Whats so special about GREGG Nib on a Snorkel ?

[goodguy]

I just won on eBay Snorkel number 21 a Sage green Admiral with a GREGG Nib.

I dont have a GREGG Nib and I never seen one so my question is

 

1.Whats so special about a GREGG Nib ?

2.Why were GREGG Nibs made ?

3.Do they feel different then a regular Sheaffer nib ?

4.Do they add to the pens value ?

 

OOps this was suposted to be posted in the Sheaffer Forum-Sorry

Edited August 28, 2008 by goodguy

[JohnS-MI]

The only usage of the term I am familiar with is on Esterbrook pens. There, it refers to a nib optimized for taking Gregg shorthand, and is very firm. I suspect it means the same thing on your pen, but I'm not sure.

[rroossinck]

At least one person I know has indicated that he's got a few Gregg-nibbed Snorks that show a bit more spring/flex than most of the rest of his Snorkel nibs. I doubt that any of 'em would be considered wet noodles, though.

[PenHero]

Just won a Sheaffer Snorkel Admial with a GREGG Nib on eBay and its the first time I ever got a Snorkel with such a nib so I have few questions:

 

1.Whats so special about a GREGG Nib ?

2.Why were GREGG Nibs made ?

3.Do they feel different then a regular Sheaffer nib ?

4.Does it add to the value of the pen ?

 

Gregg nibs are shorthand nibs, named for the Gregg shorthand system from the Gregg Publishing company. Many pen manufacturers offered Gregg nibs, examples can be found back into the 1920s, with some being marked with special logos on the caps (Wahl did this) or a shorthand mark on the nib section (usually what you find on Sheaffer pens). Gregg nibs should be firm fine nibs with a special grind for shorthand writers, at a time when shorthand was widely used for recording meetings and depositions. There may be a modest value add for a Gregg nib on a pen, but they are not nearly as valued as stubs or music nibs.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

[goodguy]

Thank you very much Jim

 

This answer all my questions

[teej47]

Awesome... Now can someone explain why a Gregg Ruled steno book has a red line down the middle of the page?

 

Tim

(who wonders this probably 20 times a day while jotting notes in one)

[Iridium]

I just won on eBay Snorkel number 21 a Sage green Admiral with a GREGG Nib.

 

Nice score! I'm trying to start a Snorkel collection, and I think I just missed that one (been searching in the completed items list). I also missed what looks like a Fiesta Red Snorkel that went for only $49 (not in the best condition, though).

 

I think that your questions have pretty much been answered, but I still wonder what exactly is so special about the nib in terms of facilitating shorthand. Is it just really, really, extra-fine, or what? Maybe people who use shorthand are trained to write very small so that they would have to flip the page less frequently. Just guessing.

[BillTheEditor]

I just won on eBay Snorkel number 21 a Sage green Admiral with a GREGG Nib.

 

Nice score! I'm trying to start a Snorkel collection, and I think I just missed that one (been searching in the completed items list). I also missed what looks like a Fiesta Red Snorkel that went for only $49 (not in the best condition, though).

 

I think that your questions have pretty much been answered, but I still wonder what exactly is so special about the nib in terms of facilitating shorthand. Is it just really, really, extra-fine, or what? Maybe people who use shorthand are trained to write very small so that they would have to flip the page less frequently. Just guessing.

Gregg nibs are firm and fine, not xxf, and the tipping is shaped a bit differently. I believe the feeds were designed to support rapid pen strokes. (can't be sure -- I have an Estie Gregg nib, but can't confirm this feature). Gregg shorthand is not small, and does not need to be. Some of my wife's nursing school notes in shorthand are around here somewhere (if she hasn't thrown them out since last time I looked) and there's an amazing amount of literal lecture transcription packed into what looks like an amazingly small number of strokes, hooks, curlicues, and funny-looking marks. Gregg shorthand is all done in lines of uniform width. This helps the stenographer write very fast. (The world record for Gregg shorthand is 282 wpm; when I was last in a company where shorthand was a requirement for secretaries, the fastest secretary on staff -- mine -- could do about 150 wpm. I think the minimum speed required was 85 wpm, and most of our secretaries clocked in around 100 wpm. The fastest stenographers used to be courtroom reporters, who could keep up with lawyers and witnesses spewing out nearly 200 wpm.)

 

I wish I had taken shorthand in high school. It would be so handy for interviews. There are still courses available online, and maybe in journalism schools.

 

There are other systems of shorthand, by the way. One of them, Pitman, is popular in England and is #2 in the US. The Pitman stenographer uses (used? -- they probably use pencils now) a semi-flex nib because the length, direction, and width of each stroke is significant. This doesn't mean it is slow. The record for Pitman shorthand is 350 wpm, set in 1922. Reporters tended (before tape recorders) to like Pitman because it is fast, and (in my opinion) simpler than Gregg.

