Overpriced

[mrchan]

 

We'd never be able to communicate with anyone if we didn't have consistent definitions for words. Go ahead and feel sorry for me, I can use the pity.

 

Dictionaries are descriptive lists containing the most commonly accepted definitions for words. I freely accepted that I was wrong to mix up brand image and brand identity.

 

If you want to continue taking offence at an inoffensive statement, go for it.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/brand+image

What do you think of that interpretation of brand image then? Do try to fit that into your definition of brand image again like your ever encompassing interpretation of the term brand image goes. Keep in mind that there are tonnes of dictionaries out there, all of which have slightly differing interpretation of words.

It isn't as black and white as you think.

[gautampk]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/brand+image

What do you think of that interpretation of brand image then? Do try to fit that into your definition of brand image again like your ever encompassing interpretation of the term brand image goes. Keep in mind that there are tonnes of dictionaries out there, all of which have slightly differing interpretation of words.

It isn't as black and white as you think.

 

Yes, that's fine. Brand image is the the attributes of a brand as perceived by potential and actual customers, and the attributes of a brand are the brand identity.

 

No, it isn't completely black and white; but, no dictionary ever defines brand image as something to do with snobbishness or luxury. It's a technical term to refer to something specific, namely how customers perceive a brand.

[prf5]

Aesthetics is part of the brand identity. Filling mechanism and ink capacity are part of the utility of the product, as is nib specifics (size, flex, etc.). Good service is brand identity, as is quality control and reliability (or the perception thereof). Cachet, history, heart, soul, success, stability, etc are all brand identity. Availability, yes, okay, but I think that's kind of a separate issue. It doesn't really factor into whether or not someone is willing to buy something. I've been through this all with de_pen_dent

6. Utility, 7. Brand identity and image, 8. Knowledge of what?, 9. Brand identity and image, etc. disagree with your end statement . It's just what people are willing to pay in return for the other three/four factors. If they are willing to pay more for a specific niche utility, how is that somehow worse than if someone wants to pay more for a specific brand identity (the design, good service, well known brand, whatever)?

 

 

"Brand identity and image" is a category of reasons. Other people, myself included, have listed actual reasons. Your scheme is removed from how people draw distinctions and make decisions. It doesn't allow you to distinguish willingness to pay from willingness to overpay. In essence, rather than concluding that people don't overpay, you presume that they can't.

Edited October 6, 2014 by prf5

[gautampk]

 

"Brand identity and image" is a category of reasons. Other people, myself included, have listed actual reasons. Your scheme is removed from how people draw distinctions and make decisions. It doesn't allow you to distinguish willingness to pay from willingness to overpay. In essence, rather than concluding that people don't overpay, you presume that they can't.

 

Well, yeah. I never implied it was anything more than a category of reasons. I presume that people pay for what they are willing to pay for, that's all I've ever said.

[prf5]

There are zillions of pens in every price range .... Don't be distracted by those high end pens. Just cuz they are pretty doesn't mean they necessarily write any better than a $100 restored Parker 51.

 

Devoted or captive customers of retailers who sell lower end products may be just as willing to overpay as customers who are devoted to high end products. People who shop in grocery stores in poor neighborhoods will pay 10 to 50% more for the same item that they would pay in a middle class neighborhood. They are overpaying, even though we're talking about difference between .10 and .15 for a piece of fruit.

 

In another thread, I documented an overpayment for a used pen. I paid $80.00 for a pen that was worth about $40.00. The amount I lost was small, but the rate is large. Imagine this dealer overcharging on hundreds of transactions. That's not a bad business, huh.

[cjseibold]

It's only worth what you're willing to pay for it.

[Yehenara]

Cheap people who tear apart stuff they can't afford or can't bear to fork out money for bore me.

 

Not related to the topic, and really, I mean no offense by this - I may even be interpreting this wrongly - but this is probably one of the more pretentious things I've read.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Yehenara

[Algester]

Ok back to topic overpriced I say inks not made in your country... Shipping takes a bulk+- marketing case in point iroshizuku it has a jaring price increase outside of japan

[de_pen_dent]

 

Not related to the topic, and really, I mean no offense by this - I may even be interpreting this wrongly - but this is probably one of the more pretentious things I've read.

