Is It Really Your Handwriting?

[therecorder]

I often feel that writing with my stub or cursive italic pens is cheating; that the produced handwriting is not mine and "says" nothing about me, except (perhaps) that I am attempting to be something/someone I am not, that I am a cheater. I also often feel that using these nibs are me taking the easy way out. Instead of spending the time and effort to train my hand to write nicely, I use an easier route. I guess these are kind of strange feelings/thoughts for someone 67 years old. Perhaps it's just the shoulda, woulda, coulda, coming out in my winter years.

Any thoughts?

[MKB]

Let not this thought about what's valid ruin your fun. Break it down for what it is and let go.

[Notgatherox]

Why not? It did come from your own hand after all.

 

And like MKB said above: don't let it ruin your fun. Using FPs should be an enjoyable and pleasurable pastime.

 

Have fun, and write on.

 

 

 

~Epic

[Pjotr]

Every time i look at my handwriting I wonder if it's been written by a Neanderthal. There's no way I could even attempt an Italic or stub nib. Consider yourself lucky!

[therecorder]

Thanks to the three of you for attempting to help me feel better. However, I think I should have been more specific about my question. I asked (at the end), "Any thoughts?" What I should have asked is:

 

Any thoughts about whether using a stub or cursive Italic is cheating, and a lazy man/woman's way of handwriting?

[Ted F]

If it's cheating to use stubs or italics then the solution would be to have everyone just use M (medium). Anything else would be cheating; no BBs, no XFs, just Ms. I like nib chaos. The more choices the better.

[therecorder]

 

If it's cheating to use stubs or italics then the solution would be to have everyone just use M (medium). Anything else would be cheating; no BBs, no XFs, just Ms. I like nib chaos. The more choices the better.

In Philadelphia, in the 1950's, in public school, I learned cursive using a #2 pencil, on special lined paper that the school supplied. This was the way all public school students learned to write in cursive. Students were not permitted to learn with alternative writing instruments or paper. Once we learned, once our handwriting was established, only then were we permitted to use alternative tools. Using alternative tools, at that point, was not to make our handwriting different, but to permit us some freedom on how we used our handwriting. I can even remember that in 9th grade, in my freshman year of high school, one of my teachers telling us to use a medium point pen, with blue ink, on regular lined loose-leaf paper, for all our "hand-in" work, because he was not willing to go blind reading our papers.

 

In reality, using various size nibs is a means of displaying the same handwriting, but in different sizes or intensities. They are not designed to change one's handwriting.

[AAAndrew]

It seems, and please forgive me if I'm misinterpreting, that your concern is that one's writing tends to look "better" when writing with a stub nib even if it isn't in full compliance with the "standard" forms. Thus you're "cheating" by having interesting writing even when you aren't following the "rules." and you can't make it look like a copy book.

 

There's a very big difference between the goal of everyone's handwriting looking the same (the goal of penmenship teachers) and the goal of developing your own, distinctive, and yet legible, handwriting style.

 

As someone who wrote in calligraphic styles, and even developed his own form of italic (not to say it's very good, but it is mine)while at the same time being incapable of writing in cursive, now that I've begun to re-learn cursive, I find myself not constrained by rules, but instead I feel free to take the letter forms and while keeping them (hopefully) legible, adapt them to how I feel like writing. Calligraphy has many types of standard letter forms, each with a different feel and aesthetic sensibility. I guess I've just carried that over to my cursive writing and now I'm in the process of developing my own style and combination of letter forms.

 

And in this approach, it's clear to me that different types of nibs result in slightly different effects. If you think of your handwriting as more than type, more than a font, but as a means of expressing yourself through words and visual appeal, then you may be more comfortable using stubs, extra-fines, BBB and other nibs. And so I would challenge your assertion that different size nibs are meant to only display "the same handwriting, but in different sizes or intensities." Different sizes of even the same kind of calligraphy nib can result in very different effects. And when you change from a cut nib to a round nib, you change even more so, As you would expect when you move from a "round" nib point on a fine or medium, to a flatter nib on a stub or italic.

 

So, use stub nibs. Use fine, medium, and even broad. Find your own style with each type and enjoy new ways of expressing yourself.

 

Those are my thoughts. For whatever they're worth.

[the_gasman]

Any attempt to enhance the aesthetic appeal of our endeavours is to be applauded. So using different nibs is no different from using difference inks, in different colours, and on paper with varied colour and texture.

 

Sophia Loren didn't become a cheat by wearing cosmetics!

[How sad that no contemporary beauties sprang to mind]

 

Cheers,

David.

[therecorder]

AAAndrew...

 

Your reply got my intellectual juices churning... Read this review... (I just ordered the book from Amazon - Only $10 for the book, but $25 for the cheapest shipping, so I won't get it for at least a month.)

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/historybookreviews/10304108/The-Golden-Thread-the-Story-of-Writing-by-Ewan-Clayton-review.html

[therecorder]

 

 

Any attempt to enhance the aesthetic appeal of our endeavours is to be applauded. So using different nibs is no different from using difference inks, in different colours, and on paper with varied colour and texture.

Sophia Loren didn't become a cheat by wearing cosmetics!
[How sad that no contemporary beauties sprang to mind]

Cheers,
David.

To some extent, we are all performers... This is especially true of actors. They are trained to act like someone they are not. It isn't cheating when they are on the stage or the screen, or even in public. But suppose they "acted" a part while interacting with their family or friends. Wouldn't this be cheating? Aren't we all, to some extent, guilty of this?

[the_gasman]

To some extent, we are all performers... This is especially true of actors. They are trained to act like someone they are not. It isn't cheating when they are on the stage or the screen, or even in public. But suppose they "acted" a part while interacting with their family or friends. Wouldn't this be cheating? Aren't we all, to some extent, guilty of this?

