Carbon Copy paper disaster

[ilubiano]

I was in my chemistry laboratory today, and we take down all of our observations and results in these laboratory carbon copy notebooks.

 

Not ever having really used a fountain pen with one of these, i decided to bring one to class today. Boy, was it a mistake. The paper just plain did not like the fountain pen. It wouldn't copy well no matter how hard i pressed, only very faintly compared to BP. This was a pen with absolutely no nib flex whatsoever too, none at all.

 

To make matters worse, I went overboard with the pressure and ended up snapping half of the tip off of my pen's nib. It looks like it has half a nib now. Luckily it was just my wing sung mini pen, so it's not a big loss, but it was most certainly a sobering experience. I am soooo glad that i did not bring my Phileas, and I know now for certain to never even begin to attempt to use my Parker Vac on such writing surface. Boy, what a mess.

 

Luckily, the pen decided not to spit the private reserve avocado inside everywhere, or else that would have just added insult to injury. I had to fall back to using my zebra ballpoint backup. I was not exactly in the best of moods the rest of the day, and i should make a point of apologizing to my lab partner next time we meet.

 

 

Anyone have other experience with fountain pens and carbon copies? Are they something where I just HAVE to use a ballpoint?

 

 

I shouldn't look at this completely negatively though, I mean, since the pen is still in operable condition, feed and nib mostly, this is a perfect excuse to order some materials and practice grinding. Maybe I can get a nice fat stub out of this one.

 

Anyway, just thought i'd share my aggravating experience today with everyone here.

 

 

Ivan :roflmho:

[sbullock]

manifold nibs are supposedly capable, ive never tried one though

[BirdValiant]

Maybe Carbon-Copy was one of the reasons why people started to prefer ballpoints. If this is true, then the decline of carbon copy can mean the rise of FPs!

 

Whenever I deal with CC's, I use a ballpoint because I don't want to apply too much pressure to my Phileas which is my only fountain pen. After feeding lil' Phil out of a bottle, carrying him everywhere, and general good parenting, I don't want to risk any damage. :ltcapd:

[BruceK]

Sailor claims that CC use is one of the main reasons they came out with the Trident. From what I can tell using such a pen for a little while it is indeed perfectly suited for the task. No "regular" nib to break off.

 

[Ernst Bitterman]

Actually, I think the Phileas might be up to the challenge. It certainly manages carbonless forms like its goo-filled idiot cousins. I'm thinking of making off today with my wife's 9461 Estie point, which is specifically meant to be a manifold, to see how it runs in that regard. A trick-- take the angle of writing up to about 65-70 degrees so the force you put on the pen is a little more in line with the long axis of the pen. I generally go for a shallow angle, but when faced with copies, steep is your friend; less effort makes more dent.

[OiRogers]

Actually, I think the Phileas might be up to the challenge. It certainly manages carbonless forms like its goo-filled idiot cousins. I'm thinking of making off today with my wife's 9461 Estie point, which is specifically meant to be a manifold, to see how it runs in that regard. A trick-- take the angle of writing up to about 65-70 degrees so the force you put on the pen is a little more in line with the long axis of the pen. I generally go for a shallow angle, but when faced with copies, steep is your friend; less effort makes more dent.

 

 

Good call on the angle issue.... I was about to suggest that same thing.

 

I have a recently acquired Pilot/Namiki Knight with a steel / fine nib that has done the trick just fine on up to four layer carbonless... beyond that it's a bit too light.

I compaired it to an older schaff manifold nib at the local pen shop yesterday and think a manifold nib'd pen will be my next purchase... the manifold was probably twice as thick as my Pilot or the Pelikan m605 I also had in my pocket to compare with.

[DrPJM1]

I use a vintage Sheaffer's OS Balance with a hard fine nib and have had no problems.

[Ink Stained Wretch]

Were those real carbon copy forms, with the actual carbon-impregnated carbon paper making the copies?

 

I've heard that the old Sheaffer Triumph nib was made to work with carbon copies, which were common back in the '40s.

 

Sorry to hear about your fountain pen. I'm pretty defensive about mine.

