MB Hemingway owners

[archie001]

Rev,

 

That is very well put, indeed.

 

I struggle with some of Montblanc's new pens on the basis of weight, and I am moving towards light pens in almost all my buying. (I was very disappointed when I missed a new ebonite AtB Bexley in the FPN classified.) As you wrote, center of gravity should also be considered when buying a pen. The way around the problem with the modern 146 is to not cap it when writing. If you want an extreme example of the problem, put a Shaw in your hand.

 

Fred

When you put an uncapped 146 on your hand you'll notice that the point of ballance is somewhere in the mid barrel of the pen. When you write with it, uncapped, how could you say that the pen is in ballanced condition in your hand? In my opinion a pen could only be ballanced in your hand when writing if you use it capped.

Edited February 12, 2009 by archie001

[FredRydr]

It appears you define a "balanced" pen as a pen with its center of balance in the center of the pen. That may be a nice thing, but it doesn't define a balanced pen in my hand.

 

Fred

Edited February 12, 2009 by FredRydr

[archie001]

In response to the discussion of materials used for the bodies of vintage vs modern Montblancs, I will say these things:

 

1. I actually like the feel of modern Montblanc resin

 

2. All modern resins are not the same material. There are marked differences in thickness, density, durability, texture, gloss, and even warmth. Montblanc resin feels distinctly nicer to me than many other manufacturers' resins.

 

I am inclined to believe that modern montblancs are better built than the vintage ones.

They gained technological experiences in their field in years which naturally make them able to build better products - and we can't ignore that. Vintage pens are lovable in the sense of their history and I love them too, but modern pens are moderner and qualitatively built better than the old ones. This is just my opinion though!

[archie001]

It appears you define a "balanced" pen as a pen with its center of balance in the center of the pen. That may be a nice thing, but it doesn't define a balanced pen in my hand.

 

Fred

I'll be happy to know your definition of a balance pen in the hand when writing!

That will be additional knowledge for me...please clarify!

 

thanks,

archie

Edited February 13, 2009 by archie001

[niksch]

I am inclined to believe that modern montblancs are better built than the vintage ones.

I disagree vigorously, but you have your opinion.

 

They gained technological experiences in their field in years which naturally make them able to build better products - and we can't ignore that. Vintage pens are lovable in the sense of their history and I love them too, but modern pens are moderner and qualitatively built better than the old ones.

 

Your use of the phrase "qualitatively built better" leads me to believe you don't really understand design and construction processes. Technological advances allowed MB to use more modern materials (and manufacture those pens in a more efficient manner), but that does not mean that they are better materials or that they are constructed any better.

Edited February 12, 2009 by niksch

[archie001]

I am inclined to believe that modern montblancs are better built than the vintage ones.

 

 

I disagree vigorously, but you have your opinion.

 

They gained technological experiences in their field in years which naturally make them able to build better products - and we can't ignore that. Vintage pens are lovable in the sense of their history and I love them too, but modern pens are moderner and qualitatively built better than the old ones.

 

Your use of the phrase "qualitatively built better" leads me to believe you don't really understand design and construction processes. Technological advances allowed MB to use more modern materials (and manufacture those pens in a more efficient manner), but that does not mean that they are better materials.

And that could mean otherwise? I told you that is my opinion and I stick to it!

I'd rather drive a modern ferrari or porche than the old ones for comfort and securrity! isn't it better? :roflmho:

The old ones simply stay in my museum for exibition!

 

And please don't speak much of design and construction though you repair an assortment of vintage pens!

Edited February 12, 2009 by archie001

[niksch]

And that could mean otherwise? I told you that is my opinion and I stick to it!

It absolutely means otherwise. Your opinion is uninformed. And, I fail to see how a comparison of a pen with a complex machine such as an automobile is worthwhile. Especially since your original premise is that technological advances in materials must improve the construction of a fountain pen.

Edited February 12, 2009 by niksch

[archie001]

And that could mean otherwise? I told you that is my opinion and I stick to it!

Your opinion is uninformed. And, I fail to see how a comparison to an automobile is worthwhile.

you speak of design and construction in general! And your knowledge of vintage pens does not relate to it or over exagerated!

i beg you to stay out of construction and design. repairing vintage pens doesn't touch to it all!

Edited February 12, 2009 by archie001

[niksch]

i beg you to stay out of construction and design. repairing vintage pens doesn't touch to it all!

 

I'm an industrial engineer and know a few things about industrial processes and design of systems AND products.

[archie001]

And that could mean otherwise? I told you that is my opinion and I stick to it!

It absolutely means otherwise. Your opinion is uninformed. And, I fail to see how a comparison of a pen with a complex machine such as an automobile is worthwhile. Especially since your original premise is that technological advances in materials must improve the construction of a fountain pen.

don't you believe in modern technology? if you believe that vintage is technologically better in all aspects then I don't argue with you!

