144 Vs 142 And G-letter !?

[JonRis]

Just got a new very nice Montblanc green striated "Masterpiece 144G".

 

http://www.tradera.com/Montblanc-Masterpiece-Reservoarpenna-auktion_302300_115161956#pic

 

When looking at at all the pictures at Maxpens.de which I often use to identify Montblanc pens

I see that there is another model 142 which is very similar..... This leads me to a few questions:

 

- what is the difference between 142 and 144?

- what does G stand for

- When was my pen "Masterpiece 144G" most likely manufactured

- Are there twins that are labeled Meisterstuck also for the german market since

I guess the Masterpiece must have been an export version?

 

Can anyone help? The pen is in excellent condition and it would be good to know more about it!

 

Jon

Edited July 19, 2010 by JonRis

[jar]

The final number was related to the relative size of the nib, a 2 is smaller than a 4.

 

There has been lots of discussion about the exact meaning of 'G' at different times and models. The question is still open.

 

Masterpiece was for export to the English speaking markets.

 

edited to add requisite spallin arrors

Edited July 19, 2010 by jar

[JonRis]

OK; thanks JAR - so basically 144 and 142 is the same pen but with different sizes of the nib!

When was this pen manufactured - 1950-ties, or??

 

/Jon

[penparadise]

OK; thanks JAR - so basically 144 and 142 is the same pen but with different sizes of the nib!

When was this pen manufactured - 1950-ties, or??

 

/Jon

No, it's not just the size of the nib, it's the size of the whole pen.

There have been 3 sizes: 142, 144 and 146. And yes, they are from the 50th.

 

Axel

[raulfragoso]

Just got a new very nice Montblanc green striated "Masterpiece 144G".

 

http://www.tradera.com/Montblanc-Masterpiece-Reservoarpenna-auktion_302300_115161956#pic

 

When looking at at all the pictures at Maxpens.de which I often use to identify Montblanc pens

I see that there is another model 142 which is very similar..... This leads me to a few questions:

 

- what is the difference between 142 and 144?

- what does G stand for

- When was my pen "Masterpiece 144G" most likely manufactured

- Are there twins that are labeled Meisterstuck also for the german market since

I guess the Masterpiece must have been an export version?

 

Can anyone help? The pen is in excellent condition and it would be good to know more about it!

 

Jon

 

- The difference between 142 and 144 is the overall size of the pen (analogically the difference in size is 142 < 144 < 146 < 149);

- The "G", according to some sources, means that the nib is made of gold instead of steel (the production of this pen started after the second World War, hence gold was still scarce);

- It was produced in the 1950's, between 1949 and 1960;

- I never saw any 144G with the "Meisterstuck" engraving, but the experts could give some more specific comments on that;

 

Regardless of anything, your pen is a beauty ! Enjoy your new companion in good health for many years to come

Edited July 19, 2010 by raulfragoso

[JonRis]

Thanks for all answers!

It is for sure a beautiful pen and writes very smooth!

Jon

[jar]

OK; thanks JAR - so basically 144 and 142 is the same pen but with different sizes of the nib!

When was this pen manufactured - 1950-ties, or??

 

/Jon

 

No, as mentioned above the length and girth of the 142 is also smaller than the 146.

[CS388]

I wonder if the G could stand for green (grun) - in the same way that the R can stand for red (rot), on the burgundy meisterstucks?

 

Probably discussed at length elsewhere, as mentioned above, but just wondering.

[niksch]

I wonder if the G could stand for green (grun) - in the same way that the R can stand for red (rot), on the burgundy meisterstucks?

 

Why would my black 144G have a G on it then?

[niksch]

- The difference between 142 and 144 is the overall size of the pen (analogically the difference in size is 142 < 144 < 146 < 149);

- The "G", according to some sources, means that the nib is made of gold instead of steel (the production of this pen started after the second World War, hence gold was still scarce);

 

The nib size dictates the pen size, not necessarily just because it's a bigger number. As discussed many times before 1= Meisterstueck quality, 4 = Piston Filler, 2/4/6/9 = nib size.

 

I don't necessarily buy the argument that the G stands for GOLD on the 14x series of pens. Maybe for the 342 and 344 pens. The 14x series only came with bi-color 14C nibs when the new design was released in the late 40s, so why would there need to be a G in that case?

 

- It was produced in the 1950's, between 1949 and 1960;

;

 

The pens designated with a G after the model number (142G, 144G, 146G) were the earliest of the 14x series produced, between 1948 and 1952 or so, the striated celluloid was not used until 1951 or 52. Two distinct characteristics of model with a G include a flat feed and a nib with cross-hatching on the background of the "M" on the nib.

 

Celluloid 142, 144, 146s (without the G) were produced until 1959, although I'm sure many remained unsold into the early 60s.

 

- I never saw any 144G with the "Meisterstuck" engraving, but the experts could give some more specific comments on that

 

Look a little harder then because there are thousands out there with Meisterstuck on the center cap ring.

