24K Gold/titanium Alloy

February 4, 2017

Nibs are traditionally made of gold. But the gold is typically alloyed to give it more springiness. Experts like Richard Binder and John Mottishaw usually state that the best nib alloy is 14K gold, which is, in fact, only 58% gold. This makes the nib more springy than a purer-gold nib... but there's a price, in that the nib is now more susceptible to corrosion than, say, a 21K gold nib. Gold may be a noble metal, but the copper that alloys it down to 14K is not.

I just stumbled over an interesting tidbit in Wikipedia, on its page for Titanium: if you alloy gold with a very small amount of titanium -- 1% titanium, which means the material is still considered 24K gold -- you get an alloy which is as hard as 14K gold! But, of course, unlike 14K gold, the 24K Au/Ti alloy is almost entirely gold, so it ought to be much more resistant to corrosion and time. And the remaining 1% is pretty resistant to corrosion, itself.

Furthermore, as the wikipedia entry points out, Au/Ti alloy is the exact same material that Tony Stark uses for the Iron Man suit, so that seems like the final word on the material's cool factor.

Pure titanium is the current trendy material for nibs. But I'd love to see nibs made of 24K Au/Ti alloy. The wikipedia article seems to indicate that they might be fantastic.

Why doesn't Sailor do this? They're obviously a bunch of engineering nerds who have a love affair with (1) unusual nibs and (2) high-carat gold.

E.K.

P.S. Having more or less invited it, I'd like to request, pre-emptively, that this thread not diverge off into a detailed investigation of how suitable Vibranium would be as a nib material. Even when in a 99%/1% alloy with Adamantium. Marvel Universe nibs can be discussed in a separate thread.

OK, they would, of course, rock.

February 4, 2017

This sounds interesting -- thanks for pointing it out. Here's an article on the material, which is known as "990 gold":

https://www.saimm.co.za/Journal/v089n06p173.pdf

I wonder whether there are any considerations that would render the alloy unsuitable for nibs? It has to be produced in an evacuated furnace, but if it's already in use for jewelry, there should be sources of ready-made alloy available to nib manufacturers. And there's some indication (to me) in the article's section on "Soldering and Welding" that welding (e.g. at the boundary between nib and tipping material) may weaken the material... but since companies like Bock seem to have solved the problems encountered in the Parker T1, that might not be a problem.

Coolness factor?

"The gold is melted and heated to 1300°C, and a
titanium block (or rods) with a mass of 1/99 of that
of the gold and a purity of at least 99,7 per cent is
dropped into the melt. A flash of light, which is not
understood, accompanies the dissolution process..."

Edited February 4, 2017 by Tweel

February 4, 2017

Pure titanium (which is what "24k titanium" implies) is not used for much of anything. A very common alloy for titanium is Ti-6Al-4V, which gives it the properties most needed (high strength to weight ratio, good corrosion resistance).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti-6Al-4V

However, this is the first I've heard of this "990" gold alloy. Sounds very interesting. Pen companies will be too conservative in offering new materials and will be slow to adapt new nib materials until there is a demand for them from customers. I expect there is a costly period of development needed to iron out all the details of manufacturing before nibs made of any new alloy can be put into production.

Thanks for bring this to our attention and thanks to both of your for the links.

February 4, 2017

in that the nib is now more susceptible to corrosion than, say, a 21K gold nib. Gold may be a noble metal, but the copper that alloys it down to 14K is not.

I don't have any 21 K nibs in they are known to bend and stay bend. I had no desire to go look for old cheap Japanese Sailor pens.

I do have a couple 18 K nibs...a Lamy Persona and a MB Woolf.

My older MB's are all 14 K....three of the four vintage ones are semi/maxi-semi-flex.

I do have enough 14 K nibs of other pen companies and see no advantage of corrosion resistance than what 14 K offers.

It might be the old 10 K nibs from before 1893-teens*** could have shown corrosion. It might well have been. Otherwise the pen companies would have stayed with the cheaper 10 K nibs.

**** 1894-5 Montgomery Ward and 1902 Sears Catalogs....list 10 K gold nibs. Something I've not seen in other info.

However in 14 K don't corrode that one can notice....and I'd bet if I let an 18 or 21 K pen sit as long; a couple generations in the back of a drawer as some of my 14 K pens...they too might have to be wiped with a cleaning cloth.

After that they are shinny again.

Rant on market philosophy removed. The truth has many flavors...mostly bitter.

Bock is or has made titanium nibs for companies interesting in teasing the animals.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

February 5, 2017

It might be the old 10 K nibs from before 1893-teens*** could have shown corrosion. It might well have been. Otherwise the pen companies would have stayed with the cheaper 10 K nibs.
**** 1894-5 Montgomery Ward and 1902 Sears Catalogs....list 10 K gold nibs. Something I've not seen in other info.

However in 14 K don't corrode that one can notice....and I'd bet if I let an 18 or 21 K pen sit as long; a couple generations in the back of a drawer as some of my 14 K pens...they too might have to be wiped with a cleaning cloth.
After that they are shinny again.

Hi Bo Bo --

I think corrosion can lead to more significant problems than a dull surface. Stress corrosion cracking, for example. A gold alloy nib can be nice and shiny -- and full of microscopic cracks. Have you ever knocked a vintage nib out of its section, only to discover that the tail is split, or in fragments? Or just plain corrosive rot -- you knock out that nib and find that the tail has been eaten away.

As an aside, there are more modern examples of nibs made of lower-karat gold. Some Heroes and Parker "45"s have 10K and 12K nibs, for instance.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Tweel

February 5, 2017

I must admit....my gold 14 K nibs all work. A couple of steel nibs from the '30's I took apart had corrosion but not all...that was a bit of a surprise.

I have to say all my semi or maxi-semi-flex nibs that work very well be they steel or gold (Only one Osmia steel war nib and two Reform war nibs have problems.

. But I don't take pens apart that work....and even though I have the repair books have only an interest in re-corking some time. It's not nib problems I have but old cork...or ancient plastic gasket.

My desk unfortunately is full of the western I'm writing...I'm a messy. When I get to cutting, I'll have my desk clean enough to do some repair.

grumble...grumble ...................now I got to worry about my vintage gold nibs falling apart. ...

February 6, 2017

Danitrio actually had a 24kt nib available for several years. It was on their Yokozuna model, with a #50-size nib -- the same size of the Namiki Emperor nib. I don't think Danitrio ever said what the exact alloy of the nib was but I suspect the titanium-gold alloy is one of the few, if not the only, 24kt alloy that could be made into a useable nib.

The Yokozuna is still available but Danitrio now uses a #50-size 18kt nib.

Here are some threads, if you want to see photos.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/83181-gojira-godzilla-or-yokozunawhatever-you-call-it/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/95710-danitrios-top-of-the-line/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/66585-fathers-day-weekend-with-gojira/