I'm lucky enough to live in a city that boasts Durham cathedral, an ancient and beautiful structure. It puts on a different aspect with every season, time of day, cloud formation, and change of weather. It remains the same cathedral.

 

The personality that I present changes depending whether I'm at a football game, having a pint with male pals at the pub, disciplining the kids, or advising patients at work. I'm not cheating, just displaying context-specific behaviour.

 

Why the hang-up with cheating? Just get your pen out and JGOWI!

 

Cheer, David.

[therecorder]

the_gasman...

 

I don't have a hang-up. I have a reaction to my writing. I have recorded my thoughts for most of my adult life. I continue to do so, with and without stubs and cursive italics. It's just that recently, when I look at my stub and cursive italic writing, I sort of feel like I'm not looking at my writing, I'm looking at what I wish was my writing.

[AAAndrew]

Excellent recommendation. I'm going to have to get that book.

 

My interest in calligraphy, and also handwriting, as an expression of oneself, is also colored by my studies of Chinese art. (I will forever be "all but dissertation" in ancient Chinese art) In traditional Chinese culture, calligraphy was considered the highest of the art forms. Next was poetry, then painting. It was believed that one could read the full character of someone by reading their calligraphy. The nature of ink on paper or silk (or earlier, on bamboo strips) means that you can actually trace the movement of the brush and ink. An informed observer can mentally recreate the performance and understand just where the stroke was started, where the pressure was hard or soft, the stroke fast or slow. This nature of the medium led my Chinese brush painting teacher to call Chinese (and traditional Japanese and Korean) painting and calligraphy "performance art."

 

Even into recent times, a certain amount of judgement of ones character is made of people based on their handwriting in East Asian countries. In the Western countries we may judge your education and training, but rarely is there a strong judge of your character based on your writing.

 

Performance does not necessarily equal falsity, or cheating. Performance can also mean expression of a truer part of yourself. Acting does involve becoming someone or something you're not. Painting, music and other arts are less about "hiding" your true self, but rather to express your beliefs, awareness or inspiration of the human condition. It is expression and exposure, not hiding.

 

My wife has been a dancer and then teacher and choreographer for over 40 years. (they start young) While you may be dancing the steps of another, while you may be inhabiting the body of a swan, or a prince, or a mechanical doll, you're also finding a way to bring yourself into the movement and make it your own. You're always looking to bring yourself into the performance.

 

While I hesitate to compare my meager scrapings on paper with the performance and expression of an artist, I do think the impulse is somewhat the same. When a musician plays a composed piece, she follows the notes, but using inflection, timing and other skills to make it her own expression of the artistic impulse. When I write words on a page, especially if they are significant words, like a letter to a dear friend, I use the words and letters which communicate my meaning, but I use the style of writing as part of the expression of what I'm trying to communicate. Is it fast and dynamic? Is is slow and deliberate? Is it elegant and refined, or full of character and texture? These are impacted by pen type, ink color, paper, and the performance of the writing. And each is appropriate for different contexts.

 

And yet each of these different forms of the same words are still me. If I tried to copy someone's handwriting, then I may be cheating, trying to be someone else. But if I use my writing as a means of expressing myself, even if it looks "better" because I'm using a stub nib rather than a flexible copperplate nib, that's still me and no cheating needed. It's just using another tool to express something else about me.

 

Andrew

[therecorder]

Andrew...

 

Interesting and stimulating reply. But, it is your last sentence that most affects me, "It's just using another tool to express something else about me." Ask yourself, if you wrote a note to your wife, with a medium nib, that said, "I'm very concerned about last night's disagreement," would her reaction be the same had you written it with a stub nib? Which note would best relate your feelings to your wife? To yourself?

But, I fear this thread has turned into a philosophical discussion, and that Derrida, were he alive and reading this thread, would think us all fools.

[knarflj]

No, I don't think you're cheating. I can think of at least three reasons why not:

 

1. Choosing a nib is like choosing your tone of voice. How you say a thing often matters as much as what you say.

 

2. Some scripts were intended to have line variation; italic writing in particular is meant to be written with an italic nib. If you use a nib with line variation to execute one of those scripts, you're just submitting yourself to the medium you're working in; that's humility, not cheating.

 

3. I've only just acquired a couple of italic nibs recently, and I will tell you that they show up the deficiencies of my hand much more clearly than my round nibs. If you can write elegantly - or even just consistently - with an italic nib, you are so far from cheating that you are actually doing it the hard way, as far as I'm concerned.

[AAAndrew]

 

"But, I fear this thread has turned into a philosophical discussion, and that Derrida, were he alive and reading this thread, would think us all fools."

As Bacon said, "Silence is the virtue of fools." Unfortunately I'm not terribly virtuous. I already know myself for a fool, so Derrida has nothing to teach me there.

 

And as Yoda would say, "A fun thread it has been."

 

[therecorder]

Andrew...

 

Perhaps I should attempt to use my stubbed cursive as some kind of cipher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon%27s_cipher)

[Sailor Kenshin]

the_gasman...

 

I don't have a hang-up. I have a reaction to my writing. I have recorded my thoughts for most of my adult life. I continue to do so, with and without stubs and cursive italics. It's just that recently, when I look at my stub and cursive italic writing, I sort of feel like I'm not looking at my writing, I'm looking at what I wish was my writing.

 

You say that like it's a BAD thing.

[therecorder]

You say that like it's a BAD thing.

As is often the case, as I have gotten "up there" in years, I have found myself wishing that a lot of things that are, were different. Perhaps this isn't BAD, but I do think it's kind of SAD.

Edited May 22, 2015 by therecorder