Dating Montblanc 146 (Legrand)

[Bo Bo Olson]

Can not see any stripes, on the clear window......but thanks any way, 70-90's for gray & 80's works close enough for horseshoes.

In unless the '90's 146's are the same as the '70's-90 ones... both of mine are the same outside the ink window.

[Michael R.]

19 hours ago, sansenri said:

 

the solid blue window is 73-81

the solid grey window is 78-90

the clear window which however has grey stripes is from 91 onward

 

(clearly I'm taking for granted the information in the table, which is not 100% certain)

 

 

blue ink windows are pre 1973. 1973 until 1990s are all solid grey but came with a variety of other different features.

 

cheers

 

Michael

[sansenri]

23 hours ago, Michael R. said:

blue ink windows are pre 1973. 1973 until 1990s are all solid grey but came with a variety of other different features.

 

cheers

 

Michael

 

I'm not too familiar with blue windows in 146s...
so how do I interpret this part in the bold selection?

 

[sansenri]

On 7/21/2021 at 2:41 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

Can not see any stripes, on the clear window......but thanks any way, 70-90's for gray & 80's works close enough for horseshoes.

In unless the '90's 146's are the same as the '70's-90 ones... both of mine are the same outside the ink window.

It's a matter of defining what is a clear window...

any photo Bo Bo?

The grey clear (solid, no stripes) window is a very faint grey, that's approx in the 80s, if I understand correctly

this is the grey window in my 146 (don't be fooled by the blue... that's royal blue...)

 

[Michael R.]

1 hour ago, sansenri said:

 

I'm not too familiar with blue windows in 146s...
so how do I interpret this part in the bold selection?

 

from my observations, catalogue data, … that chart has many flaws and is not correct on some points.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[NumberSix]

How about this one, with a monocolor 14C? I don't even see that option on the chart. 

 

It has a solid blue window, which should date it to the 70's or very early 80's, per the chart. Is it possible that around 1977-78, some mono 14C nibs were issued?

 

[AcLondon]

Monotone 14c look like early 70s to early 80s. Not much else to go on to narrow it down. Lovely nib - one of my favourites.

[Bo Bo Olson]

3 hours ago, sansenri said:

window is a very faint grey,

One is gray, the other looks clear, with no lines. no faint gray.

I take the worlds worst photos.

Will load up the old camera and or have my wife use her handi/cell phone.

Will try to make a good clear picture tomorrow.

[sansenri]

2 hours ago, Michael R. said:

from my observations, catalogue data, … that chart has many flaws and is not correct on some points.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

In fact I have read your related thread Michael, however it would be really great if you could come up with some sort of similar system to help date the 146 (I am aware that even with more precise data it's difficult as there seem to be quite a lot of exceptions...).

In my previous message I did state that my interpretation was taking for granted the correctness of the chart, which is not in fact certain...
 

[sansenri]

2 hours ago, NumberSix said:

How about this one, with a monocolor 14C? I don't even see that option on the chart. 

 

It has a solid blue window, which should date it to the 70's or very early 80's, per the chart. Is it possible that around 1977-78, some mono 14C nibs were issued?

 

 

good point... goes to show there are more options to that chart...

[sansenri]

35 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

One is gray, the other looks clear, with no lines. no faint gray.

I take the worlds worst photos.

Will load up the old camera and or have my wife use her handi/cell phone.

Will try to make a good clear picture tomorrow.

 

no worries, cell phones take pretty good pictures nowadays, we don't need an artistic one 

[sansenri]

7 minutes ago, sansenri said:

In fact I have read your related thread Michael, however it would be really great if you could come up with some sort of similar system to help date the 146 (I am aware that even with more precise data it's difficult as there seem to be quite a lot of exceptions...).

In my previous message I did state that my interpretation was taking for granted the correctness of the chart, which is not in fact certain...
 

 

 

PS, I've just re-read your comment from 2018...

