A Parker 51 Buying Guide?

[xsquared]

Hello,

 

I've been semi-interested in purchasing a Parker 51 (or similar style) fountain pen. I'm still using my first fountain pen, a Pilot 78G. Having now owned a modern pen for about 6 months, I wanted to try a vintage fountain pen and from a bit of online searching, the Parker 51 seems to be a popular choice.

 

I searched eBay and I can find Parker 51's listed from $15 to $1,200. From my understanding, they were produced over such a long period and with different stylistic elements (such as the blue jewel in early models) that their worth fluctuates widely. I've found a wealth of websites that describe the history of the 51 and its small design changes over the years. As a newcomer, though, it is difficult to judge the pen from just an outside picture or two. Also, many sites seem to say that all 51s without a known history should be sent in to have the rubber sac and other components replaced.

 

Are there any good tips for buying such a pen, or is it better to just play it by ear and watch the other bidders? As it also seems the pens need an overhaul before use, is it more economical to purchase a refurbished pen from another site?

 

I've also seen the Parker 21 which appears to be quite similar to the Parker 51, but sold for a lower price and made with cheaper components. How does their writing compare? I wasn't sure if their price difference reflected more on their availability, or their quality.

 

If I understand correctly, the actual writing of the mechanism was only redesigned once throughout the history of the 51. This would lead me to believe that the writing quality of the 51 does not differ much between individual pens. As I am more interested in how well it writes versus its worth as a collection item, then maybe it would be better to stick to lower priced pens as they all have the same mechanism?

 

Although I stumbled across the Parker 51 as a popular vintage pen, I'd like to hear of any other recommended starter vintage models. Price range is likely under $100.

 

Thank you,

xsquared

[Bill Smith]

My suggestion is to check out the website http://www.parker51.com it is a detailed clearing house of information and they have some pens for sale.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Bill Smith

[Breck]

You can often find them in the Marketplace here on FPN, for sale from trusted members, and you can buy with the invaluable known history.

 

*cough* signature line *cough*

 

Regardless, there are two great profiles of the "21" and "51" on Richardspens.com. I just re-read the piece on the "21" a few days ago because I couldn't remember what the story was with that pen. Turns out it's a cosmetic copycat of the "51", but with a very different and conventional nib and feed.

 

Watching auctions is always a good plan, but you have to collect a lot of data points before you can really get a feel for pricing. As a (very) rough guide, I'd suggest the following as a skeleton of an ascending price structure:

 

1) Aeromatic fillers in common colors (grey, black, burgundy, maybe teal) with Lustraloy caps

2) As above with gold filled caps or in less common colors (midnight blue, forest green, plum, cocoa) with Lustraloy caps

3) Uncommon colors with GF caps

4) Single jewel Vacumatic fillers in common colors (black, cedar blue, cordovan) with Lustraloy caps

5) As above with GF, Sterling or Stacked Coin caps

6) As (4), but double-jeweled

7) As (4), but uncommon colors (Nassau green, Yellowstone, Buckskin)

8) As (7), but with GF, Sterling, or Stacked Coin caps

9) As (8), but double-jeweled

...

...

...

n-2) as (9), but with a 14K cap in a relatively common pattern

n-1) as (9), but with Empire cap, or one of like scarcity

n) The Presidential in 14K Gold

 

 

Anyway, that's *very* rough, and doesn't include Flighters, Signets, pens with 14K trim, the British 9K and 18K Presidentials; I've probably mis-ranked some colors, and may well have overstated the value of a Stacked Coin cap due to seller's bias.

 

The relative value of Vacumatics over Aerometrics is certainly subject to debate as well, but it seems like I've seen Vacs tend go for slightly higher when two otherwise identical pens go head-to-head.

 

And obviously, there's no mention of condition in this ad hoc ranking, either. That's a huge deal.

 

Good luck looking for your first vintage pen, and first "51". Whatever you do, don't sell it! I sold my first, and will regret it forever.