 

I dont want to speak for him, but I suspect Mr Chan was trying to make a point about how some of those "MBs are only for people with more money than sense, or pretentious wannabes" comments sound. This comment is in the exact same vein, but flipped around - but no one blinks an eye at the former

[Kuscer]

 

Not related to the topic, and really, I mean no offense by this - I may even be interpreting this wrongly - but this is probably one of the more pretentious things I've read.

it's just cold... we don't know how he meant it... after all, de_pen_dent might be right

Edited October 7, 2014 by FP189

[mrchan]

 

Yes, that's fine. Brand image is the the attributes of a brand as perceived by potential and actual customers, and the attributes of a brand are the brand identity.

 

No, it isn't completely black and white; but, no dictionary ever defines brand image as something to do with snobbishness or luxury. It's a technical term to refer to something specific, namely how customers perceive a brand.

While no dictionary defines it that way, but many many cultures would perceive that if you own a branded item, that it means its expensive. Take Asia for example. Thats exactly what it means there. Its the same in Ireland and the UK. Asia happens to be the biggest continent in the world and yes that is how the word BRANDED is perceived. More than half the world's population can't be wrong. I don't know what its like wherever you're from, but I suspect if you tell somebody you just bought a branded watch, it means that it is expensive.

 

 

I dont want to speak for him, but I suspect Mr Chan was trying to make a point about how some of those "MBs are only for people with more money than sense, or pretentious wannabes" comments sound. This comment is in the exact same vein, but flipped around - but no one blinks an eye at the former

Funny that this has to be explained for it to be understood huh?

 

 

Not related to the topic, and really, I mean no offense by this - I may even be interpreting this wrongly - but this is probably one of the more pretentious things I've read.

Why thank you. Please refer to the above.

[BrandonA]

mrchan,

 

In the UK there is a low quality womans shop called Look. I found the link when I search for brands.

 

http://www.look.co.uk/fashion-brands

 

I don't think there are any quality "brands" on the list so saying you shop at New Look and buy their brands does not mean you get quality. Even the term "designer brand" is dubious, for example is Ted Baker on the same level in men's fashion as Versace or Hugo Boss?

 

In the pen world you could say "I bought a branded pen, it was a Parker". I would not know if you bought a quality pen until I asked you which range it was from. If it were a Jotter then clearly you've not bought quality. If however you bought a Duofold then you have bought quality.

 

Branded is just another way of say "it is made by a company and not the shop that sells it", i.e. Heinz baked beans and not Tesco baked beans.

Edited October 9, 2014 by BrandonA

[Lyander0012]

mrchan,

 

In the UK there is a low quality womans shop called Look. I found the link when I search for brands.

 

http://www.look.co.uk/fashion-brands

 

I don't think there are any quality "brands" on the list so saying you shop at New Look and buy their brands does not mean you get quality. Even the term "designer brand" is dubious, for example is Ted Baker on the same level in men's fashion as Versace or Hugo Boss?

 

In the pen world you could say "I bought a branded pen, it was a Parker". I would not know if you bought a quality pen until I asked you which range it was from. If it were a Jotter then clearly you've not bought quality. If however you bought a Duofold then you have bought quality.

 

Branded is just another way of say "it is made by a company and not the shop that sells it", i.e. Heinz baked beans and not Tesco baked beans.

 

Hmm, this is a classic example of how a word takes on different meanings depending on context. Here in the Philippines as well, where people who are looking to make a quick peso (I'd say hundred pesos since PHP is really low-value, but that'd ruin the flow of the sentence) are apt to churn out a myriad of "unbranded" clothes, accessories, etc. I hope you pardon my saying so, since I do not wish to involve myself in the passive-aggressive arguments here, but simply disregarding what an acceptable use of the word "branded" merely on account of one's being unfamiliar with said usage is a tad closed, methinks.

 

Again, I mean no offense, but were I in Messr. mrchan's position (bit redundant that), I'd likely think you were being a bit unfair.