 

"One topic which always gets me thinking is the transitional 146 with the blue ink window.
I suspect that it was made in the 60s already as it shows many features which other models from the 60s share.

Also the first regular production 146 (monotone nib and grey ink window) is already shown in the a 1973 catalog/price list.

All celluloid pens and earlier modern pens (> 1970s) I've handled had a two piece barrel construction (section and barrel on celluloid models; section, barrel and collar on early resin models). I need to check on current models and on the transitional models. They may show a different construction.

Also very early resin pens (grey ink window) with 14C (not 14K!) monotone nibs are missing in the chart. Those pens hat a more straight collar as well (not as angled as on later models)."

 

So doubts had already been raised...

It would be nice to have a new summary, but I can see it's really complex. Thanks

 

[Michael R.]

Yes, very complex. I also had to revise some of my opinions later already myself!

 

e.g. there are single barrel construction 146 from the beginning of the 70s.

 

I‘m trying to collect as much information and versions and document them in my flickr. But still big gaps missing reliable sources and proof.

 

cheers

 

Michael

[Bo Bo Olson]

Clear ink window...in my eyes.....and as said the world's worst photos.

 

Looks clear not the blue tinge shown.

Willing to accept invisible blue I guess...but the photo's show more blue than I see.

[sansenri]

mhm, yes, difficult to judge when out of focus.

A few tips for a good picture especially using a phone

don't try to get too close to the pen, the phone lens may not be able to focus so close

also, put the pen down on the white paper (otherwise the silly autofocus will focus the background and not the pen)

white paper background is good to see the real colour, no lines even better, coloured backgrounds will false the colour of the window (the wooden top is no good)

take the photo in a very well lit place in day light (best not to take the photo with artificial lighting, this also modifies the resulting colour)

the best place is on a window sill in front of a large window, in the shade (sunshine also alters colours)

 

give it another try!

[Bo Bo Olson]

White paper, no blue lines.....my wife's handi....and then fiddle around until I can get it into my computer.....we survived for ages with out one of those talking camera's.

 

Yep technology sure has gone down hill since one went to the wall, picked up the horn and cranked the box.....in you wanted to be In, one used the brand new word telling the world you used one of those contraptions often, saying into the speaker tube, "Hello Mable, give me Alice." Now one has to remember numbers!!!

[sansenri]

Bo Bo, any kids around to give you a hand?... most of the time technology has gone beyond our capability to keep pace...

 

cell phones can store (remember) numbers since they were invented, and show you the name of Alice or Mable instead ...

 

in any case I can still remember my phone number of when I was a kid, today, when people ask me, I often have to look mine up...

 

on the other hand, the rules for taking a good photo have not changed, take your time, we're in no hurry

[RBullCZ]

On 7/22/2021 at 10:58 PM, NumberSix said:

How about this one, with a monocolor 14C? I don't even see that option on the chart. 

 

It has a solid blue window, which should date it to the 70's or very early 80's, per the chart. Is it possible that around 1977-78, some mono 14C nibs were issued?

 

I also have a monotone blue ink window 146 but mine does not have the "collar" of the nib unit. The feed is one piece with grooved front.

[mike.f]

I have a Bordeaux 146 in transit to me, hopefully arriving Monday. I'm guessing based on the photos that it is an early 90s, it has Meisterstuck No 146 on the band but has Germany on the clip.

[mike.f]

On 7/23/2021 at 4:10 PM, mike.f said:

I have a Bordeaux 146 in transit to me, hopefully arriving Monday. I'm guessing based on the photos that it is an early 90s, it has Meisterstuck No 146 on the band but has Germany on the clip.

 

Length is 142 so 91 through 94. To narrow it even further, based on the spreadsheet, I need to know if it's a two piece barrel or one piece, searching the site had some pics but the links are old.

 

The other piece of into is nib hole configuration (no idea what that is). If anyone has some tips I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thanks!