Custom nib with dramatic line variation

[winsonli]

For the past few months, I have been researching about custom nib regrinds. What I want is a pen which produces dramatic line variation while still being suitable for daily use. The Sailor pens appeal to me, so I should be ordering one of them with a regrind. However my only experience with an italic nib is the Lamy 1.1mm italic. There are so many options for regrinding and I don't know which one to choose. Please help me decide which kinds of customization best suits my purpose.

 

Italic vs Cursive Italic?

 

If I am correct, the Lamy italic nibs should be cursive italic. I have totally no problems with the nib. I don't find it scratchy at all. Do you think I can handle an sharp italic nib with ease after some practice? Or is it just unsuitable for daily writing?

 

Oblique?

 

This one confuses me. From what I've read, oblique italic nibs are able to produce line variations in diagonal lines. An ordinary italic nib should only be able to give line variation between horizontal and vertical lines. However, I am able to achieve diagonal line variation with the Lamy italic nib, which is not oblique (neutral?). So is it that I don't need obliqueness?

 

Flex?

 

I have totally no experience with flex nibs. I don't know if flex could be added to a Sailor nib, but in general, are flex nibs suitable for daily use?

 

I am willing to spend some time to learn and get used with the customized nib. The only requirement is that I should be able to write at normal writing speed, or perhaps a little bit slower. I am not intending to get a pen for calligraphy.

[liapuyat]

For the past few months, I have been researching about custom nib regrinds. What I want is a pen which produces dramatic line variation while still being suitable for daily use. The Sailor pens appeal to me, so I should be ordering one of them with a regrind. However my only experience with an italic nib is the Lamy 1.1mm italic. There are so many options for regrinding and I don't know which one to choose. Please help me decide which kinds of customization best suits my purpose.

 

... I am willing to spend some time to learn and get used with the customized nib. The only requirement is that I should be able to write at normal writing speed, or perhaps a little bit slower. I am not intending to get a pen for calligraphy.

 

See the writing samples on nibs.com (Mottishaw's site) and richardspens.com (Binder's site). See what you prefer. There are explanations there

 

My vote would go to cursive italic. You decide how wide (in .mms) you want your writing line to be.

Edited January 29, 2009 by liapuyat

[winsonli]

For the past few months, I have been researching about custom nib regrinds. What I want is a pen which produces dramatic line variation while still being suitable for daily use. The Sailor pens appeal to me, so I should be ordering one of them with a regrind. However my only experience with an italic nib is the Lamy 1.1mm italic. There are so many options for regrinding and I don't know which one to choose. Please help me decide which kinds of customization best suits my purpose.

 

... I am willing to spend some time to learn and get used with the customized nib. The only requirement is that I should be able to write at normal writing speed, or perhaps a little bit slower. I am not intending to get a pen for calligraphy.

 

See the writing samples on nibs.com (Mottishaw's site) and richardspens.com (Binder's site). See what you prefer. There are explanations there

 

My vote would go to cursive italic. You decide how wide (in .mms) you want your writing line to be.

 

I like the 0.7mm crisp italic on Binder's site. The cursive italic ones do not provide enough line variation I want. Are crisp italics very position sensitive? Would I be able to use them with ease after a few weeks of practice?

 

[QM2]

Hi,

 

First off, cursive italic is a subtype of italic. The main three types of italic nibs are: formal (also called crisp and sharp), cursive, and stub. Formal/crisp/sharp is suitable for calligraphy only. Stub is suitable for daily writing, but the line variation is pretty mild. Cursive italic falls in between these two and is exactly what you want: it offers dramatic line variation, while still being suitable for everyday use.

 

If you send your nib to Richard Binder or John Mottishaw, I would actually use that very phrase. Tell them that you would like a cursive italic "with dramatic line variation, while still being suitable for everyday use". When I get my nibs done, I actually ask them to increase the variation on the cursive italic slightly, but stop short of making it a sharp/formal italic.

 

Hope this helps,

QM2

 

 

Edited January 29, 2009 by QM2

[Edgar Allan Bo]

I like the 0.7mm crisp italic on Binder's site. The cursive italic ones do not provide enough line variation I want. Are crisp italics very position sensitive? Would I be able to use them with ease after a few weeks of practice?

