What do the numbers mean on vintage nibs?

[lak611]

Most of my pens are modern, so I am familiar with XF, F, M, B, etc. nibs. Occasionally, I have looked at vintage pens on eBay. What are #4, #5, #6, etc. nibs? How can I compare the vintage nib numbering to the modern designations of nib sizes?

[burmeseboyz]

Most of my pens are modern, so I am familiar with XF, F, M, B, etc. nibs. Occasionally, I have looked at vintage pens on eBay. What are #4, #5, #6, etc. nibs? How can I compare the vintage nib numbering to the modern designations of nib sizes?

 

I think the significance of nib numbers vary from model and manufacturer, but usually they indicate what type of nib they are. Not so much the size of the tip, like medium, fine, bold etc. For example, a sheaffer #5 nib is larger than their #3 nib but a #5 nib with a fine tip and a #3 nib with a fine tip will make the same size line. I hope that makes sense.

 

Also, a word about ebay, assume that all vintage pens will need restoration/repair. Unless if the seller states that they've been restored.

 

Edit: Oh you're from cleveland? My brother works at the clinic and his girlfriend is at rainbow babies.

Edited July 17, 2008 by burmeseboyz

[lak611]

Most of my pens are modern, so I am familiar with XF, F, M, B, etc. nibs. Occasionally, I have looked at vintage pens on eBay. What are #4, #5, #6, etc. nibs? How can I compare the vintage nib numbering to the modern designations of nib sizes?

 

I think the significance of nib numbers vary from model and manufacturer, but usually they indicate what type of nib they are. Not so much the size of the tip, like medium, fine, bold etc. For example, a sheaffer #5 nib is larger than their #3 nib but a #5 nib with a fine tip and a #3 nib with a fine tip will make the same size line. I hope that makes sense.

 

Also, a word about ebay, assume that all vintage pens will need restoration/repair. Unless if the seller states that they've been restored.

 

Edit: Oh you're from cleveland? My brother works at the clinic and his girlfriend is at rainbow babies.

Thanks! I have a vintage Sheaffer that a friend bought me. I have no idea what kind it is. It is a black plastic pen without a white dot. It has the name and address of the company stamped into the barrel. The nib says Sheaffer's Feather Touch Made in USA 5 14K. The slit in the nib has a little heart. It writes a fairly fine line.

 

I just did a little research online and found out that my pen is a Sheaffer Touchdown Craftsman.

Edited July 17, 2008 by lak611

[simonrob]

Most of my pens are modern, so I am familiar with XF, F, M, B, etc. nibs. Occasionally, I have looked at vintage pens on eBay. What are #4, #5, #6, etc. nibs? How can I compare the vintage nib numbering to the modern designations of nib sizes?

 

Usually it refers to the size of the nib (though some numbers with some companies are date codes, some Montblancs have the height of Mont Blanc in meters, etc.) and has nothing to do with the size of the tip. So, for instance, a Waterman 52 would have a #2 nib, which is smaller than the #4 nib in a 54, and so on all the way up to the #8 in the 58 (but these aren't all to the same scale - there's a later Waterman #17 nib, which isn't 8.5 times as big as a #2 nib...). Any of these nibs could have any size tip - you could get an extra-fine #58, for instance - in any degree of flexibility, and sometimes could be stubs or obliques; but typically size-numbered nibs don't also tell you anything about flex or tip size. To make it all even more confusing, among companies that put size numbers on pens there's no precise uniformity across company lines - you can't assume that a Swan #4 will be exactly the same size as a Waterman #4, and while they're nevertheless fairly similar, Warranted in particular seem to run small - their nibs are usually notably smaller than other companies' nibs with the same number. When you toss in the fact that many nib manufacturers don't put size numbers on the nibs anyway, it becomes even less helpful.

 

At any rate, the answer to your second question is simple: you can't!

 

Simon

 

 

[lak611]

Most of my pens are modern, so I am familiar with XF, F, M, B, etc. nibs. Occasionally, I have looked at vintage pens on eBay. What are #4, #5, #6, etc. nibs? How can I compare the vintage nib numbering to the modern designations of nib sizes?

 

Usually it refers to the size of the nib (though some numbers with some companies are date codes, some Montblancs have the height of Mont Blanc in meters, etc.) and has nothing to do with the size of the tip. So, for instance, a Waterman 52 would have a #2 nib, which is smaller than the #4 nib in a 54, and so on all the way up to the #8 in the 58 (but these aren't all to the same scale - there's a later Waterman #17 nib, which isn't 8.5 times as big as a #2 nib...). Any of these nibs could have any size tip - you could get an extra-fine #58, for instance - in any degree of flexibility, and sometimes could be stubs or obliques; but typically size-numbered nibs don't also tell you anything about flex or tip size. To make it all even more confusing, among companies that put size numbers on pens there's no precise uniformity across company lines - you can't assume that a Swan #4 will be exactly the same size as a Waterman #4, and while they're nevertheless fairly similar, Warranted in particular seem to run small - their nibs are usually notably smaller than other companies' nibs with the same number. When you toss in the fact that many nib manufacturers don't put size numbers on the nibs anyway, it becomes even less helpful.

 

At any rate, the answer to your second question is simple: you can't!

 

Simon

So how do I know if the nib will be fine, medium or broad if I buy a vintage pen?

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

So how do I know if the nib will be fine, medium or broad if I buy a vintage pen?

 

You ask the seller. If they do not know, then you take your chances.

 

There are a few exceptions, such as Sheaffer Snorkels, that had nib-codes, but for the most part you have to rely on the seller to identify the point-size.

 

John

 

[EventHorizon]

Esterbrooks are easy as they made very clear charts as to what each nib did. Waterman is not so easy but they also had nib charts (Link to chart here).

 

As for other vintage pens (i.e. 3rd tier pens) they usually have something like durex #4 or duriam #6. In short, the smaller the number the finer the nib based on the ones I have. Over time you kind of get a feel for what the nib is based on a good picture. It's some what easy to distinguish a fine nib from a broad nib or italic nib so by default, it must be a medium nib if it none of the previous. At best, this will get you close.

Edited July 17, 2008 by EventHorizon

[lak611]

Esterbrooks are easy as they made very clear charts as to what each nib did. Waterman is not so easy but they also had nib charts (Link to chart here).

 

As for other vintage pens (i.e. 3rd tier pens) they usually have something like durex #4 or duriam #6. In short, the smaller the number the finer the nib based on the ones I have. Over time you kind of get a feel for what the nib is based on a good picture. It's some what easy to distinguish a fine nib from a broad nib or italic nib so by default, it must be a medium nib if it none of the previous. At best, this will get you close.

Thank you! This is very helpful.

 

[simonrob]

So how do I know if the nib will be fine, medium or broad if I buy a vintage pen?

 

With most vintage pens there's no way of knowing unless you can see it in person or a good close-up photo of the nib or can rely on the seller to describe it fairly accurately. There are exceptions - Esterbrook's number codes are the most precise and helpful, provided you know what their terms mean, Waterman's colour codes help a bit for the short period when they used them, and after a certain point German manufacturers tended to put the nib size on the nib and/or barrel - but they're still exceptions (and with German nibs you should know that "B" doesn't mean the same as a modern broad; rather, it's a medium stub (and BB is a broad stub)). If you like fine or extrafine nibs you're in luck - for some reason, by far the majority of surviving American vintage pens seem to have fine or extrafine nibs (at least, that's the impression I get perusing catalogues, ebay, etc.).

 

Simon