Overpriced

[mrchan]

 

You are confusing your own case with that of others who you may not speak for. Don't assume that because it isn't so for you, it necessarily follows that it isn't so for others.

I never once said what I felt was the case for other people. Don't make assumptions about me assuming.

[mrchan]

.

Edited October 17, 2014 by mrchan

[Redbarchettayyz]

So, pens are neat.

[mrchan]

So, pens are neat.

Be careful, Cryptos might call you out on using the word "neat" to mean cool.

His inflexible mind might say that "neat" means "tidy" and that pens can't be "tidy".

He will then try to bash your comprehension of the language and call your children shallower than children of the past.

[Baric]

So, pens are neat.

 

Cool colors, pretty lines.

[Cryptos]

 

I am educated at up to the highest level in university in a purely english speaking country, so don't try to discredit my mastery of the language, my opinions are from the point of view of a native english language speaker.

 

Well that gave me and me a particularly good laugh this afternoon. You didn't spot the bit in my earlier posts when I mentioned I am on staff at a University. In research I should add.

 

How old are you mrchan? I have given you my age, I feel it reasonable to ask.

 

 

EDIT: oops, forgot. Getting late.

 

 

Yes, in other words, I enjoy having certain things, but that DEGREE of enjoyment is simply trivial.

 

You used the word 'desire'. That is not a trivial word at all. It implies a deep emotional context. If you cannot say what you mean, how can you mean what you say?

Edited October 17, 2014 by Cryptos

[WaskiSquirrel]

Hopefully everyone pauses to take a break, write something with their favorite pen, and just accept that not everyone will interpret what we say the way we mean it, not everyone will agree with us, and sometimes it's better just to agree to disagree and relax and enjoy life!

[Cryptos]

Agreed. Unfortunately I interpret mrchan's attitude as bullying and I do not respond well under those circumstances.

[mrchan]

 

Well that gave me and me a particularly good laugh this afternoon. You didn't spot the bit in my earlier posts when I mentioned I am on staff at a University. In research I should add.

 

How old are you mrchan? I have given you my age, I feel it reasonable to ask.

 

You used the word 'desire'. That is not a trivial word at all. It implies a deep emotional context. If you cannot say what you mean, how can you mean what you say?

I am doing research in Cardiology at the moment as well and working in clinical practice at the same time. 30 years old. Emotions can't be quantified can it? Like my examples above, each word has a meaning to it but its the way you use different adjectives to it that makes the difference. Quite stupid and Very stupid implies two totally different things doesn't it? They still mean the person is stupid (which is a strong word in itself), but when you add on adjectives to it, you know it changes the degree of implication. You know this is true, why keep being so obstinate?

 

Agreed. Unfortunately I interpret mrchan's attitude as bullying and I do not respond well under those circumstances.

You interpret it as bullying? Lol..You are bringing up my culture and implying that everybody speaks poor english and that english belongs to YOU and I shouldn't dare question you about it and I am the bully here?

 

While a lot of native english speaking countries can speak it well, a lot of them can't write it well and spell it well. Please dispense with your superior notions that you can't or shouldn't be challenged just because you come from a native english speaking country. Your racial attitude is truly abhorrent.

Edited October 17, 2014 by mrchan

[Cryptos]

Just because emotions cannot be quantified does not mean that a word does not embody the sentiment. The words 'quite' and 'very' are modifiers. The words 'like' and 'desire' are not. There is a categorical difference.

 

 

... each word has a meaning to it but its the way you use different adjectives to it that makes the difference.

 

I agree, but that is not what you did regarding 'like' and 'desire'.

 

You claim your culture is derived Chinese-Malaysian. How am I supposed to know that you are born and raised in an English speaking country when you fail to disclose this? Also, your use of English is not as good as you think, in my opinion, so I have to make the assumption that as acceptable as it may seem it may have been your second language. In the absence of any other evidence (earlier in the thread), and despite initially erring on the side of giving the benefit of the doubt, later I wondered if I was mistaken.

 

If I had wanted to drag culture into it I would have said that you display a deplorable lack of respect for your elders. But I didn't. You, on the other hand, attempted the old 'appeal to authority' card by bringing your educational achievement into the argument: something Richard Dawkins warns all open-minded people to avoid.

 

This is getting out of hand. I have requested a lock and I will not respond publicly to further posts in this vein.

 

If you, mrchan, wish to continue this by PM please do so. I am not intimidated by you.

[de_pen_dent]

So... who thinks Krone pens are overpriced? Or Caran d'Ache?

[ethernautrix]

I suppose we should define our terms in order to have a meaningful discussion about the subject.

 

For instance, what is the difference between overpriced and expensive? I seem to recall someone's attempting a distinction that's been lost in the heat of passionate defense of assumptions.

[Cryptos]

Overpriced

1. What is the price of the pen?
2. Is the price for this pen consistent across markets?
3. Do I think the pen is representative of the price?
4. Can I afford to pay the price?