 

I got a 0,7 crisp italic on a Pelikan M200 from Richard Binder last month and it's really great, great line variation, BUT it's VERY VERY sharp... it's not a problem for me because most of the time I'm writing with dip pen nibs and some of them are even sharper - so I could write very comfortably with the Binder crisp italic!

 

But I can imagine it to be problematic for people who never used very sharp dip pen nib and write only with fountain pens, the writing position is very important... just slightly off position and it will catch up in the paper or scratch across the page... it's VERY crisp! But I like it that way!

[Rena]

I agree with QM2 that you probably want a cursive italic nib. Or, if you have a semi-flex nib that you'd like ground to cursive italic, that may give you what you want — I have one such nib and it's one of my favorites.

 

I have a Pelikan nib which Richard Binder ground to a crisp italic. I can only use this for calligraphy since it writes on the down strokes. The additional push strokes in cursive writing are impossible with this nib.

[lefty928]

I don't think you need an oblique tip on your pen, if you're righthanded and don't rotate your pen. I'd go with QM2's advice, but you could first visit an art store and pick up an inexpensive dip pen holder and a couple italic nibs -- say a regular italic and also a lefthanded one if LH nibs are available. With a bottle of dip-pen-suitable ink (in the U.S., that usually starts off as Higgins Eternal), for little outlay you can see for yourself what writing in your normal hand with a sharp italic and a left oblique nib is like. You could also get in some advance practice on the best position for you for writing with a sharp italic.

Edited January 29, 2009 by lefty928

[Bearcat]

 

 

Try a Medium Stub from Richard Binder. Nice line variation and also very smooth to write with....YMMV.

[winsonli]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Now after QM2 and sk2yskine have described how sharp a crisp italic is, I think that's not what I want.

 

Rena,

 

How does the semi-flex cursive italic writes? Is it tricky to use for daily writing? I really want to try a flex nib.

 

Also, is a semi-flex nib so delicate that I'll risk damaging them (sprung?) when too much pressure is applied? How much is too much?

 

Lefty928,

 

That's a good idea. If I can handle a very sharp italic dip nib, then a crisp italic should be no problem for me, I guess.

 

 

 

[NYLegMan]

SEND A WRITING SAMPLE sample to the nibmeisters.... I'm also looking to experiment with an Oblique, although not as broad as you want.

 

I obtained a BEAUTIFUL Pelikan 805, all black with silver trim with a medium nib ground to a fine cursive Italic from John Mottishaw at nibs.com. His work is excellent and he is extremely helpful, as is his entire staff. I haven't had any experience with Binder, but I would assume he would welcome your inquiry as well.

 

Have fun!!!

 

[lefty928]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Now after QM2 and sk2yskine have described how sharp a crisp italic is, I think that's not what I want.

 

Rena,

 

How does the semi-flex cursive italic writes? Is it tricky to use for daily writing? I really want to try a flex nib.

 

Also, is a semi-flex nib so delicate that I'll risk damaging them (sprung?) when too much pressure is applied? How much is too much?

 

Lefty928,

 

That's a good idea. If I can handle a very sharp italic dip nib, then a crisp italic should be no problem for me, I guess.

 

Sounds like you already know you will be fine with a cursive italic, so it makes sense to experiment with your other options. You might be able to find a flexible nib to play with, too, and dip pen nibs can be very flexy! Different people write with different pressure, so it's hard to answer your question about how much pressure is too much. You have to apply some pressure to get a semi-flex to show line variation.

 

[winsonli]

Thanks for the reply, you guys are very helpful.

 

For a semi-flex cursive italic nib, does the added flex change the way the nib is used? In other words, can I use a semi-flex nib like a non-flex one when I do not apply pressure to take advantage of the flex? Hope you get what I mean.

 

Experimenting with dip pens first is a good idea, but I do not know where to look for them in Hong Kong. I'll try to look around next week, or perhaps order some online.

[jmkeuning]

ItaliFine?

