custom 823 Custom 823 or M800 for Fountain pen buy it for life

[penworrymaster]

Hi there! I’m looking for a “BIFL” fountain pen. I already have Custom 823, but I’m not so sure if it is a “BIFL” pen. Is M800 a BIFL or it is just as “BIFL” as Custom 823?

[OCArt]

Both are great pens and both are solidly made.  Is it BIFL? Only you can answer that question, however if it were  me I'd get the M1000 as it has a much nicer nib to write with.  The M800 is pretty much a nail but the M1000 (and the M300) have nibs that are softer and have a pleasant bounce to them. 

[nm4]

Two of my favorite pens when equipped with the right nib.  The 823 signature nib is an absolute delight.  The m800 Italic broad nib is equally good.  The m800 has replacement parts more readily available and you can change nibs easily.   I think the m800 seems a little more sturdy but quality is great on both overall.  If you want an extra fine or fine nib then get the 823.

 

N

[A Smug Dill]

3 hours ago, penworrymaster said:

I already have Custom 823, but I’m not so sure if it is a “BIFL” pen.

 

OK… but you're the only one who can decide and articulate why the Pilot Custom 823 is not it for you. What is it about either the particular unit you already own, or more generally that fountain pen model, that would make you want to part with it ❶ before the end of the writing instrument's useful life and/or ❷ your own mortal life, such that it fails to be a “buy it for life” pen for you?

 

Without knowing that, I don't think anyone can tell you how a Pelikan Souverän M800 (or any other pen model) could address those flaws or gaps you see.

[sandy101]

I've held both. The Pilot was better balanced than the M800 - and its nib was smooth. 

 

I don't think you are going to get much more from an M800 - unless you want an exchangable/different nib size nib.

 

 

 

 

[Al-fresco]

I have a Custom 823, I don't have an M800 (I nearly did but they were perpetually "awaiting stock" and the moment passed).  To be honest the 823 doesn't spend all much time being used but every time I ink it up I think "I should use this more!"  In the UK the 823 is about half the price of the M800.  Personally I wouldn't buy a new M800 (although I might be tempted by a used one, if the price was right).  The problem is that there are so many interesting pens out there that once you've bought your 'pen for life' another one comes along!

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, Al-fresco said:

The problem is that there are so many interesting pens out there that once you've bought your 'pen for life' another one comes along!

 

I don't think buying a fountain pen “for life” implies monogamy or exclusivity, any more than owning a pet mouse is supposedly “for life”, without intent, premeditation, or prospective exit clause of rehoming the animal should one get bored with it; but the owner would not be held to be untrue or at fault should he/she have multiple pets concurrently.

[Penguincollector]

   At this point, I think my M800 qualifies as a BIFL. I’ve had it since I was 15, and I have used it regularly since then. I will be 50 next year. It’s a big pen, but it’s comfortable. It holds a good amount of ink and is a very wet writer with a lovely 14k nib (the current nibs are very different). I like the weight of the brass piston in my hand, this is one of those things that people either love or hate. It’s like the opposite of my 743 (same nib as your 823). That one has a very dry nib that prefers wet inks like Iroshizuku, the M800 could run on inky rinsewater, it’s so wet. I often use my driest, palest inks in it. 
 

  I personally don’t just use a few pens, but have a bazillion inked pens at one time, to suit my mood and how my joints feel. I have about 5 pens that date from around the same time as the M800. 

[Mercian]

14 hours ago, penworrymaster said:

Is M800 a BIFL or it is just as “BIFL” as Custom 823?

 

I don't have a Pilot Custom 823, although I have considered buying one in the past.

The thing that put me off the pen is a matter of my personal taste.

 

I do though own one Pelikan M800, and one M805, and would like to buy at least two more M80x pens (in specific LE versions).

My reasons for desiring the specific models of M80x are, again, matters of my personal taste.

 

So...

10 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

OK… but you're the only one who can decide and articulate why the Pilot Custom 823 is not it for you. What is it about either the particular unit you already own, or more generally that fountain pen model, that would make you want to part with it ❶ before the end of the writing instrument's useful life and/or ❷ your own mortal life, such that it fails to be a “buy it for life” pen for you?

 

↑ there be Wisdom!

 

What do you want from a 'Buy It For Life' pen?

If you let us know that, we will be better-informed about your preferences, and therefore able to offer you better advice.

 

Going back to the subject of M80x pens...

I won't mention any aesthetic matters - one either thinks that they are 'pretty' or one doesn't. That's a matter of personal taste.

Another matter that will depend on the unique shape of your hands is whether you will find one to be a 'large', 'stately' pen, or to be a pen that is 'too big' and that feels 'unwieldy'.