[tfwall]

I was in my chemistry laboratory today, and we take down all of our observations and results in these laboratory carbon copy notebooks.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you probably had a carbonless book. It has white top pages and yellow copy sheets? Those require significantly more pressure than true carbon copy paper. There are engineering/accountant fountain pens with stiff nibs designed for work on such forms.

[wackyjacky1]

After feeding lil' Phil out of a bottle, carrying him everywhere, and general good parenting, I don't want to risk any damage. :ltcapd:

That's priceless! LOL! :clap1:

[ilubiano]

I was in my chemistry laboratory today, and we take down all of our observations and results in these laboratory carbon copy notebooks.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you probably had a carbonless book. It has white top pages and yellow copy sheets? Those require significantly more pressure than true carbon copy paper. There are engineering/accountant fountain pens with stiff nibs designed for work on such forms.

 

 

They're white sheets, but they might be carbonless. Now i'm not completely sure.

 

I will look into the pens that have been suggested, thanks!

 

As for the phileas, I still would not be comfortable using int on a copy form. :embarrassed_smile:

[Ray-Vigo]

I use ballpoints for these forms (these are usually bank forms)- my fountain pens don't like them.

[jsonewald]

I use a Lamy Safari with M or F nib to write checks, and the copy is legible. It is fainter than when I use a BP, but is still readable. If your lab book is the NCR kind, you may want to put something under the second sheet with a hard surface. I use any of several FP's at work, and often take messages for others in a message log that uses NCR paper. With a sheet of thin cardboard under the top set, any of the FP's I've used make legible copies.

[savarez]

Actually, I think the Phileas might be up to the challenge.

 

Why risk it? Keep the nice pens out of the Chem Labs!

 

[Ernst Bitterman]

I made up a list of pens that work on the carbonless forms for this post... but I'd neglected the Chem lab aspect. There's nasty stuff in those places! Keep the nice pens out!

[Johnny Appleseed]

Actually, I think the Phileas might be up to the challenge. It certainly manages carbonless forms like its goo-filled idiot cousins. I'm thinking of making off today with my wife's 9461 Estie point, which is specifically meant to be a manifold, to see how it runs in that regard. A trick-- take the angle of writing up to about 65-70 degrees so the force you put on the pen is a little more in line with the long axis of the pen. I generally go for a shallow angle, but when faced with copies, steep is your friend; less effort makes more dent.

 

For a long time I kept and Esterbrook SJ with a 9461 nib and Noodlers black as my checkbook pen. It makes pretty good work of carbonless forms - at least the 2 part checks. Now I mainly use a Hero 100 or a vintage Koh-i-nor rapidograph (hard rubber, piston filler) which does the job pretty well (and I think I sold that SJ).

 

A fine or XF firm nib is the key to carbonless - a firm medium works, but you get a better imprint on the 2nd sheet if you go with a fine or XF. The finer nib concentrates pressure on a smaller surface area.

 

I have actually been experimenting with a flex nib for my checks (well, experimenting because it was all I had when I needed to write some checks). I have been surprised by the results - The spread tines actually leave a readable imprint, but separated, as if done with a 2-tine stylus. Pretty interesting results, but not a good replacement for a stiff nib.

 

John

[Ray-Vigo]

 

Actually, I think the Phileas might be up to the challenge.

 

I tried the Phileas at it, but found the results unsatisfactory. The carbon form came out too light. I debated bearing down harder, but decided to err on the side of caution.

 

 

[tfwall]

Why risk it? Keep the nice pens out of the Chem Labs!

Heresy!

[Ernst Bitterman]

Day's end confirms-- Estie 9461 goes through a three-part form like Elliot Ness through a gangland dive. Lowest bit isn't perfect, but it's certainly legible, and at no time was the pen in any danger.

[Johnny Appleseed]

I'm thinking of making off today with my wife's 9461 Estie point, which is specifically meant to be a manifold, to see how it runs in that regard.

 

For a long time I kept and Esterbrook SJ with a 9461 nib and Noodlers black as my checkbook pen. John

 

 

Day's end confirms-- Estie 9461 goes through a three-part form like Elliot Ness through a gangland dive. Lowest bit isn't perfect, but it's certainly legible, and at no time was the pen in any danger.

 

Hmm. . . [he says, checking his records] I would say it should!

 

Glad to hear it's working well!

 

John