Diamine Should Develop Lubricated Inks Like Noodler's...

[lapis]

Ditto!

[Centopar]

I love Diamine's inks. They're reliable performers; readily available here in the UK; well-behaved in all my pens, from the flexiest flex to the most needle-tipped Japanese nibs; and the colour range is superb. You can find shaders, massively saturated colours and everything inbetween; and if you want permanent inks they have those for you too.

 

Don't go changing, Diamine!

 

On the surfactant issue: with a decent nib and decent paper, I'd be inclined to leave well alone. You're begging for a horrible feathering/bleeding incident once you start sticking additives in your ink. I speak from sad experience.

[cybaea]

I am obviously also a Diamine fan and availability is good for me here in the UK. Some of their inks are rather more free-flowing than others; I recently reviewed Evergreen which is an example.

 

I have no real need for bulletproof inks, but I do think it is a rather neat concept and a great implementation. Now, for what Noodler's call waterproof and eternal: that is another matter. They are useful when using fountain pens in coffee shops and at workshops in cramped meeting rooms where much water and too much coffee is drunk and possibly spilled about. Registrar's ink does work, but one isn't much of a choice. So count me in as a Noodler's fan for these qualities (and I also have the De Atramentis 'Document' inks but prefer Noodler's).

 

Try a wetter ink before you go the dishwasher route and see if that doesn't help.

[welch]

 

It depends on your point of view. IME, there is a rather pronounced difference in perspective to be aware of between folks in the US and UK over what sort of marketing is normal and expected. What passes for mundane in the US may come across as brazen or even as "puffery" to UK folks. Certainly Nathan's marketing of ink properties engenders no negative reactions from me. He's supposed to make his pitch, and he's making it.

 

As for all the crazy inks, like the "invisible" one, you know I think he makes them because he can, maybe because he wants them. I remember Al Nagler of Tele Vue explaining why he designed ultrawide telescope eyepieces. He would tell you that he was an amateur astronomer, and he wanted them.

 

I haven't seen much difference in advertising puffery on either side of the Atlantic...and I work in financial services, so I bounce back and forth.

 

Noodlers advertising oversteps my line of tolerance when it implies that its varieties of waterprooof ink will protect against "check washing" and other forms of fraud, or that any science and engineering student ought to use Noodlers blast-proof ink...as if, for instance, current science was not developed by people writing with Quink, Skrip, Carters, or using pencils when conditions required. Somethig like frightening people that the Royal Navy "might" refit HMS Victory, so the US has to refit USS New Jersey as protection. A false threat with a solution that I'll sell you.

[CAG_1787]

 

I haven't seen much difference in advertising puffery on either side of the Atlantic...and I work in financial services, so I bounce back and forth.

 

Noodlers advertising oversteps my line of tolerance when it implies that its varieties of waterprooof ink will protect against "check washing" and other forms of fraud, or that any science and engineering student ought to use Noodlers blast-proof ink...as if, for instance, current science was not developed by people writing with Quink, Skrip, Carters, or using pencils when conditions required. Somethig like frightening people that the Royal Navy "might" refit HMS Victory, so the US has to refit USS New Jersey as protection. A false threat with a solution that I'll sell you.

 

Nah, we keep the USS Constitution fully floating for that purpose

 

As for inks, to each their own. I like waterproofness and no days-later smudging, so Noodler's outnumbers Diamine in my collection - but I own and enjoy both.

[UK Mike]

I LOVE Diamine inks and they are without doubt my favourite inks by far.

 

If you want to play around with lubrication and wetness, as well as glycerine, I can recommend "Daily Shower Spray" as a wetting agent and gum arabic as a lubricant. You need very small amounts of either to change the characterisitcs of the ink. Better to do this in a test tube than getting my favourite ink supplier to change their formulation

[coldman]

Noodler's makes waterproof ink in more colors than any other ink maker. Some people like to have waterproof inks. Without Noodler's we would have to choose: strong and bright colors, or waterproof? Thanks to Noodler's ink, we can have both!

 

As for check fraud safety, it's a nice trick, but of little practical consequence to me, especially as checks have been obsolete for over a decade in my country.

[Elizabeth in NJ]

You guys are such negative nancys. Using ink that would survive a nuclear holocaust is fun!

 

Plus, waterproof ink is great for addressing envelopes.

[Opooh]

You guys are such negative nancys. Using ink that would survive a nuclear holocaust is fun!

 

Plus, waterproof ink is great for addressing envelopes.

Your ink might survive the nukes, but certainly not your paper. Since I am not keeping my written stuff in the pool, waterproof ink isn't obligatory although for some people it is a must.

[welch]

 

Nah, we keep the USS Constitution fully floating for that purpose

 

 

 

Ah, but "Victory" was a "triple-decker" ship of the line, rated as a 100-gun ship. Something like a WW2 battleship. "Constitution" was a heavy frigate, rated a 44, and something like a WW2 heavy cruiser. No competition. After the War of 1812, the US Navy built several "blocade busters" even bigger than "Victory". One of those quirks: in 1861 the Navy abandoned Norfolk and burned the new steam frigate "Merrimac", but they also burned a 40-year old relic, the 120-gun USS "Pensylania". "Merrimac" was salvaged, but the remains of the old "Pennsylvania" might still be in the mud off Hampton Roads.

Edited August 19, 2013 by welch

[mhosea]

Since I am not keeping my written stuff in the pool, waterproof ink isn't obligatory although for some people it is a must.

