Catalog of "wet vs dry" ink

[JDlugosz]

As you may notice, I'm a newcomer to all this, but I'm learning a lot. Part of using the tool effectivly as a means of expression, not to mention simply using it as a practical tool, is finding the right ink for the pen and desired effect. This is more than just color, but how it flows. The simplest description is "wet" vs "dry". For example, the first ink I tried in a new F-nib was too dry to be useful, so I switched to a wetter ink.

 

Well, trying two inks back-to-back in the same pen, especially if one is unacceptable or otherwise markably different in effect than the other, is something to note and remember.

 

So, I propose sharing such definite observations, on this thread.

 

I will collect them and by combining information, generate more interesting charts. You know the old puzzles if Stan is taller than Jan and Pan is shorter than Sarah etc then asks the relationship between two items that are not given explicitly? Well, I can automate that in a Perl script or spreadsheet.

 

Now there might be contradictions or other odd things, so I need a little bit more information, and in a consistent way. Here is my first formal observation report, to serve as a prototype:

 

PR Copper Burst

is dryer than

Visconti Sepia

in

Pilot Crystal F-nib {898-2}

Hero 300 Gold Cloisonné

 

First line is the first ink. Spell the name correctly! Brand first, common abbreviations for the brand are OK.

second line "is dryer than" (the only choice for now)

Third line is the second ink.

next line is "in"

Subsequent lines are pens that this is being noted in. As shown here, I make the same observation in two pens. This might be common, as I'll try an ink in a dry and a wet pen, and then switch them. So you can combine the same observation into multiple pens in one report.

When posting reports, be exactly consistent in naming your pens. Alternatively, as shown in my first one, if you have an ID number you can put it in curlies, and then I'll match off that rather than the string. When I make another observation report about the Hero, I'll copy/paste this one so I know it will be denoted exactly the same; and I'll just edit the ink name.

 

—John

[lak611]

I am interested, but I do not really have anything to contribute myself. I have only used Parker Quink ink. I would like to see what other people have to say, so I am subscribing to this topic.

[amper]

I would think that Noodler's Polar Blue and Polar Black inks would probably qualify for the extreme end of the wet side of the scale.

[lak611]

I would think that Noodler's Polar Blue and Polar Black inks would probably qualify for the extreme end of the wet side of the scale.

How do the Noodler's inks work in your Pelikans? I have M400, M800 and M1000 with medium nibs. Would this ink be too wet for these pens?

[Martius]

Interesting. I've never tried the Polar black, but Eel black seems to run dry in all the pens I use it in. Well, not necessarily dry, but about a line width narrower than other inks.

[captnemo]

Noodlers Glacier Blue = very wet

Noodlers Hunter Green = wet

Noodlers Black = about normal (whatever that means)

Noodlers Apache Sunset = very dry (but fixable by adding a wetting agent)

[andrewboy]

Mont Blanc Bordeaux is my nomination for the dry category. Even in my normally very wet Waterman Expert, it still seems scratchy!

 

Andrew

[kookychick]

My experiences, using a Sensa Meridian, custom ground to 0.3mm:

 

FPN/Noodler's Galileo Manuscript Brown -- very wet

 

J. Herbin Violette Pensee -- wet

 

Noodler's Hunter Green -- wet

Noodler's Legal Lapis -- wet

Noodler's Lermontov -- very dry

Noodler's Lotus Grace -- very dry

Noodler's Majestic Orange -- average

Noodler's Polar Blue -- wet

Noodler's Rachmaninov -- very dry

Noodler's The Violet Vote/Iraqi Indigo -- average

 

Swisher's/Noodler's Aquamarine Contract Ink -- wet

 

The "very dry" Noodler's is fine with either some diluted water or diluted water + InkSafe.

[rogerb]

I'll try to follow your 'format', John, although I have to correct the spelling

 

I have tried to compare roughly similar colours

 

Diamine Kelly Green is drier than Herbin Reseda Vert (or Diamine Woodland Green)

in a Pekian 200

 

Diamine Maroon is drier than FPN Tulipe Noire

in a Delta Alfa 1750

 

Diamine Sapphire is drier than Baystate Blue

in a Vacumatic

 

Diamine Brilliant Red is drier than Diamine Passion Red (or Monaco Red)

in a Delta Alfa Monza LE

 

YMMV, and I'm not sure how useful this is, as the possible combinations are endless!

 

Probably just better to say, as most have, which inks we've found to be generally dry or wet?

 

I'd say my driest have been Brilliant Red and Kelly Green, and wettest Tulipe Noire and Baystate Blue.

 

Edited June 8, 2008 by rogerb

[JDlugosz]

The "very dry" Noodler's is fine with either some diluted water or diluted water + InkSafe.

