Parker 45 or 51

[Mercian]

23 minutes ago, vicpen123 said:

The squeeze 'u' bar is similar in usage to the converters in my Parker UK Duofolds except for the thickened mid section.

If you mean the UK Duofolds from the 1950s & 1960s, those have the same built-in ‘aerometric’ filling system that was used in the Parker “51”; they aren’t removable converters.
(I have a 1960s ‘Junior’ Duofold. Its aerometric fill-system, ‘bouncy’ nib, and ebonite feed make it a great pen to use with Registrars’ Ink 😊)

But their operating principle is indeed the same as both types of squeeze-bar converters that you & I have.

[vicpen123]

1 hour ago, Mercian said:

If you mean the UK Duofolds from the 1950s & 1960s, those have the same built-in ‘aerometric’ filling system that was used in the Parker “51”; they aren’t removable converters.
(I have a 1960s ‘Junior’ Duofold. Its aerometric fill-system, ‘bouncy’ nib, and ebonite feed make it a great pen to use with Registrars’ Ink 😊)

But their operating principle is indeed the same as both types of squeeze-bar converters that you & I have.

The filling system in the UK Duofolds is not the same aerometric filling system used in the "51"s. These are unique to the "51" and as far as I know, not used in any other pen.

It is more like the "51" Special.

[Mercian]

9 hours ago, vicpen123 said:

It is more like the "51" Special.

You’re right 

 

The Duofolds use exactly the same mechanism as the “51” Special (and the 21/Super 21?).

But the only difference (afaik) from the system used in the “51” is that the more-expensive gold-nibbed “51” pens have a full-length metal shroud (sometimes with a plastic end-cap) which contains the squeeze bar fixed over the top of the sac, rather than the half-length shroud with that looped squeeze bar that is in the less-expensive pens.

 

I just wanted to warn any new owners of vintage UK Duofolds that their filling system is built into the pen, i.e. that it is not a converter that can be pulled out.

[inkstainedruth]

@lokesh4730 Well, I paid about $37.50 US (including tax) for my 45 Flighter -- but I was *also* paying for the B/stub nib on it....

OTOH, my first 45, a Black GT Deluxe, according to people on here when I posted pix of it going "What do I have?" about a decade ago (it was my first semi-vintage pen and the first pen with a 14K nib) I paid a little over $10.50 in an antiques store in more or less "butt-nowhere" PA on a weekend jaunt through the "Northern Tier" counties east of Erie about 12 years ago.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[lokesh4730]

15 hours ago, Mercian said:

I missed these questions earlier on, sorry 

 

My Luxor-made Frontier is actually made to slightly better quality than the UK-made model of that pen was.
The UK pens had a rubber coating on their grip-section, and that used to fall off in patches. I had to scrape it off my own UK Frontier.

The Frontier was made in the UK at a time when the company was losing lots of money, so its quality suffered as production costs were cut drastically. The company got bought out, and the UK factory got closed down, at the end of the era during which Frontiers were made here.
My two Luxor Frontiers are well-made and they have good nibs, but their caps don’t ‘post’ very well on to the back of the pen when writing with them. I think that this is a design problem, rather than a manufacturing problem.

 

My all-steel Luxor Vector is really well made. In this all-steel version it is a tough pen, and it would be a great pen for school or university if one finds its size comfortable.

 

My 25 is from the 1970s, and it is made to a higher standard than my early-2000s Jotter (again, this is the era when Parker was cutting costs).

All my 45s are from the 1970s, and they are all well-made, but their caps don’t ‘post’ as well as that of the 25 or the Vector; both of which are shaped so that the cap slots firmly on to the slightly-narrower end of the pen’s body.

 

The Urban is a heavier pen, made out of brass. Its cap ‘posts’ well, but its weight then makes the pen feel unbalanced.

 

The Jotter, Vector, and Urban all use the same nibs. They are very stiff, but they write reliably. The Frontier nibs are very slightly ‘bouncy’. The 45 steel nibs are very stiff, but reliable. My UK-made 14k gold 45 nib is slightly ‘bouncy’ too.

