Why Quink Permanent Blue Has "permanent" In Its Name!

[kumowoon1025]

Hi everyone!

 

I've been lurking around FPN for a while now, and this is my first post!

 

I wanted to share something interesting about the Quink Permanent Blue. I couldn't find any green Quink anywhere, so I tried calling Parker to see if they stocked it, or could point me to a retailer that did. They didn't and told me all they had was black and permanent blue.

 

I had always wondered why permanent blue had "permanent" in its name when it is not waterproof at all, and fades fairly easily. So I asked them, and got an interesting answer.

 

Apparently the "permanent" Quinks have metal incorporated into them that essentially gets embedded into the paper. When the ink fades, or is rendered illegible due to water or whatnot, you can get what was originally written recovered professionally.

 

Did anybody know about this?!?! I've used Quink as my everyday writing ink for ages, and had no idea. I was mindblower. Is this a feature found in any other inks?? Very interesting, or at least IMHO.

[arcadeflow]

I am not sure this is true. To me, they call it permanent as opposed to the "washable" version. It means one stains, the other doesn't. Any non-washable ink should be able to stain things better, so, it has the better ability to stay on paper. Some brands like Montblanc use the term when they include some iron gall content, that is probably what you were told about. Iron gall makes the ink impossible to remove with water, but it won't retain all its colors. Permanency varies between brands, when you want some fountain pen ink to be permanent you are usually talking about either iron gall or micro-pigments, the later is what the Japanese usually prefer. There are other components that make ink stain paper better, some Noodler's ink like Noodler's Black carry them, I am not sure what they are called. Some people are afraid of all these elements because they might stain or clog pens.

[Mesu]

Interesting explanation from Parker.

 

Apparently the "permanent" Quinks have metal incorporated into them that essentially gets embedded into the paper. When the ink fades, or is rendered illegible due to water or whatnot, you can get what was originally written recovered professionally.

 

I'd prefer a permanent ink which is water and fade resistant instead of it fading too easily and having to get it recovered professionally.

[Freddy]

1.Hi everyone!

 

1a.I've been lurking around FPN for a while now, and this is my first post!

 

2.I wanted to share something interesting about the Quink Permanent Blue. I couldn't find any green Quink anywhere, so I tried calling Parker to see if they stocked it, or could point me to a retailer that did. They didn't and told me all they had was black and permanent blue.

 

3.I had always wondered why permanent blue had "permanent" in its name when it is not waterproof at all, and fades fairly easily. So I asked them, and got an interesting answer.

 

3a.Apparently the "permanent" Quinks have " incopmretalorated into them that essentially gets embedded into the paper."When the ink fades, or is rendered illegible due to water or whatnot, you can get what was originally written recovered professionally.

 

Did anybody know about this?!?! I've used Quink as my everyday writing ink for ages, and had no idea. I was mindblower. Is this a feature found in any other inks?? Very interesting, or at least IMHO.

 

 

1/1a. Welcome Aboard! Put your feet up and enjoy your time here.

New York State..what part do you reside...................................

2. Pick up old bottle of Quink Green..................................................

3/3a. In the matter of Quink and Washable / Permanent.

Has to do with how they wash out of my /your clothin'..

nothin' to do with permanency on your / my paper.

" metal incorpporated into them that essentially gets embedded into the paper."When the ink fades, or is rendered illegible due to water or whatnot, you can get what was originally written recovered professionally."

Do you have anything that would corroborate this statement?

Fred

[welch]

Strange answer, although

 

- Sheaffer used to have a magic ingredient -- RC-35 -- that (supposedly) worked the way Parker's rep says Permanent Blue works.

 

- Parker Washable Blue fades as it dries. Permanent Blue is not available in the US except by special order, and then only to individuals.

 

- Kids in the '50s and '60s were "encouraged" (by our parents) to use washable ink. Grownups all had stories of ink bottles that tipped or pens that leaked...leaving ruined shirts and pants etc. The writing instrument industry evolved toward cleaner and easier methods of filling a pen. Sheaffer's slogan for the Snorkel was "It takes the dunk out of filling". That was a big advantage ballpoints had over fountain pens, and a reason why companies developed the ink cartridge.

 

- My guess: Quink Permanent Blue is descended, by reformulation, from the classic Quink Royal Blue from the 1930s - '60s. Quink Blue was as durable as anyone would want...stubborn. It will wash out of clothing if you are persistant, but it requires work and several tries. Also had Solv-X, an ingredient that cleaned your pen as it wrote. Look at the advertisements on EBay: the art deco bottles and the WW2 pitch. (Because rubber is a scarce war-resource, protect your pen by filling with Quink "with Solv-X").

 

- Try "vintage" Quink and see the difference. First, sniff it: Solv-X had a smell that says "ink" to me. About ten or fifteen years ago, Parker was ordered to remove "Solv-X" because the occupational health and safety groups in the US and the EU found it dangerous to people making the ink.

 

- The current idea of "bulletproof" is beyond what people wanted in the "olden dayes" before ballpoints, inexpensive typewriters, and then word-processing programs.

[kumowoon1025]

I am not sure this is true. To me, they call it permanent as opposed to the "washable" version. It means one stains, the other doesn't. Any non-washable ink should be able to stain things better, so, it has the better ability to stay on paper. Some brands like Montblanc use the term when they include some iron gall content, that is probably what you were told about. Iron gall makes the ink impossible to remove with water, but it won't retain all its colors. Permanency varies between brands, when you want some fountain pen ink to be permanent you are usually talking about either iron gall or micro-pigments, the later is what the Japanese usually prefer. There are other components that make ink stain paper better, some Noodler's ink like Noodler's Black carry them, I am not sure what they are called. Some people are afraid of all these elements because they might stain or clog pens.

