pen hierarchy?

[sonia_simone]

It's truly too subjective to come up with something that will be generally agreed on.

 

If money weren't a factor and I was told I could keep only one FP, my rather homely Phileas or my very beautiful Omas 360, I would choose the Phileas without question. Omas ranks very highly in most people's "writing hierarchy," but I dislike some aspects of the feel of the nib. I respect the Omas style, but I don't enjoy it. I also prefer a Rotring Core over a Parker "51."

 

Most pen people would think I'm nuts. But I also think most pen people have some preferences that don't accord with the general wisdom.

 

It's interesting to read about some of the pens that "everyone" says are wonderful (Nakaya, Omas, Stipula), and it's also interesting to read a little longer and realize that not everyone agrees with "everyone." Some people hate Pelikan. Some people hate Sailor. It's much more complex than a sliding scale from good to bad.

 

I realize this is rather unsatisfying at first, but after awhile the notion sort of grows on you.

[JRodriguez]

I'm with Rroossink on this ... I value pens according to their significance to me, but also on how much I enjoy them. By that standard, the vac I inherited from my father is priceless - I wouldn't trade it for anything. And my Aurora 88, for how much I enjoy using it, is also a pen I will keep for the rest of my life. Also, as others here have said, I think the super high prices are about rarity/scarcity - and with modern pens, its about other things like brand prestige and perception of value - at least in my humble estimation ...

[Phthalo]

(Personally, I have not one flicker of interest in the Parker 51. Sorry!

 

So, my top WRITING hierarchy goes like this:

 

#1 - Nakaya Piccolo / Pilot 78G

 

For me, these pens are equal when it comes to the writing experience.

 

The Nakaya Piccolo is several hundred dollars more expensive than the Pilot 78G.

 

Did I buy the Nakaya because I thought it would write better than anything I already owned? Hell no - I bought it as a piece of art. The fact that it would write perfectly was simply expected - as should always be the case.

Edited March 3, 2007 by Phthalo

[myotis]

QUOTE (goodguy @ Mar 3 2007, 12:48 AM)

QUOTE (myotis @ Mar 2 2007, 09:46 PM) QUOTE (goodguy @ Mar 2 2007, 09:25 PM) Top place in my hierarchy takes MB 149. Parker 51 is a great pen that I truly love and own never the less it isnt in the royal family. Is this purely on writing quality, or are you including looks etc Defenetly looks and feel.It wouldnt surprise me if a well tuned Parker 51 will write as good and maybe even better than a MB 149. Thanks, that is a really useful comment for me.   Graham

[myotis]

QUOTE (MYU @ Mar 3 2007, 02:07 AM)

(two of my Montblancs are at the top of the heap for writing quality--a broad stub Solitaire and an oblique broad stub 82). Also, my Pilot/Namiki Raden VP has a nice semi-flexible medium nib that is simply one of the best mediums I've ever written with, for the price (Nakaya tops it).

Yes I agree its subjective but it is also interesting to hear the comparisons. Especially this one as I have just ordered two medium point VPs, and flicking through pictures before discovering the price, it was a Mont Blanc that I decided was the pen I wanted.

 

Graham

[myotis]

QUOTE (rroossinck @ Mar 3 2007, 02:26 AM)

My one and only Parker 51 (for right now, anyway...there's another in the mail as we speak) is a 1945 Dove Grey XF... I will never get rid of it. Ever. Although it's not my favorite color combination, I will treasure it forever, because not only is it such a great writer (it is truly superb)...

In spite of the subjectivity involved there does seem to be universal acclaim that the 51s are superb writers and can probably act as some sort of benchmark. BUT I of course realise there are other factors when choosing you own personal hhierarchy.

 

Graham

[Nihontochicken]

QUOTE

As for reputation: from what I see the 51 does very well as an all-around nice pen. Though I will say I don't have any.

 

Borg new target, vector 51, alpha mark 386. All units on alert. Come back with your shield or on it.

 

QUOTE

Parker 51 is a great pen that I truly love and own never the less it isnt in the royal family.  The queen is the MB 149.

 

The REAL Queen is not amused. Additional target, again vector 51, gamma mark 666. All units, make the Collective proud.

[myotis]

QUOTE (sonia_simone @ Mar 3 2007, 03:50 AM)

It's truly too subjective to come up with something that will be generally agreed on.

I agree, but there does seem to be general agreement that Parker 51s sit some where at the top (but I note your (useful) comment about the Rotring)

 

With something as personal as pens there will always be a wide range of views, but equally it is often surprising how similar we are - hence the apparent majority view on Parker 51s.

 

I certainly don't find it unsatisfying, and I am not expecting a neat hierarchy, just interested in how individuals rank the writing quality of their pens.

 

Graham

[myotis]

QUOTE (JRodriguez @ Mar 3 2007, 06:00 AM)

I'm with Rroossink on this ... I value pens according to their significance to me, but also on how much I enjoy them.

Yes, I appreciate that the value of a pen is much more than just is writing ability.