 

The 25 is probably the pen that I find to be most-comfortable in my hand when writing.
The Urban is the prettiest, and when I use it I do enjoy using it.
The Vector is a great tough pen to take out on-site, or to use in e.g. school, but it is a tiny bit too-narrow for me to use it comfortably for a long writing session. The Jotter is also a little bit small for my hand.
The narrow, tapered shape of the 45 means that I take a little while to get used to it (I normally use wider pens), but the nibs on mine write with quite narrow lines, so they make great pens for writing postcards in permanent black ink.

 

As for your price question, €28 for a gold-nibbed all-steel 45 would be a decent price here in the UK.
Is it a 14k gold nib? Or is it a gold-plated steel nib?

What era does the pen date-to?

And what size/grind is the nib?
45s were made with everything from XF to B, and with Italics, and obliques, and reverse-obliques. There should be a letter stamped in the underside of the nib collar. One of the more-‘exotic’ nibs might not suit your handwriting, so it is a good idea to check what size/grind of nib is on the pen.

Thanks for the insights in the different models the 45 is available in medium and fine both 14k NOS it is just a trustworthy online shop so I don’t know the date code

[Mercian]

52 minutes ago, lokesh4730 said:

Thanks for the insights in the different models the 45 is available in medium and fine both 14k NOS it is just a trustworthy online shop so I don’t know the date code

There is a useful visual guide to the changes in 45 ‘Flighter’ model styling down the decades available here:

https://parker45pens.com/parker-45-flighter/

 

If the pens are NOS and only available in ‘F’ or ‘M’, I would assume that they are from the final production series, from 2001-2008. But they may of course be earlier ones.

 

Elsewhere on that site there is a guide to the letter-codes for all the different types of nib with which the 45 was made over the years. The site is really informative 🙂

[Glenn-SC]

On 4/18/2024 at 11:37 AM, inkstainedruth said:

@lokesh4730 Well, I paid about $37.50 US (including tax) for my 45 Flighter

And I paid $4 (plus tax) for a 1st year “51” about 10 years ago at an antique store. Does that mean $4 is now my acceptable limit for a 1st Year “51”?

[inkstainedruth]

Dang!  Nice score!

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[lokesh4730]

4 hours ago, Glenn-SC said:

And I paid $4 (plus tax) for a 1st year “51” about 10 years ago at an antique store. Does that mean $4 is now my acceptable limit for a 1st Year “51”?

I wish I got a 51 for that price and here are the pictures of the flightee so according to the website it was produced from 61-69

 

On 4/18/2024 at 11:11 PM, Mercian said:

There is a useful visual guide to the changes in 45 ‘Flighter’ model styling down the decades available here:

https://parker45pens.com/parker-45-flighter/

 

If the pens are NOS and only available in ‘F’ or ‘M’, I would assume that they are from the final production series, from 2001-2008. But they may of course be earlier ones.

 

Elsewhere on that site there is a guide to the letter-codes for all the different types of nib with which the 45 was made over the years. The site is really informative 🙂

 

[Penguincollector]

On 4/17/2024 at 5:48 AM, lokesh4730 said:

how do you feel the Indian Parker made by Luxor compares to the others what was your favourite model?

  I also have a few Luxor Parkers, a gold plated Vector and 2 matte blue Asters, in CT and GT. They are lovely pens, really well made. 
 

  On the subject of 45 prices, I have purchased them for as little as $3 US and as much as $40. I would pay more for a few types like the TX and Harlequins no question. 

[inkstainedruth]

I love the look of the 45 Harlequins, but then get sticker shock.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Ron Z]

From a durability and quality standpoint, I would buy a 51.  The Lucite used in a 51 is far more robust than the plastic that was used in a 45.  The 45 was priced as a student pen, so a lower quality plastic was used.  It is not uncommon to find that the section on a 45 has "puckered" or pinched where the fingers of the clutch make contact.  Actually, more like it is quite common to find section damage.  I also like the slightly larger size of the 51.  The aerometric 51 is an excellent pen.  Not bullet proof, but pretty close. 

 

An advantage though is that it is relatively easy to change nibs.  But before you try to unscrew the nib, immerse the section in water over night to soften the dried ink inside.