Edited August 29, 2008 by BillTheEditor

[BillTheEditor]

Awesome... Now can someone explain why a Gregg Ruled steno book has a red line down the middle of the page?

 

Tim

(who wonders this probably 20 times a day while jotting notes in one)

Purely to guide the writer's hand. It's not a margin. Since hardly anyone takes Gregg dictation any more, it's only a matter of time before that red line -- now vestigial -- disappears forever. A little more business history will die when it does.

 

Here's everything you need to know about Gregg, in a short course.

 

Maybe I should try teaching myself how to do this. :roflmho:

[BillTheEditor]

At least one person I know has indicated that he's got a few Gregg-nibbed Snorks that show a bit more spring/flex than most of the rest of his Snorkel nibs. I doubt that any of 'em would be considered wet noodles, though.

Those flexy ones were probably meant for use with Pitman shorthand, rather than Gregg. See my earlier post.

[Iridium]

Thanks for the info--it's very interesting. I've seen examples of shorthand before and didn't think that the marks were small, so I was really grasping at straws there. Although this particular specialization may not increase the value of a pen by much, if at all, I'll keep my eyes open to get at least one example in my collection someday. Gee, I've hardly started, but I already see no end in sight.

[BillTheEditor]

Thanks for the info--it's very interesting. I've seen examples of shorthand before and didn't think that the marks were small, so I was really grasping at straws there. Although this particular specialization may not increase the value of a pen by much, if at all, I'll keep my eyes open to get at least one example in my collection someday. Gee, I've hardly started, but I already see no end in sight.

Sheaffer, I believe, produced pens that had the Gregg brand on them. There may have been other brands that also did that. Could make an interesting sub-set to a collection. As a sub-set, the group as a whole could be valued higher than the sum of the values of the individual pens.

[Judybug]

Awesome... Now can someone explain why a Gregg Ruled steno book has a red line down the middle of the page?

 

Tim

(who wonders this probably 20 times a day while jotting notes in one)

 

My mother was very good at taking shorthand and I took several shorthand courses in college many moons ago. The red line separates two columns of writing. It's faster to write down the column on the left side of the page and then continue on the column on the right side - that way you don't lose time moving your hand across the whole width of the page.

 

Judybug

 

[BillTheEditor]

The red line separates two columns of writing. It's faster to write down the column on the left side of the page and then continue on the column on the right side - that way you don't lose time moving your hand across the whole width of the page.

I stand corrected.

 

I'd only seen examples of two-column use with Pitman. Makes sense though.

 

Wonder how shorthand works for left-handers? Those who hook their hands over the line of writing must have a hard time with that spiral binding.

[goodguy]

Interesting how this nib took a turn from a nib to shorthand but I am not complaining this was a very interesting new thing I just learned.

Thanks everybody

[RLTodd]

AIR, the various forms of speedwriting were the popular way for people who needed to take notes, never needed to take dictation, and couldn't spare the time to learn Gregg or Pittman.

 

Some of the speedwriting systems claim to take less than a day and achieve 100 wpm in less than a week.

 

 

[SallyLyn]

I think the reason nibs or pens were marked "Gregg" was a Branding thing. As folks have noted there were several shorthand systems. "Gregg" became a popular one, maybe taught in public schools and many business schools. So you could have your "Gregg" notebook, Estie with "Gregg" nib, various Sheaffers with "Gregg" nibs and logo. I don't know what else "Gregg".

 

 

[dcjacobson]

I think that your questions have pretty much been answered, but I still wonder what exactly is so special about the nib in terms of facilitating shorthand.

 

I think the above poster has it right about "branding." I have several Sheaffer pens (Snorkel, Touchdown, Tuckaway) with the Gregg nib. I've written with them and look at them under a magnifier, and to me they are no different from a fine point, maybe extra fine. Maybe a Gregg expert, should one be still alive, could tell the difference.

 

Martin J. Dupraw, the world-famous Gregg speed champion, endorsed Sheaffer ballpoints. I think it's safe to to assume that in the 1950s even shorthand practitioners were giving up fountain pens just as the general population was.

 

Good luck,

Don

[teej47]

My mother was very good at taking shorthand and I took several shorthand courses in college many moons ago. The red line separates two columns of writing. It's faster to write down the column on the left side of the page and then continue on the column on the right side - that way you don't lose time moving your hand across the whole width of the page.

 

Judybug

Wow! That makes perfect sense ... In fact it seems pretty obvious now (why else would you divide a page into two even columns? Probably not 'proto-excel'...) Thanks. I bet lefties flipped the pad over so the spiral binding was at the bottom.

 

Tim

(looking for something else to wonder about now...)

[goodguy]

And I thought Gregg was a guy who made nibs to sheaffer pens like Bock makes nibs to Omas