 

Graham

[georges zaslavsky]

QUOTE (myotis @ Mar 2 2007, 07:47 PM)

Myu, But does the $2000 parker 51 actually write better than a cheaper one, or you paying for the finish and rarity. Equally, although the Mont Blanc is at the top end in terms of status, I have seen it suggested here that it is only middling as a writer. I know it depends on the individual, but even then there is often some generally accepted hierarchy. And yes, I already have several pens (including a Parker 51), with another two on the way !! Graham

Hi

 

Montblanc nibs are available in various flexibility grades. I own two wintage montblancs pens who writes extremely well. I know also a several bunch of people who own modern Montblancs and who never had probs and who really enjoy their pens. For example my 1965 Meisterstück 146writes very well if not better than my Omas arte italiana. I also tried a modern 149 before buying my Omas and it was a very smooth pen but having already a vintage 149 with a semiflex nib I wanted something else and chose the Omas.Rumors are rumors. About the 51, I have tried many at Morastylos, a great pen indeed and you can find good models at 100-200€ in the near nos condition.

 

See, I don't believe in rumors, it was the same thing with the rumor of Pelikan being made in China in the future when it was completely false.

 

regards

 

georges

[FrankB]

I am certain I shall say nothing new. I also resist the idea of a pen hierarchy. It must necessarily be subjective. I am sur that folks here have different idea about pen qualities, and all of us here would have different perspectives from people like the editors of "Pen World."

 

I am a big fan of the Parker Duofold line, and I prefer the Centennial size, though I have a couple Internationals. I have an example of nearly every color Centennial made from 1989 to 1999, except LE's. A couple years ago, I finally found a Norman Rockwell LE at what I considered a good price. I love the looks of the Rockwell LE, so aesthetics is a factor. But the pen is a Centennial with a normal Centennial nib and section. It is essentially a different cap and barrel. It writes great for a Centennial, but not better than any others. It does not fit into any higher category in my collection than any other Centennial.

 

I have other pens I like as well as any of my Centennials. Some of the are similar in price, some are considerably less expensive. I like good pens, but it just does not dawn on me to catagorize them.

 

Nothing new, just one more opinion.

[myotis]

QUOTE (FrankB @ Mar 3 2007, 08:47 AM)

I am certain I shall say nothing new. I also resist the idea of a pen hierarchy. It must necessarily be subjective. I am sur that folks here have different idea about pen qualities,

Its the subjectivity that makes it interesting, and to see whether there is some sort of concensus, as there seems to be with Parker 51s on how well different pens write.

 

I suppose that one of the things that prompted me to ask was that given the way people rave about 51s was it a case that once you reached a certain level of quality were you then paying for style, and rarity, or were you actually getting pens that wrote better.

 

Graham

 

 

[Col]

QUOTE (myotis @ Mar 3 2007, 11:02 AM)

I suppose that one of the things that prompted me to ask was that given the way people rave about 51s was it a case that once you reached a certain level of quality were you then paying for style, and rarity, or were you actually getting pens that wrote better.

Something to bear in mind is that while a pen may be generally agreed to write well, it doesn't necessarily follow that everyone can write well with it. For example, some people can't get on with the 51's hooded nib; others might find the tapering section awkward, and some complain it doesn't balance well in the hand.

 

Nobody can deny its landmark (and yardstick) status, though.

[Bill]

On this forum I once suggested a pen show event involving blind testing and simply letting the feel of the writing dictate opinions. I thought of schemes to mask visual cues of the pens, but handling would be affected. Someone would have to hand the pens to the tester in a way that clips/caps/body features were not recognized. The test would simply be about balance, handling and smoothness characteristics. Still subjective, but potentially interesting. This morning I had a flash of inspiration on how to conduct such an experiment.

 

My theory is that there might be some patterns in the perceived writing quality which would correspond to the characteristics of the individual, such as experience with FP, hand size, writing size, and so forth.

 

It would be perfect for the Ohio Pen Show. It would give us a whole winter of stuff to argue...ahem...discuss.

 

Bill

 

 

[myotis]

QUOTE (Col @ Mar 3 2007, 01:00 PM)

Something to bear in mind is that while a pen may be generally agreed to write well, it doesn't necessarily follow that everyone can write well with it. For example, some people can't get on with the 51's hooded nib; others might find the tapering section awkward, and some complain it doesn't balance well in the hand. Nobody can deny its landmark (and yardstick) status, though.

This will also extend to other aspects of pen design thickness, weight, balance etc, but it still seems useful to have the 51 sat there as a benchmark even though looks and handling aren't to everyone's taste.

[sleek_lover]

Having been away from churchly thing for quite a while...does Lent end on Good Friday, Mauday Thursay, Easter Saturday or Easter Sunday?

 

I have given up MB bashing for Lent. This thread just BEGS for a good MB bashing. So I have to wait to post the REAL Thing in pen rankings until AFTER Lent.

 

Bill

[MYU]

QUOTE (Bill @ Mar 3 2007, 08:14 AM)

On this forum I once suggested a pen show event involving blind testing and simply letting the feel of the writing dictate opinions.

I think that's an excellent idea, Bill.

 

To help keep the pens anonymous, a thin slightly textured elastic shealth could be put around the pen barrel to disguise any surface artifacts (like ribbing, clutch ring, section seam, etc). Of course, to be fair a rather large range of pens would have to be represented. And I assume that only one nib type and relative size would be used (e.g. if an average "medium" nib were chosen, some pens would have to be "fine" to match). The outcome would be VERY interesting to see!

 

Ultimately, it is a personal matter though. Just because a certain pen might be selected doesn't mean everyone would agree. Still... it's always interesting to see what the majority thinks.

 

The Parker 51 is a fantastic pen "overall"--considering reliability, durability, style, nib quality, ink flow, ink filling, size, average market price, and cost of maintenance. It isn't my top favorite pen, but I enjoy my 51's and revere Parker's historic landmark achievement.