it.

 

Mike

[Anderglan]

I think you've already identified it. A Sheaffer Triumph Imperial 797 , a similar one was listed at Peyton Street Pens.

Now that's actually funny: the "797" sticker on the peytonstreetpens-FP is probably wrong -- the pen there clearly shows the characteristics of a "727": interrupted lines pattern.

 

... I guess even the SHEAFFER's employees were sometimes confused!

[terim]

The 797 and the 2797 are separate pens. The 2797 would have the long inlaid nib and not the arrow point nib. The 797 was introduced in 1976 through the early 80's. Check out https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imp%20Triumph%20Ref%20List.html. Gary's website is the best on Targas and Imperials.

 

Roger W.

 

Unlike the earlier long diamond inlaid nibs from the 1970s, the nibs from the 1990s Triumph Imperial line were either steel or gold plated. I don't believe there were any solid gold nibs in this line. The nibs are all interchangeable, to the best of my knowledge, between the 1970s and 1990s pens.

[WLSpec]

That's a very nice pen you've got there! Enjoy it

[Anderglan]

 

Unlike the earlier long diamond inlaid nibs from the 1970s, the nibs from the 1990s Triumph Imperial line were either steel or gold plated. I don't believe there were any solid gold nibs in this line. The nibs are all interchangeable, to the best of my knowledge, between the 1970s and 1990s pens.

 

Thank you, in fact this interchangeability is one of the things that make me particularly happy

That's a very nice pen you've got there! Enjoy it

Thank you, I do

 

 

And Now for Something Completely Different (I guess) -- what kind of Frankenpen did I buy here?

 

 

Thank you again

[BaronWulfraed]

Unfortunately, my best visual source doesn't have data for the Triumph nibbed pens. The barrel looks a bit thin or I'd think a Triumph nib variant of the 444 (I have what looks like the 727, except it has a 14K Triumph nib) https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imp%20Triumph%20Ref%20List.html But that cap isn't brushed chrome and lacks the lines of the Bright Chrome versions (not to mention that apparent indentation on the mid-line of the clip). Possibly a cap from a "Stylist" line.

[Anderglan]

Unfortunately, my best visual source doesn't have data for the Triumph nibbed pens. The barrel looks a bit thin or I'd think a Triumph nib variant of the 444 (I have what looks like the 727, except it has a 14K Triumph nib) https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imp%20Triumph%20Ref%20List.html But that cap isn't brushed chrome and lacks the lines of the Bright Chrome versions (not to mention that apparent indentation on the mid-line of the clip). Possibly a cap from a "Stylist" line.

Thank you

To narrow the search a bit down, the barrel could be:

-- most likely I presume:

Model 444X- Sheaffer Triumph Brushed Chrome G.T. Brushed chrome cap and barrel (...)

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/444X%20Chrome%20G.T.html

https://www.peytonstreetpens.com/sheaffer/imperials/sheaffer-444x-fountain-pens-brushed-chrome-w-gold-clip-triumph-nibs-new-old-stock.html

-- or, around 1974:

Model 444XG- Sheaffer Triumph Brushed Chrome G.T. Brushed chrome cap and barrel (...)

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/444XG%20Chrome%20G.T.html

-- or, between 1983 and 1988:

Model 444- Sheaffer Triumph Brushed Chrome C.T. Brushed chrome cap and barrel (...)

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/444%20Chrome%20C.T.html

-- or, around 1994:

Model 2444- Sheaffer Triumph Imperial Chrome C.T. Brushed chrome cap and barrel ,with chrome plated trim (...)

https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/2444%20Chrome%20C.T.html

 

The cap is still puzzling; perhaps the pictures aren't that good, but did they make caps without any trace of a white dot? Or is it perhaps a completely foreign cap?

[BaronWulfraed]

I thought lack of a white dot was common for the lower end pens (which excludes the Imperial line of the 70s since even a 440 steel/plastic model had it) -- the types found in blister packs hanging on hooks in a various pharmacies and office supply stores. Originally it signalled a pen with a lifetime warranty. These days -- with ownership now in Cross hands -- anything goes*.

 

However, I do not know of such a (lower end) pen in a size that would fit a 70s imperial fountain pen. I believe capped rollerballs were slimmer.

 

NOTE: NOT a 2444 -- the 2444 has squared ends on the barrel and cap, similar to the PFM and early 60s Imperials.

 

 

 

* The current Sheaffer web site needs to study their own history...

 

 

1991

• The Triumph conical style nib is created and the new line included ballpoint and rollerball pens.

 

Really? 1991? My 727 variant goes back to ~1971, and I have a snorkel desk pen, both with Triumph nibs.

Edited April 20, 2020 by BaronWulfraed

[Anderglan]

I thought lack of a white dot was common for the lower end pens (which excludes the Imperial line of the 70s since even a 440 steel/plastic model had it) -- the types found in blister packs hanging on hooks in a various pharmacies and office supply stores. Originally it signalled a pen with a lifetime warranty. These days -- with ownership now in Cross hands -- anything goes*.

 

However, I do not know of such a (lower end) pen in a size that would fit a 70s imperial fountain pen. I believe capped rollerballs were slimmer.

 

NOTE: NOT a 2444 -- the 2444 has squared ends on the barrel and cap, similar to the PFM and early 60s Imperials.

 

 

 

* The current Sheaffer web site needs to study their own history...

 

 

Really? 1991? My 727 variant goes back to ~1971, and I have a snorkel desk pen, both with Triumph nibs.

Thank you, dear BaronWulfraed

 

Meanwhile I did receive the new Franken-Sheaffer. It came from London, by the way. Royal Mail is really quick, despite the current situation worldwide, and so is Austria's post -- great job. --- Now. The Pen. First impression:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MXcFATTdtM

 

What do I mean by this? --- To me, it looks and feels and even writes like a sci-fi movie prop ... I'll add more the next days

[terim]

There's also the 440 pens from the Stylist era, they had the Triumph nib too.