Edited July 19, 2010 by niksch

[raulfragoso]

That's why I love this place ! Thanks for correcting me and providing all that great info, niksch

[Deirdre]

G is a gold nib.

[CS388]

I wonder if the G could stand for green (grun) - in the same way that the R can stand for red (rot), on the burgundy meisterstucks?

 

Why would my black 144G have a G on it then?

 

Ah. Strike that idea, then. Was just a guess. 2+2=5

[CS388]

G is a gold nib.

 

I see. Thank you.

 

Edited to thank niksch, too, for fuller explanation.

Edited July 19, 2010 by CS388

[penparadise]

G is a gold nib.

Well, that would mean that all 146 without the G had Steel nibs? Gold plated nibs? ? ?

According to Rösler and some other collectors the "G" stood for "glanz" (glossy) = special polished barrel and cap.

But Niksch's explanation sound good to me too.

 

Axel

Edited July 21, 2010 by penparadise

[Deirdre]

There were a lot more steel-nibbed MB pens back then. I've had equally glossy pens with and without the G suffix, though.

[kaushla]

G is a gold nib.

Well, that would mean that all 146 without the G had Steel nibs? Gold plated nibs? ? ?

According to Rösler and some other collectors the "G" stood for "glanz" (glossy) = special polished barrel and cap.

But Niksch's explanation sound good to me too.

 

Axel

I have seen such arguments on fountain pen forums of the late 1990s and the early years of the 21st century. With my circumscribed knowledge, I would suggest that there are elements of validity in the various theories being put forward but there are still gaps in information and contradictory evidence as well. Before WW2, when there were chased pattern MBs, the suffix 'G' almost certainly meant smooth as opposed to chased pens which which had the suffix 'S'. Similarly wartime and immediate post-war Germany had dire shortages of gold and increased use was made of more alloy nibs. Rare examples of two-tone alloy nibs have been seen as well. During this latter period the suffix G on the pens probably meant that the nibs were gold as opposed to other alloys. Though 14x pens appear exclusively to have been made with gold nibs, other MB series continued to be produced after the war as well and the distinction might have been between these pens and the new 14x series. When only the 14x series remained, the use of the G suffix also probably lapsed gradually. Almost invariably the G on post-war 14x pens is associated with flat feeds though I have learnt for the first time from Niksch's explanation that these early pens had a cross-hatching in the circle with the M logo, a tribute to his keen powers of observation. Certainly, the 144G I use has this crosshatching. I wonder if the longer ink window is also associated with the G-suffixed pens. The Monterosa 042G which I had was fitted with a 14C nib also marked 585. The Monterosa 042 had gold-plated nibs. In 1992, the Montblanc boutique in Geneva (on Rue du Montblanc, incidentally) refused initially to accept that it was made by Montblanc. That was the thinking of the precious resin age.

 

There are othe conundrums as well. I got no satisfactory explanation for the odd symbols which are sometimes found next to some nib size markings on the blind caps of the 14x series pens of the 1950s.

[kaushla]

There were a lot more steel-nibbed MB pens back then. I've had equally glossy pens with and without the G suffix, though.

 

Do you mean glossy pens from before World War 2? The argument being made is that the suffix G did not relate to the nib in pre-war pens but to the surface characteristic of the hard rubber or celluloid of which the pen was composed.

[niksch]

Do you mean glossy pens from before World War 2? The argument being made is that the suffix G did not relate to the nib in pre-war pens but to the surface characteristic of the hard rubber or celluloid of which the pen was composed.

 

 

In the 30s, and primarily with the Meisterstück 10x (102, 104, 106, 108 safety fillers) and 12x (122, 124, 126, 128 push knob fillers) series of pens, MB used a letter identifier after the model imprint on the turning knob to identify patterns or materials. I

 

The 10x sereis came with:

E = Rose pattern

S = chased or hatched

G = High gloss

 

The 12x series came with those above and the following:

PL = Gray & silver striated (commonly referred to as platinum)

P = Black & pearl mottled

K = short

 

It does not appear to me that these identifiers were used on the 13x piston filler series. With the exception of some special metal overlays, the entire range had the gloss finish.

 

The only two identifiers that were held over into the 50s were G & K. K was used on Model 172 pencils and clearly indicates short (kurz).

 

G remains in debate.

 

The 10x and 12x only came with bi-color nibs. there are examples of 13x series pens with steel nibs, but clearly the war and resulting material shortages/rationing contributed to substitutes. My study of the company and it's [vintage] marketing practices leads me to believe that the 14x series of pen, a major aesthetic design change of the flagship Meisterstück series, would not have been released with steel nibs.

 

I have seen 14x series pens with steel nibs. But when I've disassembled them, the nibs were stamped, 132, 134, or 136. I've never seen a steel nib stamped with the corresponding 14x model number.

 

edited for more precise language.

Edited July 31, 2010 by niksch

[shrinknib]

wow.

there is a lot of knowledge and learning going on here.

Thanks to all.

 

A side question with respect to the 13x series.

Were 139's made with steel or gold nibs?