In my opinion,

• if 2 is false then, depending on whether I am buying at the higher or lower point, I may consider the pen to be overpriced.
• If 3 is false - the pen materials, service contract (if any), design, or performance, fall below expectations - then the pen is overpriced. With the proviso that I may buy anyway if the pen has some especial cachet (rarity, provenance).
• If 4 is false then it doesn't matter if I think it is overpriced as I cannot get it anyway!

 

Regarding my favourite whipping boy - MB - for me point 3 is false for most of the models I have seen. Although the cachet may be quite strong. And for some of the LEs and so on, point 4 comes into play.

 

Looking at Nakaya, on the other hand, only point 4 applies at this time. Of course I have yet to write with one, so point 3 may raise its head then.

 

 

Of course I should add that for me the above largely applies to new pens. When I turn my attention to vintage pens the picture changes quite a bit. And because I am still utterly ignorant about...well, pretty much everything... this area is very murky.

 

 

 

Anyway, that's more or less how I decide on whether to pay a price for something. With regard to point 4 I also think about how long I would have to work to be able to pay the price. That can sway me against purchasing even if I have the money.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Cryptos

[mrchan]

Just because emotions cannot be quantified does not mean that a word does not embody the sentiment. The words 'quite' and 'very' are modifiers. The words 'like' and 'desire' are not. There is a categorical difference.

 

 

I agree, but that is not what you did regarding 'like' and 'desire'.

 

You claim your culture is derived Chinese-Malaysian. How am I supposed to know that you are born and raised in an English speaking country when you fail to disclose this? Also, your use of English is not as good as you think, in my opinion, so I have to make the assumption that as acceptable as it may seem it may have been your second language. In the absence of any other evidence (earlier in the thread), and despite initially erring on the side of giving the benefit of the doubt, later I wondered if I was mistaken.

 

If I had wanted to drag culture into it I would have said that you display a deplorable lack of respect for your elders. But I didn't. You, on the other hand, attempted the old 'appeal to authority' card by bringing your educational achievement into the argument: something Richard Dawkins warns all open-minded people to avoid.

 

This is getting out of hand. I have requested a lock and I will not respond publicly to further posts in this vein.

 

If you, mrchan, wish to continue this by PM please do so. I am not intimidated by you.

Intimidation? Since when have I come close to doing anything but? Only you are deciding to bring words like bullying and intimidation after condemning my culture and people being unable to speak proper english. It was a discussion until you decided to drag culture into it. Your command of the English language is far from as masterful as you claim it to be, failing to understand simple things such as degrees of descriptions. For a native english speaker, perhaps crude is the best way to potray your command of the language for failing to understand simple concepts.

 

Respect is earned btw, it was civil disagreement initially. After dragging culture into it, and claiming the English language to be YOURS, you have lost all right to even the slightest bit of respect from my side. I hate to break it to you old man, but the English language does NOT belong to you.

 

You are the one who brought your university research profile into the picture before I even said anything about education. :/

[ethernautrix]

Good lord, mrchan, use your mastery of the English language to notice that people are trying to turn the discussion back to the topic. Perhaps you can send that message to cyptos via PM as he suggested.

[Cryptos]

http://www.dharmawheel.net/images/smilies/goodpost.gif

[mrchan]

Good lord, mrchan, use your mastery of the English language to notice that people are trying to turn the discussion back to the topic. Perhaps you can send that message to cyptos via PM as he suggested.

Perhaps you could suggest the same to the culture bashing, shallow youth man who owns the English language as well.

[Cryptos]

http://www.dharmawheel.net/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

[Nonsensical]

Good lord, mrchan, use your mastery of the English language to notice that people are trying to turn the discussion back to the topic. Perhaps you can send that message to cyptos via PM as he suggested.

You know how sometimes you know that you're watching a train wreck about to happen, can't stop it no matter what you do, and still watch on whilst feeling a mix of disbelief, horror and fascination? That's how this thread now makes me feel .

[ethernautrix]

As for the topic, I tend to think of things I can't afford as expensive and not over-priced, which might be a limitation of my perception. There are many things I would love to have - van Gogh's "The Starry Night," for example (there's another question, are artworks by the recognized masters over-priced? What about real estate in big cities?) - but I also like to have few things, to travel lightly. When expensive things are more than I want to spend, I tend to appreciate both what I do have and the fact that those things are out there; someone's enjoying them, and I don't envy those that have so much more than I do. It's just a practical way of being.

 

So, are Krones or Caran d'Ache over-priced? Mmm maybe. Hahaha, the bottle of Caran d'Ache ink I bought without asking the price first, yes, cos if I had asked first, I would not have bought it. Extenuating circumstances included currency exchange and sharing it with a friend who wanted that color who also didn't know it would be so expensive and wanted me to return it, but no, I figured it was the price of the lesson (information about the shop keeper where we don't go, anymore).