 

 

 

*edited to remove a stray "or"

Edited June 10, 2009 by Murderface

[Parker51]

I would suggest caution in buying your first Parker 51 from a Seller through the organization you mentioned due to the unknown conditions that you will face. The pen may be wonderful, but it may need to be cleaned, or it may need a minor repair, or it might need major work. You can never be sure when you are buying primarily based upon pictures. Many of the seller do not know much about what they are selling. I do honestly buy off Eba, and have since before they went public, however I know I am taking a gamble and am prepared to get some great pens, some good pens and some that I either will have to work on or I will need to pay someone else to work on to complete a quality repair.

 

For what you want to pay you can purchase one from a reputable dealer that will stand behind what they are selling, and will sell you a Parker 51 with a smooth nib in the size you want. Use it well and it will last you a lifetime. They are great pens.

[PenFisher]

The Parker "51" is a great pen to start down the "vintage pen" road with. In fact, it is so good that you may stay on that path for a long time. There were so many of these pens produced that the market is always filled with a wide variety of "51"s at all price levels. Essentially you will have two choices of "51"s - either vacumatic fillers with a plunger/diaphragm mechanism or an aerometric filler system with a squeeze type bladder system. The first "51"s were vacumatic fillers (1941-48) followed by the aerometrics (1948-72). For your first foray into these pens I would go for an aerometric since it is more likely to be in good working order. The vac fillers are fine except that you really need to know when the diaphragm was last changed so that you don't have any unexpected surprises. The key to enjoying any "51" is like any other pen -- you must find one with a good nib that suits you. This really means that you are likely to own many "51"s in the process until you find the one that is just right. Actually, the hunt for the perfect pen is part of the fun. I would think that you could get a very good aerometric for around $65 and then take it from there. Believe me when I tell you that you won't end up owning just one of these amazing pens. Good luck and welcome to Club "51" !

[Hugh200au]

To add my "two bobs" worth, avoid most 21's. The standard 21 is a good writer but they tend to suffer from plastic shrinkage and cracks in the hood...which causes ink to leaks out onto your fingers. The Super 21 is better and has a similiar basic design to the 51 but with an octanium ( alloy) nib. The 51 Special ( in this case the special means cheaper rather than better) also has the octanium nib ( although some are found with 14ct gold ones) and is a good writer and cheaper than a standard 51. A 51 Special has the same filler as a 21, a black cap "jewel" and dosen't suffer from plastic problems , it represents (IMO) exceptional value for money/performance. A standard 51 Aerometric (1. on Murderfaces list) is the next step up and is all that is needed as a user pen.

 

Regards

Hugh

[richardandtracy]

You can also get a reasonable P61's for the price of a standard P51.

The P61 is very similar to the P51 (being initially viewed by Parker as a P51 replacement), only newer, slimmer & more refined. But.. It has the same plastic issues as the P21, and the capilliary fill version is harder work to keep going. The c/c version is a really nice pen. It may be better to go for the P51 to start off with though.

 

My suggestion would be to aim for a price of no more than say $75 (£50) and get a reasonable black/lustraloy pen as your first P51. Then use it for a month before deciding if you like it or hate it. The P51 isn't flashy, and I'd be surprised if it's love at first use. However, after a month I'm sure you'll be really attached to it.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

[prisonrodeo]

I'd also echo Hugh's praise for the Super 21s. I have a half-dozen that are my daily "users," and I like them every bit as much as my aero 51s. Also, if you're vigilant, you can often find a Super 21 for very little $ on (e.g.) eBay, particularly if it's listed as a plain-vanilla "21." The key is to check out the nibs (the Super has a "51-style" hood) and/or the clips (Supers mostly have arrow clips); Richard Binder's website has nice illustrations of the differences. I've landed Super 21s for as little as $5-6 plus shipping that way.

[sherbie]

I'd like to add my 2 penneth

 

I'm fairly new to pen collecting (less than 8 months, although its a bug thats bitten me rather hard). I started by buying my first P51 from a reputable dealer for a fair amount of money. Nothing wrong with that, as its a lovely early 1960's USA forest green aerometric in brilliant condition. However, I'm reluctant to use it often as I'm fairly clumsy, and frightened of dropping, scratching etc the pen at work. However, what I've found (and thats also been mentioned above and in other trails) is that you have to try a few pens before you stumble on your "perfect writer" - my ratio is around 2 in 12 and counting (as I said, I'm bitten bad!).