[lokesh4730]

5 hours ago, Ron Z said:

From a durability and quality standpoint, I would buy a 51.  The Lucite used in a 51 is far more robust than the plastic that was used in a 45.  The 45 was priced as a student pen, so a lower quality plastic was used.  It is not uncommon to find that the section on a 45 has "puckered" or pinched where the fingers of the clutch make contact.  Actually, more like it is quite common to find section damage.  I also like the slightly larger size of the 51.  The aerometric 51 is an excellent pen.  Not bullet proof, but pretty close. 

 

An advantage though is that it is relatively easy to change nibs.  But before you try to unscrew the nib, immerse the section in water over night to soften the dried ink inside.

The model I am interested in is the flighter

[Lithium466]

The 45 will always have the plastic section. It looked and felt flimsy to me at first, and yes is often deformed from the cap clutch contact, but I got used to it now, and it resisted my office abuse so far.

 

Worst case...you can get a replacement section from a Moonman 80.

 

 

[Mercian]

1 hour ago, lokesh4730 said:

The model I am interested in is the flighter

As Lithium466 already said, the steel-bodied ‘Flighter’ model of the 45 still comes with a plastic grip-section, which can become deformed.
I think that its plastic shrinks if it is exposed to too-high a temperature, e.g. if somebody tries to clean it with hot water.
If you do buy one, then as long as you only clean it with cool (not ‘hot’) water, and you don’t leave it inside a car on a hot summer day, or on a radiator during the Winter, I don’t think that it will shrink/become deformed.
Two of mine are still perfect, and the other one has only deformed very slightly. And all three of mine were made in the 1970s.
Of course, I am in the UK, and the UK and France (where my 45s were made) are less-warm than is India.

 

If you want to buy an all-steel Parker that has a steel grip-section, the only model that will satisfy that desire is (IIRC) a Vector.
Those, of course, were never made with gold nibs.

 

In my experience, choosing between different pens is, like choosing between different types of most things in Life®️, a process that often boils-down to choosing the compromise with which one is the least-unhappy out of those that are available 😉

 

[lokesh4730]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:16 PM, Mercian said:

As Lithium466 already said, the steel-bodied ‘Flighter’ model of the 45 still comes with a plastic grip-section, which can become deformed.
I think that its plastic shrinks if it is exposed to too-high a temperature, e.g. if somebody tries to clean it with hot water.
If you do buy one, then as long as you only clean it with cool (not ‘hot’) water, and you don’t leave it inside a car on a hot summer day, or on a radiator during the Winter, I don’t think that it will shrink/become deformed.
Two of mine are still perfect, and the other one has only deformed very slightly. And all three of mine were made in the 1970s.
Of course, I am in the UK, and the UK and France (where my 45s were made) are less-warm than is India.

 

If you want to buy an all-steel Parker that has a steel grip-section, the only model that will satisfy that desire is (IIRC) a Vector.
Those, of course, were never made with gold nibs.

 

In my experience, choosing between different pens is, like choosing between different types of most things in Life®️, a process that often boils-down to choosing the compromise with which one is the least-unhappy out of those that are available 😉

 

I live in India is the regular summer temperature too high and I have been thinking about buying a pen from my birthday in January and I still have not decided on what to buy🤦‍♂️

[Lithium466]

Even deformed, it's not THAT bad, just a bit wavy. I shall post a picture of my deformed 45 section one day.

[lokesh4730]

53 minutes ago, Lithium466 said:

Even deformed, it's not THAT bad, just a bit wavy. I shall post a picture of my deformed 45 section one day.

Does it prevent you from removing. The nib unit

[Lithium466]

No, the pen is perfectly functional, works well and seals well. 

[Number99]

On 4/23/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lithium466 said:

Worst case...you can get a replacement section from a Moonman 80.

I have been recommending the use of Moonman/Majohn 80s sections on 45s, but recently I encountered a problem. The nib/feed unit was screwed in too far and the section cracked.

It is possible that this was an accident that was limited to one case, but I am here to tell about it.

I am still using Majohn 80s sections that I have in stock again, but I am careful about the screw-in strength of the feed.

It looks very good.

 

Maybe Majohn80s are not stocked indefinitely and production may have been halted. (Majohn80 minis are currently unavailable.)