You're right, permanent does seem to imply that it is not washable as opposed to their washable blue product. Maybe she was talking about the ink being an iron gall ink, I've never heard of it being able to be recovered because of the iron gall content though.

 

Interesting explanation from Parker.

 

 

I'd prefer a permanent ink which is water and fade resistant instead of it fading too easily and having to get it recovered professionally.

I thought so too. But I also thought it was weird, because, well, I couldn't think of a situation where something I would write something in pen that's so important I would need to get it recovered professionally because it faded, or because I spilled water on it

 

 

 

1/1a. Welcome Aboard! Put your feet up and enjoy your time here.

New York State..what part do you reside...................................

2. Pick up old bottle of Quink Green..................................................

3/3a. In the matter of Quink and Washable / Permanent.

Has to do with how they wash out of my /your clothin'..

nothin' to do with permanency on your / my paper.

" metal incorpporated into them that essentially gets embedded into the paper."When the ink fades, or is rendered illegible due to water or whatnot, you can get what was originally written recovered professionally."

Do you have anything that would corroborate this statement?

Fred

1. Thanks for the welcome!

1. a) I'm from upstate NY in the capital district, near Albany.

2. I did try to find green Quink, but all I could find were vintage bottles from eBay, not sure if I'd want that. Do inks ever "go bad"?

3. Yeah, that's what I thought too, and I don't really have anything that indicates if any of what I heard was true, tried googling it, but nothing came up. It's just what the lady at Parker support told me when I asked how exactly the ink was permanent.

[lisadan]

[Freddy]

 

Fred

Good nite everybody

[arcadeflow]

At first I didn't notice you got this answer directly by Parker. It is just that I have never seen anyone claim those inks had any iron gall (that is probably what she meant with "metal"). Some Pilot inks, even current Sheaffer Black and others, leave a faint gray on paper if washed, it is readable. Some Pilots even keep most of the blue or black dies. These inks are not said to carry iron gall content, but they obviously have some chemistry resisting water. I have never read someone explaining how they achieve that. My other Sheaffer and Diamine inks washed off completely. I know Noodler's use some stuff that only bonds to the cellulose of paper and clothes, that said, I am not sure why would people keep using iron gall for permanency.

[dcwaites]

It is simply Parker's mis-use of the term Permanent. The Parker Permanent inks are "more" permanent than their washable inks, but they are not truly permanent in the way that Pilot Black, Blue-Black and Blue are permanent, or the way that the Noodler's bulletproof inks or Private Reserve invincible inks are permanent, or the way that iron-gall containing inks are permanent.

[PS104]

Apparently the "permanent" Quinks have metal incorporated into them that essentially gets embedded into the paper. When the ink fades, or is rendered illegible due to water or whatnot, you can get what was originally written recovered professionally.

 

Did anybody know about this?!?! I've used Quink as my everyday writing ink for ages, and had no idea. I was mindblower. Is this a feature found in any other inks?? Very interesting, or at least IMHO.

 

Sounds like the beginnings of an urban legend

[dcwaites]

Inks that have a red sheen to them after they dry usually have a dye which has a metal element in the dye molecule, like a chromium compound or something like that. There are actually no metallic particles in the ink.

 

The only exception is the iron-gall inks (which none of the Parker inks is) which, as they dry, precipitate out black Iron III Oxide particles into the paper.

[fabri00]

Also Rohrer & Klingner has a "Parmanent Blau" which is a nice blue ink, but it has nothing of permanent. It is easly washable by water.

[Oldane]

........ that said, I am not sure why would people keep using iron gall for permanency.

 

Well, first, for permanency. And second, the for the very good behavior on all kinds of paper. Almost all the modern non-iron-gall permanent inks feather and bleed on bad paper (except Noodlers Bulletproof Black - but it smears even when dry). All the Iron-gall inks (except Hero 232) I know of doesn't feather nor bleed even on bad paper. That's important to me. I can't choose the paper the forms we use at work is printed on, so I choose my ink to fit the paper and not vice versa.

 

So .... I'd like to rephrase the question: Why would people not not use iron-gall inks for permanency?

[WilsonCQB1911]

 

Well, first, for permanency. And second, the for the very good behavior on all kinds of paper. Almost all the modern non-iron-gall permanent inks feather and bleed on bad paper (except Noodlers Bulletproof Black - but it smears even when dry). All the Iron-gall inks (except Hero 232) I know of doesn't feather nor bleed even on bad paper. That's important to me. I can't choose the paper the forms we use at work is printed on, so I choose my ink to fit the paper and not vice versa.

 

So .... I'd like to rephrase the question: Why would people not not use iron-gall inks for permanency?

 

Yup. I think iron-gall is better than Noodler's Black as well because Noodler's Black write so dry in everything I use it in. Much more so than most iron-galls I use. I just don't enjoy using Noodler's Black.

[stuartk]

It is simply Parker's mis-use of the term Permanent. The Parker Permanent inks are "more" permanent than their washable inks, but they are not truly permanent in the way that Pilot Black, Blue-Black and Blue are permanent, or the way that the Noodler's bulletproof inks or Private Reserve invincible inks are permanent, or the way that iron-gall containing inks are permanent.

 

Parker (and some other company's) use of the term "Permanent" is not a misuse. It was used years ago to distinguish an ink from others that were washable (out of clothing). If you wanted an indelible ink, you probably used India ink in a dip pen.

 

There were also laundry marker inks that often came in a kit with a small dip pen. I have an old one from Carter's and tried it several years ago, and the ink does hold up pretty well even when you wash with bleach. It seems to perform better than the Sharpie laundry markers do. I guess that's "progress."