 

Hmm, this isn't the sort of thread I'd participate in, normally, but the discussion regarding word usage is fairly interesting, and I've some time to kill tomorrow.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Kevin

[Oldtimer]

it's just not fair

 

But it is fair. My most expensive pen is my fifty dollar TWSBI and I like it very much. That leaves a lot of pens I'd like to have but can't afford but I chose a profession where I'm comfortable but I can't be extravagant in my spending. I made choices as to what kind of work I wanted to do and how much money I would make in that line of work and I don't regret my decisions.

 

Larry

I admire your candor and loyalty to your beliefs. So much of what we do is influenced by what others say and have and not on what one really needs and wants. Life is about choices, isn't it? I am with you in saying that priority one ( one of many life's big decisions) is to be in the kind of job you like, love and feel comfortable with and beeing in. All else falls in place afer that.

[de_pen_dent]

Funny that this has to be explained for it to be understood huh?

 

Well, obviously, those who use MBs are far more sophisticated, suave and subtle

 

(*ducks and runs*)

[Cryptos]

The term 'branded' by itself, in the shopping context, does not necessarily imply expense or luxury. For me branded, in this context, means that the item is likely to have been produced to a certain standard. One that is known and regulated. In other words, at an accepted quality level. That does not have to mean luxury though. Even cheap things can be branded or unbranded.

[ethernautrix]

The term 'branded' by itself, in the shopping context, does not necessarily imply expense or luxury. For me branded, in this context, means that the item is likely to have been produced to a certain standard. One that is known and regulated. In other words, at an accepted quality level. That does not have to mean luxury though. Even cheap things can be branded or unbranded.

 

This is how I understand branding as well. Mercedes Benz is a brand. Honda is a brand. Kia is a brand. Each brand conveys a different message to consumers.

[Brian K]

 

This is how I understand branding as well. Mercedes Benz is a brand. Honda is a brand. Kia is a brand. Each brand conveys a different message to consumers.

 

 

Yeah, what Lisa said. A brand is a brand is a brand (with apologies to Gertrude Stein).

[brunico]

Indeed, there's nothing special about being a brand.

 

Marketers would have you believe otherwise, of course, but, for them, language is no longer an instrument expressive of truth. They pulled the same trick with quality. Use quality or brand absolutely rather than gradably (a "quality fountain pen," for example, rather than a "better quality fountain pen"), and you've pulled the trick of placing your rivals' products not lower down a scale, but in nowhere land: you've denied them any notion of quality (or brand) at all, and they've nothing left to hang onto.

 

If this were merely a game by the sort of charlatan that likes to describe one of their biros as "creating a timeless design for tomorrow’s world," then it would be merely an irritant, intelligence-insulting drivel. But this violence towards language has nastier analogues when we hear people imply that only this socio-economic group has aspirations or only that political group has values or only these people have responsibility - when we hear them remove human attributes from other people, when we hear them dehumanise them.

 

I'm not saying that people who argue about stationery want to take over the world: I'm just struck by what's going on in language, that's all. But let's get back to talking about fountain pens, and not into a debate about whether people who own biros have the intelligence required to vote.

 

Anyway, my fountain pens don't care whether they're from a "brand," or whether other people condescend to accord them "quality." And neither do I.

 

Amazing what the innocent frustration of a teenager at not being able to afford some attractive things - that's the original post, if anyone remembers it - amazing what that has sparked off!

[gautampk]

While no dictionary defines it that way, but many many cultures would perceive that if you own a branded item, that it means its expensive. Take Asia for example. Thats exactly what it means there. Its the same in Ireland and the UK. Asia happens to be the biggest continent in the world and yes that is how the word BRANDED is perceived. More than half the world's population can't be wrong. I don't know what its like wherever you're from, but I suspect if you tell somebody you just bought a branded watch, it means that it is expensive.

 

Like I said, technical term with a precise definition.

 

Apologies for any confusion, but given you are now aware of the definition I was using and I am aware of the negatives which may be attached to it, can we agree, or at least proceed without quibbling over definitions?