 

Doesn't adding water make it dryer, by diluting the surfactant?

 

--John

[kookychick]

The "very dry" Noodler's is fine with either some diluted water or diluted water + InkSafe.

 

Doesn't adding water make it dryer, by diluting the surfactant?

 

--John

 

I guess it depends on what you mean by "dry." For example, I LOVE the neon pink Rachmaninov for editing/making margin notes. But undiluted, it's so dry that if you pause for a couple of seconds (literally!) it stops writing and you have to doodle to get it started again. If you leave it for a few hours with the pen capped, it dries up and needs some water to get it started again. I dilute it approximately 2:1 ink:water, and it doesn't dry up in the nib even if you don't use it for a few days. You can also pause for a little while when writing and it doesn't stop/skip on you. The color is basically the same because it's so saturated (maybe ever so slightly lighter pink, but barely noticeable--it's still give-you-a-migraine-looking-directly-at-the-sun bright).

 

If by "dry" you mean the silkiness of the nib + ink interaction while writing, then I'm not sure how to evaluate that--I'm not very picky about that, and I can't really use Rachmaninov well enough undiluted to judge if it's more slippery while writing with it. All I know is that diluted, the lubricity is acceptable to me!

 

Hope that helps!

[JDlugosz]

The "very dry" Noodler's is fine with either some diluted water or diluted water + InkSafe.

 

Doesn't adding water make it dryer, by diluting the surfactant?

 

--John

 

I guess it depends on what you mean by "dry." For example, I LOVE the neon pink Rachmaninov for editing/making margin notes. But undiluted, it's so dry that if you pause for a couple of seconds (literally!) it stops writing and you have to doodle to get it started again. If you leave it for a few hours with the pen capped, it dries up and needs some water to get it started again. I dilute it approximately 2:1 ink:water, and it doesn't dry up in the nib even if you don't use it for a few days. You can also pause for a little while when writing and it doesn't stop/skip on you. The color is basically the same because it's so saturated (maybe ever so slightly lighter pink, but barely noticeable--it's still give-you-a-migraine-looking-directly-at-the-sun bright).

 

If by "dry" you mean the silkiness of the nib + ink interaction while writing, then I'm not sure how to evaluate that--I'm not very picky about that, and I can't really use Rachmaninov well enough undiluted to judge if it's more slippery while writing with it. All I know is that diluted, the lubricity is acceptable to me!

 

Hope that helps!

 

I'm specifically talking about how it flows onto the paper. Not the molar concentration of stuff in the solvent, but how the liquid has an affinity for the paper and nib as opposed to balling up on itself. Ink is physically "wetter" than plain water.

[Limerick]

I can only compile a list of inks I have enough experience with, but hope this helps. I'm myself always hunting wet inks, so I really appreciate all the information gathered here.

 

Private Reserve Fast Dry Inks - very wet

Noodler's Baystate Series - very wet

Waterman Florida Blue - wet

Parker Quink Washable Black - wet

Noodler's Heart of Darkness - wet

Aurora Black - average

Noodler's Navajo Turquoise - average

Pelikan Brillant Red - average

Waterman Black - average

Noodler's Bulletproof Black - average

Pelikan Royal Blue - dry

Pelikan Brillant Black - dry

Lamy Black (and the Blue) - dry

MontBlanc Black - dry

 

 

Not having found a very dry ink yet. Generally, I try to avoid inks when they have the reputation to be very dry because to me personally, it's annoying writing with dry inks. I found some average inks to be annoying already (Brillant Red), so I don't wish to get down the scale!

 

Just based on my observations, YMMV

Edited June 9, 2008 by Limerick

[kookychick]

I'm specifically talking about how it flows onto the paper. Not the molar concentration of stuff in the solvent, but how the liquid has an affinity for the paper and nib as opposed to balling up on itself. Ink is physically "wetter" than plain water.

 

In that case, it probably does make it "drier." It doesn't bother me, but if that's an issue, there's always InkSafe, which I've found to help the nib glide a bit better on paper. I don't know what's in it, but it makes the nib feel more slippery on the page! (No affiliation, just a happy customer.)

[JDlugosz]

In that case, it probably does make it "drier." It doesn't bother me, but if that's an issue, there's always InkSafe, which I've found to help the nib glide a bit better on paper. I don't know what's in it, but it makes the nib feel more slippery on the page! (No affiliation, just a happy customer.)

 

I could add pure Triton X-100 to make it wetter. I've not tried, because I tend to have problems with inks being too wet, not too dry, for my style. But I suspect a toothpick dipped in X-100 and then stirred into a whole bottle would be the right amount. It would be more challenging to treat a few ml only. Probably dilute the X-100 10:1 and then toothpick that into the 5ml vial one dip at a time until it feels right.