 

Good points about the M80x:

• their build-quality is superb They feel at least as well-built as a modern Lamy 2000, or a 1950s aerometric Parker "51" (and I cannot think of any higher praise). One should last you for many, many years (as long as you don't try to play Darts with it, or throw it around a building site); 
• The brass piston-mechanism is robust, and is built to be removable, serviceable, and repairable;
• their nib/feed units just unscrew out of the pen - which makes swapping nibs, or cleaning the pen, or re-lubricating the piston mechanism all very easy to do, and without the need for any special tools.
• they hold a decent amount of ink (although not as much as a C823 iirc);
• their caps seal very well;
• they are very reliable - in addition to being 'luxury' pens, they are also 'workhorse' pens that seem to always 'just work';

 

Factors that some people may not like:

• the bodies of the post-2022 M80x pens that are striped are not translucent between the stripes. Which means that they DON'T have any 'ink window' on them. Striped M80x pens produced before late 2022 did have translucent bodies, and these serve as the best 'ink-window' that I have ever seen;
• the nibs on M80x pens made after September 1997 are smooth, but they are also very rigid, and very rounded 'double-ball' nibs;
• the nibs of M800s made from 1998-1997 had a bit of 'bounce' (or very slight flexibility), and a slightly more-interesting shape of nib-grind (narrower, and slightly 'stubbish');
• the brass piston-mechanism can make the pen feel heavy for some people;
• if you want to post the cap while you write, some people find that it makes the pen feel 'too long', or 'back-weighted';
• 'posting' the cap might make a mark on the body of the pen;
• some people find them to be a bit lacking in 'character'. Reliable, but not necessarily 'exciting';
• Pelikan's modern nib grades are wide 'western' grades. If you only like to use Japanese 'EF' nibs, a modern Pelikan nib is going to be far too-wide for you, even if it is marked 'EF';
• Pelikan pens don't have the ink cut-off valve that the C823 has. 

 

I hope that this is useful.

 

Slàinte,
M.

[SpencerianDream]

IMO, in the modern “BIFL” sense, both pens absolutely qualify. They’re both the kind of pen you can buy and expect to get decades of use out of with no troubles. Neither are cheap or subpar. Both will, after decades, have scratches, plating wear, and will have possibly required some regreasing or other maintenance. I don’t think the Pilot 823 is inferior in any way to the Pelikan M800. They’re very different pens in terms of filling system, looks, and their nibs give a different experience.
 

But they both have classic, business appropriate, good looks, nibs I’d characterize as smooth but with enough feedback to make writing enjoyable, large capacity, and superb reliability. Both, in fact, work so well and so consistently that they can be characterized as “boring” options compared to something flashier, more exotic, and potentially more temperamental. 

 

If I had to choose one of the two I’d pick the M800 based on how enjoyable I find it to write, for me. But it’s an entirely subjective decision. 

[kestrel]

I don't own an 823 although the thought has crossed my mind more than once.  Something else always popped up to scratch the itch first.

 

I bought an M800 in 2000 to celebrate one of those great events in the life of a teacher.  It has been in the rotation every day since except for a trip to be repaired after one of my cats mistook it for one of her toys.

 

Several years after I bought the pen I went through one of those life defining periods that nobody should have to endure and, at the end of it, I celebrated by buying a 0.9 mm Italifine nib from Richard Binder for the M800.  Except for the above mentioned repair visit I have used that pen every day since.  The possible nib issues @Mercianmentioned can be dealt with by a nibmeister if you so choose.  I have test written a number of high end pens that some would consider a pen for life (Montblanc 149, Sailor King of Pen, Visconti Homo sapiens, Conway Stewart Churchill, Nakaya, Omas, Delta, etc.) and none of them gave me the satisfaction I get from the M800.  @A Smug Dillnailed it with his comments on your 823.  I would add that if you are really looking for that long term commitment pen you need to handle the various options to see how they feel and how they make you feel.

Enjoy the hunt.

[Mr. Pink]

I've had an 800 for over 25 years and love it.  I recently bought an 823 and love that, too.  I wouldn't worry about which one is the pen-for-life, as you'll eventually end up with both.  Come to think of it, just like the rest of us, you'll end up with a fist full of pens-for-life.  We all rotate our pens.  One month you'll enjoy using an 800 with green ink, and your 823 with the blue that came with it.  Once you run through a few refills, you'll set both aside and ink up some other pens.  And all of the pens you have can last the rest of your life as long as you treat them with care.  

(Oops, Mr. Pink is not a big fan of green ink)

[kazoolaw]

A pen for all of your life, and the lives of succeeding generations:  Parker 51 Flighter.