I'm not worried about nukes, but I am a messy cook, and I've used pencils enough in my life not to find that option...palatable. If I really cared I could type in my notes and the print it on my laser printer, but that's not very "green". Most of the time I use inks that are not water resistant, or if they are, I don't care that they are. However, sometimes, for this purpose or that, I use Upper Ganges Blue, Heart of Darkness, Sei Boku, or Kiwa Guro and I do care and appreciate their imperviousness to spills.

 

Actually, since I mentioned the Sailor inks, here is a different area for other ink makers to explore--"nano" pigmented inks. The two Sailor inks are great, even disregarding their permanence.

[tfwall]

 

Noodlers advertising oversteps my line of tolerance when it implies that its varieties of waterprooof ink will protect against "check washing" and other forms of fraud, or that any science and engineering student ought to use Noodlers blast-proof ink...as if, for instance, current science was not developed by people writing with Quink, Skrip, Carters, or using pencils when conditions required. Somethig like frightening people that the Royal Navy "might" refit HMS Victory, so the US has to refit USS New Jersey as protection. A false threat with a solution that I'll sell you.

 

It is a piece of Americana, reflective of its time in history. The early aughts were a time of fear and paranoia in America, seeming dangers everywhere (terrorists, TSA, Patriot Act) and the ink perfectly captures that feeling (check washers, Chinese industrialists, forensic lighting and analysis).

[snedwos]

My opinion, for what it's worth: Diamine and Noodler's are my go to ink companies. Diamine for value (so dependable, so much choice, and so darn cheap!) and Noodler's for FUN.

 

I know the marketing is over the top, and probably mostly nonsense, but that is precisely what attracts me to it. I enjoy the silliness, and the ranting, and Nathan's accent, and the artwork, and the long, involved history lectures to explain the inspiration for this or that ink. It's all part of the package for me.

 

But of course, if I had to choose an ink to save my life, Diamine is obviously the answer. Or maybe Waterman.

[Sach]

Having started this topic, and also now having tried Noodler's blue eel, I must sincerely confess that Diamine is heaps better in every respect.

My new favourite, Diamina Asa blue is superior in almost every way to eel blue, or Noodler's blue. Both of these offerings from Noodler's are similar in colour.

[SeeksAdvice]

Here is my take on this debate:

 

As an American, I do like to support American business. That being said, I don't buy something I know to be inferior simply because it waives the U.S. flag.

 

Highly water resistant / waterproof inks are useful, as accidents can and do happen. If you've ever seen the results of ~6 million US gal. water poured into a fire, durability in the wet can be very useful (fire resistant filing cabinets may save the paperwork, but won't keep water out). Or, watching something simply vanish due to tipping a glass of water.

 

I have tried two of Noodler's "Eel" products: Eel Blue and Polar Blue. I can't say that they feel really any better than other inks that I have from Pilot, Diamine, Sailor, etc. Never noticed any freer piston movement in a converter with the Polar Blue, but did notice massive drool. With the Eel blue in an Inkball, I noticed some strange writing behavior in how the ink seemed to feed.

 

The only water resistant "eel" inks that I know of are the Polar line.

 

In conclusion, I'm not exactly sure what the lubricant is supposed to be. I just wonder what the black residue is that gets left behind with Bad Belted Kingfisher.

 

I don't see any massive benefit to the "eel" line either.

[corniche]

Having started this topic, and also now having tried Noodler's blue eel, I must sincerely confess that Diamine is heaps better in every respect.

My new favourite, Diamina Asa blue is superior in almost every way to eel blue, or Noodler's blue. Both of these offerings from Noodler's are similar in colour.

 

Hello Sach, et al,

 

I agree. I've tried quite a few Diamine inks and find them more than satisfactory in overall performance - including lubrication. I'll say this: the Iroshizuku inks are probably the best lubricated inks I've used and that includes Noodler's Eel inks, (I have a bottle of Nathan's Eel Blue too). If you ever do work up the nerve to put an additive in your ink, three or four drops, (per 50 to 80 ml of ink), of PURE glycerin or ethylene glycol will aid in lubrication.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

[dcwaites]

Points arising
1) Adding glycerine or glycol to your ink as a lubricant - Don't add drops to your whole bottle. You might end up with a bottle of ink you can't use or don't like any more. Take a sample of a few mls, and add the appropriate fraction of lubricant. Then, if you don't like the result, you still have the rest of the ink untouched.

2) Permanent/bulletproof/fraud resistant inks aren't just useful in writing cheques. Long before bulletproof inks were available (I suspect Nathan T was just entering primary school...) I was using a Rotring drafting pen with Rotring carbon-based ink for scientific notes. They were permanently permanent. In the field (and rain) I usually used a pencil and transcribed the notes later.

3) For various reasons I use a lot of notebooks/diaries with less than optimal paper. I find that Diamine inks (along with Private Reserve) bleed and feather on those papers noticeably more than Noodler's Blue or Black inks.

4) The most lubricating inks out of the bottle I have found are the Wancher inks. I use these inks in pens that either dry out in the nib too quickly, or are too dry as writers.

5) The only time I have thought of using lubricants and/or surfactants in ink was when I was trying to turn some vintage powdered clerical inks into something suitable for a cheap fountain pen. I wouldn't bother with a proper FP ink as (1) they are complicated mixes anyway, and it's going to be difficult to get it right and (2) there are enough FP inks out there you should be able to find something that fits your needs out of the bottle.

6) As for supporting your country, you are going to do far more good buying locally-grown produce in the shops. If Diamine/Noodler's/Waterman/Private Reserve go broke and collapse the effect on your country's economy will be so small as to be unnoticeable (I am writing here from an Economist's point of view), but if your local growers disappear (as is happening here in Australia), the consequences are far more dire. Don't worry about your ink, but do buy local fruit and veges.

Just my tuppence-worth...