We are miles apart on this! You must understand design and construction first before you can bring this into our topic, and the way I see you don't know about it. I know you repair broken pistons of FP but it's not yet design on your part!

 

[archie001]

i beg you to stay out of construction and design. repairing vintage pens doesn't touch to it all!

 

I'm an industrial engineer and know a few things about industrial processes and design of systems AND products.

 

Huh? Then you must be vintage industrial engineer! I won't argue anymore!

And have fun repairing your vintage pen, I might send you my modern 149 some day when it get broke.

Can you repair it?

Edited February 12, 2009 by archie001

[Blade Runner]

Hate to see my favorite MB pals spat. Time for a Pepsi break.

To each his/her own.

 

Best,

Jeen

 

[QM2]

I am inclined to believe that modern montblancs are better built than the vintage ones.

They gained technological experiences in their field in years which naturally make them able to build better products - and we can't ignore that. Vintage pens are lovable in the sense of their history and I love them too, but modern pens are moderner and qualitatively built better than the old ones. This is just my opinion though!

 

Just want to clarify that I do not share this opinion, and it is not what I meant in my earlier post which you quoted.

 

I have a subjective preference for modern MB resins over the 1940s+ celluloids, but I have no opinion regarding which is the objectively better product. Furthermore, I think that it is impossible to form an opinion regarding this issue, until a sufficient amount of time goes by and we see how the modern pens hold up. Only then will we have appropriate data to compare modern pens to vintage ones.

[Diamondback]

How can one fail to appreciate and love vintage MB celluloids like these?:

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk48/evansm92/Fountain%20Pens/MB25Coral2.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk48/evansm92/Fountain%20Pens/MB25Coral3.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk48/evansm92/Fountain%20Pens/MB2461.jpg

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk48/evansm92/Fountain%20Pens/MB2462.jpg

 

Mark

[niksch]

Huh? Then you must be vintage industrial engineer! I won't argue anymore!

And have fun repairing your vintage pen, I might send you my modern 149 some day when it get broke.

Can you repair it?

 

I find it amusing that with no knowledge of me, my background or experiences, you attact me to deflect attention from the illogical argument you initially made: that technological advances automatically improve construction of pens.

They gained technological experiences in their field in years which naturally make them able to build better products...

 

My argument is that technological advances may have improved materials and production efficiency, but the product is not necessarily better. I'm sure you could continue to obfuscate and attempt to deflect attention to your statement by providing a littany of products such as your automobile example, but let's talk about pens.

 

My experience in repairing vintage 14x series AND modern 14x series MB pens has shown me that despite changes in materials, the construction process is basically the same, and this repair experience is very relevant to my argument. Nibs are still friction fit into the section, the sections still thread into fore-end of the barrel, the piston mechanism still threads into the back end of the barrel. So the construction and assembly of the 14x fountain pen is fundamentally the same.

 

What has changed the most, in design and construction, is the piston mechanism. Instead of a sturdy two-stage telescoping metal mechanism as in 1950s 14x pens, the modern version is a one-stage plastic gizmo consisting of an exterior-threaded rod and interior-threaded tube that holds the piston seal, and is actuated forward and rearward when one turns the turning knob.

 

There can be no argument that the change from celluloid to resin/plastic in 1960, and change in piston design, improved MBs ability to produce more pens less expensively. But we can debate at length whether the result is an improved or better product.

 

edited to add: I should have mentioned this. One 'material' improvement is certainly the elastomer piston seal. That is a significant improvement over the cork seal of vintage MBs. Vintage MBs seals must still be repaired with cork replacements because of shrinkage of the celluloid barrels.

Edited February 13, 2009 by niksch

[QM2]

How can one fail to appreciate and love vintage MB celluloids like these?:

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk48/evansm92/Fountain%20Pens/MB25Coral2.jpg

 

I make an exception for pre-1940s celluloids : )

I do love and appreciate that coral! Can I have it?.. Borrow it?

 

[niksch]

[i might send you my modern 149 some day when it get broke. Can you repair it?

 

Depending on the problem, and if I have the correct part, yes I can repair it.

[niksch]

Mark-

 

What is the brand of that case? How many pens does it hold, etc?

 

Eric

 

 

[QM2]

What is the brand of that case? How many pens does it hold, etc?

 

I believe it is a Piquadro 2-pen case. They are truly wonderful.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2009 by QM2

[Diamondback]

What is the brand of that case? How many pens does it hold, etc?

 

I believe it is a Piquadro 2-pen case. They are truly wonderful.

 

QM2 is right on. Beautiful soft pliable Italian leather and well constructed to boot.

 

Mark