 

But, I've found that aerometrics are really easy to get back up and running with little more than an overnight soak and some flushing with water, but the real fun of this hobby is finding one in the wild for a few ££, and getting it back up working after up to 60 years of neglect.

 

If one of those pens just happens to be your "brilliant writer", then life doesnt get much sweeter than this. Recently I've found another aero forest green 1949 USA (for £7), and a teal (for £3), and these two pens are just amazing to write with.

 

cheers, Sherbie

 

 

 

 

[andyk]

Hi,

 

I know everyone says beware, buy from a recognised dealer etc, but if you are looking for a basic user grade 51, you can pick them up quite cheaply on ebay, if you like them (and not everyone does) then you can look at a better more expensive example.

 

Maybe I have just been lucky, but I have bought a variety of them one ebay/bootfairs etc and have only had 2 that caused problems or just didn't work, a Vac which needed a new diaphragm and an Aero which wouldn't fill properly and had a broken breather tube (could hear it rattling when I shook the pen).

 

Aeros are pretty bulletproof, yet to find one yet where the ink sac had perished but I understand they do turn up, Vacs will almost always need a new diaphragm (unless they have been restored), so you need to factor in the cost of that.

 

Anyway, good luck with the search and let us know how you get on.

 

Andy

[welch]

I will reply, as I always do on this topic: buy your first P51 from one of the known-good sellers. Not on eBay. There you run a risk of needing to rehab the fillling mechanism (almost always if it's a P51 Vacumatic); even if you avoid that one, you stab yourself with The Great Nib Question. I call it a "Question" because you have no idea what condition the nib is in. The pen is probably around 50 years old, just to pick a time when the aerometric filler is probably still good. That's 50 years of writing by unknown people on unknown surfaces.

 

Yes, the P51 is my favorite pen (except I really like the P75???), and I write with one almost all day every day. I have a P51 vac an a P51 special in my pocket just now.

 

However: the Special is one of a batch of pens I received today: P51 aerometric, P51 aero demi, P51 Special, and P21. Only the P21 will put ink on paper, and this one has such a strange nib that I'm not surprised that Parker wouldn't put an arrow on the clip. So that's three out of four that will require some gut-cleaning.

 

Buy safe for your first one...then take chances on eBay.

[xsquared]

Thanks for all the replies and the wealth of information.

 

I was actually quite surprised by how well my first pen, the Pilot 78G, wrote. It lacks the history of a vintage pen, though. I find it fascinating to be able to own a pen used by many other people, for a variety purposes, and then maybe neglected and resurrected--an unknown history just not possible with a new pen. (Hopefully it was well cared for, though!)

 

I'll definitely post a follow up on FPN.

 

xsquared

[xsquared]

I wanted to thank everyone for their valuable advice. I ended up purchasing a 51 from dannzeman, and received it in the mail today. I am extremely impressed--the quality of the pen and the writing is nothing less than amazing. A handwriting sample with the pen here.

 

Thanks again,

xsquared

[welch]

A good P51 is like nothing else. I have one that is so smooth I think it writes by itself. Concratulation!

[skybird]

I wanted to thank everyone for their valuable advice. I ended up purchasing a 51 from dannzeman, and received it in the mail today. I am extremely impressed--the quality of the pen and the writing is nothing less than amazing. A handwriting sample with the pen here.

 

Thanks again,

xsquared

OK,

Now that's the first one.

Interesting that you chose "In the beginning" etc.

Because this won't be your last pen. And it wont be your last 51 either.

Welcome to the club!

[tsunami31]

There's some excellent advice here and some superb explanations for some of the reasons for price variations.

 

However, the market (like most markets) is not 'perfect'. Ebay particularly throws up all sorts of price anomalies. Prices can depend on numerous factors, eg. time zones and timing of auction completion, numbers of P51s being offered at any particular time, quality of photographs/presentation and - it seems - most of all, the number of feedbacks a seller has.