 

I'll offer a 5ml vial of Triton X-100 along with inks on the Ink Exchange on equal terms.

 

--John

 

[lak611]

[in that case, it probably does make it "drier." It doesn't bother me, but if that's an issue, there's always InkSafe, which I've found to help the nib glide a bit better on paper. I don't know what's in it, but it makes the nib feel more slippery on the page! (No affiliation, just a happy customer.)

What is InkSafe? Do you know what chemicals are in it?

 

[YorkshireCaviar]

I had no idea until I read this thread that inks varied in their 'wetness' (yes I really am that new to all of this)... It does explain something to me though (and here I apologise if I offend some people by owning up to using cartridges rather than bottled ink), as I have found that Parker blue-black in my Parker 45 is great in my Moleskine, but if I try using the same pen and nib with Parker's green ink the pen is incredibly scratchy.

 

I admit that as Parker no longer make the green cartridges I had to import from America and they may be old, but I would have thought that in a cartridge ink could last indefinitely? After reading this thread I am tempted to try out other types of ink in my spare 45 now! I have just always been put off by the converters for the Parker,as they never seem to hold much ink and are messy, but I shall give it another go.

 

Thank you all.

 

Mr B.

[inkobsessed]

Interesting question John. I listed below all the inks that I use or have used in my fountainpens, (Lamy Accent(MK, F), Lamy Joy (1.1 mm), Pelikan M200 (F), Sheaffer Prelude (M), Sheaffer No Nonsense (M), Parker 45 (M), Parker 75 (M), Parker Latitude (M), Parker Sonnet (F).

I wonder if there will be a lot of differences between the reactions on your question.

 

Aurora Blue - average

Diamine Prussian Blue - dry

J.Herbin Black - very wet

J.Herbin Bleu Nuit - average

J.Herbin Coffee Brown - very dry

J.Herbin Sapphire Blue - wet

Lamy Black - average

Lamy Blue - dry

Lamy Blue/Black(bottled / iron gall) - very dry

Lamy Blue/Black(cartridge / non-iron gall) - dry

Lamy Green - dry

Lamy Red - dry

Mont Blanc Blue - average

Mont Blanc Blue/Black(iron gall) – very dry

Parker Penman Mocha - dry

Parker Penman Sapphire - average

Parker Quink Black Permanent – wet

Parker Quink Blue / Black - wet

Parker Quink Blue Permanent - average

Parker Quink Blue Washable - wet

Parker Quink Green - average

Parker Quink Purple(mini cartridge) - average

Parker Quink Red - wet

Pelikan Black - dry

Pelikan Blue/Black - dry

Pelikan Brown - dry

Pelikan Fount India - very dry

Pelikan Royal Blue- dry

Roting Black - average

Roting Sienna Brown - average

Sheaffer Skript Black(Slovenia) - wet

Sheaffer Skript Blue(Slovenia) - wet

Sheaffer Skript Blue/Black(Slovenia) - wet

Sheaffer Skript Jet Black(pre-Slovenia) - wet

Visconti Blue - dry

Waterman Black - wet

Waterman Blue/Black - average

Waterman Florida Blue - average

Waterman Green - wet

Waterman Havanna Brown - average

Waterman South Sea Blue - average

Waterman Violet – average

[pengoddess]

I think this is fun, and I'm enjoying reading the thread, but unless you compare apples to apples and keep your variables all the same, you'll get a lot of different flow rates going on causing an ink to appear/feel wet or dry.

 

Not all pens are created equally and throw in paper, temp, humidity and even maybe what ink was in your pen before this one, they all make for a variances. ie: Legal Lapis in my Sailor Super Script writes sort of dry side to me, but in a Reform it's quite wet. So much of this is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes we can only eek out so much scientific data before we remember the artsy non-scientific part of pens and inks.

 

Sam

[el3ssar]

I think this is fun, and I'm enjoying reading the thread, but unless you compare apples to apples and keep your variables all the same, you'll get a lot of different flow rates going on causing an ink to appear/feel wet or dry.

 

Not all pens are created equally and throw in paper, temp, humidity and even maybe what ink was in your pen before this one, they all make for a variances. ie: Legal Lapis in my Sailor Super Script writes sort of dry side to me, but in a Reform it's quite wet. So much of this is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes we can only eek out so much scientific data before we remember the artsy non-scientific part of pens and inks.

 

Sam

 

 

This is true, but we can also spot some trend with time, thanks to pen and ink rotations.

 

 

I can add to this thread, from my (small) own experience, with my Sailor ProGear M nib :

 

Wet----------------------------------------------------------------------Dry

Sailor Blue Black > Diamine Blue Black > Diamine Royal blue > Parker Quink Blue