[Rena]

Rena,

 

How does the semi-flex cursive italic writes? Is it tricky to use for daily writing? I really want to try a flex nib.

 

Also, is a semi-flex nib so delicate that I'll risk damaging them (sprung?) when too much pressure is applied? How much is too much?

 

Here is a photo of the pen I was speaking of, with writing sample. I'll attempt some closer shots of the nib, with samples to show writing with and without pressure. I'm not sure if my photographic skills are up to it, but will try — I might not be able to get to it until tomorrow though. I've been using this pen daily for around 7 months — it's a favorite nib.

 

I guess there is always a danger of springing any nib with too much pressure. I love full flex nibs, semi-flex, and just springy ones. I don't know quite how to describe enough pressure or too much. It's easier to "feel" as you actually use a pen, rather than describing in words. With a new-to-me flexy nib in hand, I would start with minimal pressure (probably with tines pressed on my thumb nail) to see how soft it is. Somehow my hand understands when I feel and see how it flexes. I would then ink it and write, trusting my hand and my eye to gauge the amount the nib can take without stressing it. I'm not an expert with flex, just one who enjoys it. I have never sprung a nib. I tend to be cautious. I don't consider my flex nibs delicate either (I have a couple vintage Waterman full flex nibs). Hope this helps.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k313/Cankapopa/OmasOgivaVisGT.jpg

 

 

[winsonli]

Rena,

 

Wow, that is very impressive. Most likely I'll order a semi-flex cursive italic nib on a Sailor 1911. What size is your nib? And does it require a lot of attention to use?

[asimplemaestro]

ItaliFine?

 

Ditto on the vote for the italiFine...or anything else from Binder while I'm at it. Here is a review of a Montblanc I just got back from Binder with a .7mm cursive italic. Hope it helps.

[RevAaron]

Oblique?

 

This one confuses me. From what I've read, oblique italic nibs are able to produce line variations in diagonal lines. An ordinary italic nib should only be able to give line variation between horizontal and vertical lines. However, I am able to achieve diagonal line variation with the Lamy italic nib, which is not oblique (neutral?). So is it that I don't need obliqueness?

 

And oblique nib is a nib cut at an angle. Traditionally, an oblique nib gives you line variation. However, companies like Pelikan and Lamy have switched to ball obliques which give little or not line variation while still calling them obliques. As such, most nibmeisters will call the obliques with line variation "oblique stubs," etc.

 

The angled cut on an oblique nib makes the down and side strokes the same width while the NW to SE strokes are wide and the SW to NE are thin. This allows a person who holds their pen straight on with some rotation to get the same kind of line variation that you get with an italic or stub nib without having to hook your hand in like you do when writing in a calligraphic hand.

 

I'm someone who hooks his hand in when writing with a normal nib, which makes my writing with a stub look identical to my writing with an oblique.

 

Something that's interesting to me is that my Binder stub has less variation than a vintage stub; seems that you have to go for a cursive italic or oblique cursive italic to get the variation of a vintage stubs or oblique.

 

[StephY]

For what it's worth, when I had two nibs ground by Richard at the Philadelphia Pen Show this past weekend, he looked at the way I hold my pen, which is fairly straight on, and recommended that I go neutral - i.e. no oblique.

 

I like a stub for an every day writer, but I do agree that cursive italic will give more variation if that's what you are after.

 

Winson, Happy Year of the Ox!

[winsonli]

Thanks for suggesting the ItaliFine nib, but I am not interested in it. Also, I suspect that it can't be put onto a flex nib?

 

I asked Jonella, and she wouldn't recommend adding flex to the 21K Sailor nibs. Looks like I have to either forget about adding flex or find another pen which I like.

 

RevAaron,

 

Thanks for the picture, that's very informative. I've decided that I'll go with a neutral nib.

 

StephY,

Thanks. Wish you all the best in this year of the Ox.

[StephY]

I asked Jonella, and she wouldn't recommend adding flex to the 21K Sailor nibs. Looks like I have to either forget about adding flex or find another pen which I like.

 

If I remember correctly, Richard suggests sticking with 14k nibs if you are going to add flex to it. I think it's pretty hard even on a 18k nib.