 

I put it that way because, as someone who has started selling off some of his collection, I am suffering a lot on the latter point. The prices I'm getting, with a relatively low number of feedback points (having recently started) are pathetic. On at least three occasions dealers and other ebay users with more points have bought pens from me, relisted them for 50 to 100% more than they paid me. In one case, the buyer/onseller even used my photos and text and got 50% more for the pen !

 

It grates - not because of the money - but because feedback points after a while are more a mark of longevity, rather than trustworthiness. Often, I feel insulted because I feel potential purchasers who shunned my listing, but piled in when the item was listed by someone else, seem to be impugning my integrity.

 

Rant over, but there are lessons to be learnt from this:-

 

1) There are genuine bargains to be had on ebay, particularly if you can find someone who has recently joined and has a rating of over, say 30 (also, generally ebay prices are lower than I've seen at pen shows);

 

2) You pay a premium for buying from a dealer or a high feedback score ebayer. There's some good justification for that premium (peace of mind), but you must recognise that it is a premium (ie., it is above market 'value'). I started by buying from trusted dealers, as all beginners should, but I've never got my money back from selling a pen that I bought from a dealer, let alone made a profit on one.

 

I'm not knocking dealers: there are many excellent ones out there who are happy to teach you all sorts of stuff and you know you'll be getting a great restored pen from them. Also, they serve an important role in the market and deserve to make money from years of accumulated knowledge.

 

All I'm doing is explaining another reason for what can sometimes seem to be be huge price variations out there. Once you have built up greater understanding and made some mistakes you can start having fun picking up pens to try at more reasonable prices.

 

 

Regards Richard

Edited June 24, 2009 by tsunami31

[welch]

I know that it's small consolation if you are getting under-bid because you haven't been selling on eBay long, but I often judge a pen by the quality of the description.

 

For instance, if the seller seems to know nothing about pens, and even says "I won't describe it because I don't know these old things", I expect a ratty pen.

 

If the seller takes some time to describe the pen, and not just "very shiny and has plastic jewel on cap", I guess that the seller knows something, and I'm more likely to bid. I'd probably be more likely to bid on your pen, if I had the money that week, because you probably would describe details like the health of the filling system or the nib-quality.

 

How about FPN marketplace, though?

 

 

 

There's some excellent advice here and some superb explanations for some of the reasons for price variations.

 

However, the market (like most markets) is not 'perfect'. Ebay particularly throws up all sorts of price anomalies. Prices can depend on numerous factors, eg. time zones and timing of auction completion, numbers of P51s being offered at any particular time, quality of photographs/presentation and - it seems - most of all, the number of feedbacks a seller has.

 

I put it that way because, as someone who has started selling off some of his collection, I am suffering a lot on the latter point. The prices I'm getting, with a relatively low number of feedback points (having recently started) are pathetic. On at least three occasions dealers and other ebay users with more points have bought pens from me, relisted them for 50 to 100% more than they paid me. In one case, the buyer/onseller even used my photos and text and got 50% more for the pen !

 

It grates - not because of the money - but because feedback points after a while are more a mark of longevity, rather than trustworthiness. Often, I feel insulted because I feel potential purchasers who shunned my listing, but piled in when the item was listed by someone else, seem to be impugning my integrity.

 

Rant over, but there are lessons to be learnt from this:-

 

1) There are genuine bargains to be had on ebay, particularly if you can find someone who has recently joined and has a rating of over, say 30 (also, generally ebay prices are lower than I've seen at pen shows);

 

2) You pay a premium for buying from a dealer or a high feedback score ebayer. There's some good justification for that premium (peace of mind), but you must recognise that it is a premium (ie., it is above market 'value'). I started by buying from trusted dealers, as all beginners should, but I've never got my money back from selling a pen that I bought from a dealer, let alone made a profit on one.

 

I'm not knocking dealers: there are many excellent ones out there who are happy to teach you all sorts of stuff and you know you'll be getting a great restored pen from them. Also, they serve an important role in the market and deserve to make money from years of accumulated knowledge.

 

All I'm doing is explaining another reason for what can sometimes seem to be be huge price variations out there. Once you have built up greater understanding and made some mistakes you can start having fun picking up pens to try at more reasonable prices.

 

 

Regards Richard