What company has the best stub nibs?

[Doc Dan]

Funny, a $1 Jinhoa is inked via the converter and tested before shipping. 

[arcfide]

3 hours ago, NoGaBiker said:

Especially your conclusion on Santini. In fact, upon receiving my 3rd Santini last week, a Nonagon with specially crafter Flexy Italic Medium (0.9mm) CRISP, I spent about 3 hours futzing with it -- the nib itself, when dipped, was and is sublime; everything I had wanted and anticipated. But it would not write once the feed-saturation from the filling process dried out. I opened up the feed channel with a razor, I tried different inks, I spread the tines, I closed the tines. The ink just refused to travel down the slit. I could shake it and a big blob came out, so the feed was saturated. Finally got it bent down enough at the tip that the nib was in constant contact with the feed, apparently, and now it writes like everything I had imagined. But five years ago I don't know what I would have done, as I didn't know how to work on nibs at all. And I had a similar experience on my first two Santini nibs, which also flow beautifully now. 

 

Indeed! In case, anyone thinks I'm too down on Santini, I do want to point out what they are delivering which is really neat:

• 100% Italian 
• *Very* large No. 8 nibs that are completely made by them, as I understand it, in-house
• A wide range of nib grinds, including adjusting the nib styles for flex and a variety of other tippings, with lots of customization available
• Ebonite feeds that are easy to work with
• Huge bodies, Ebonite and Acrylic materials that are quite pleasant
• Unique filling systems, such as their Vacuum Ink system
• Fun body shapes

However, in my experience, I would say that their nib QC is the main fault. Specifically, according to their website, they say that they adjust and test the nibs in a pen designed to hold nibs and feeds, presumably by dip testing, and then they take the nib and feed out of the tester and install it into the pen that will be shipped. This is where the bulk of their problems show up, IMO, because I think, if they are in fact doing this, you end up with slight variations in the way that the nibs fit into the pens, and this leads especially to tines that are rotated or out of alignment. Additionally, I am convinced that whoever is doing the nib testing has the iron hand of Thor for a writing style. I do not think that they know what a light touch is. I think that the majority of their nibs will likely write pretty well if you use significant pressure, but if you use light pressure, I strongly suspect that they do not have a lot of experience in polishing their nibs for this sort of user. The nibs just don't behave under such conditions. Two of the Giant 8 pens that I received were both "off" in their tuning in a similar way, which is why I think it isn't variance, but actually an error in the process of tuning the nibs itself. Moreover, I have definitely had the experience of receiving a nib that was very far away from the section. Depending on the type of ink that you are using and the amount of flex that you are using, you may or may not ever notice this feed gap, but I certainly did, and it did affect the performance of the pen. 

 

At the very least, I do the following to all my Santini nibs:

• Fully adjust the tines according to tine alignment, tine spacing, tine rotation, and tip alignment
• Heat set the feed to the nib
• Write test with dry and wet inks, and possibly remove any baby's bottom or increase the silkiness of the nib with a little polishing

The grind that they use on the nibs is the kind I have come to associate with "hard" polishes like Jowo and PIlot, versus "soft" polishes like Sailor, Platinum, or Waterman. This makes them, IMO, have less feedback, but much more propensity to suffer baby's bottom issues if they are there, for whatever reason. 

 

Of course, to be fair, I *have* had pens from stalwart and reliable brands like Platinum where the pens benefited from heat setting the feeds, but that is relatively rare, whereas I think every Santini I have had consistently needed heat setting to perform to standard. 

 

After you get through all of that though, you can have a flexy stub at a variety of sharpnesses, or you can have a big, soft, fluffy #8 style stub, which are both hard to find. Moreover, because they have simple Ebonite feeds, you can get some of the most consistently wet writing pens anywhere, especially given their giant nibs and feeds. But, man, it annoys me that you have to work so hard to get there. 

[Doc Dan]

To me, that is nuts to pay that much for a pen in which the nibs are not good out of the box. There are cheap pens that fully test their nibs and feeds before letting them go out. Perhaps it is like an Italian racing car. They expect the driver to know how to fix it as soon as it arrives. 

[arcfide]

3 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

To me, that is nuts to pay that much for a pen in which the nibs are not good out of the box. There are cheap pens that fully test their nibs and feeds before letting them go out. Perhaps it is like an Italian racing car. They expect the driver to know how to fix it as soon as it arrives. 

 

Probably not a totally inaccurate analogy. 😉 Of course, I agree with you, it is totally nuts, and I readily admit to insanity in this regard, but I'm a sucker for unique, brand-new filling systems, and I couldn't help myself when they came out with the Vacuum Ink. I'm also a sucker for ridiculously large pens, even though my most ergonomic daily writing pens are definitely more in the Sailor 1911s, Waterman, or Pelikan M400 size range. 

[Doc Dan]

56 minutes ago, arcfide said:

 

Probably not a totally inaccurate analogy. 😉 Of course, I agree with you, it is totally nuts, and I readily admit to insanity in this regard, but I'm a sucker for unique, brand-new filling systems, and I couldn't help myself when they came out with the Vacuum Ink. I'm also a sucker for ridiculously large pens, even though my most ergonomic daily writing pens are definitely more in the Sailor 1911s, Waterman, or Pelikan M400 size range. 

I like large pens, also. My largest is a Jinhao 1919 and it is very large in girth. I plan to look at a Sailor King of Pens later in the Spring when I get a chance to actually go to the shop and handle one. 

[MidSouthern-Dad]

I had two pens with intolerably ugly blobby broad nibs:  a Pilot 823 Custom, and a Santini.  I had them reground to stubs by John Mottishaw, and they write very beautifully now.  I Purchased these pens used, so I didn’t have a chance to try them out before hand.  
 

Yes, the Santini arrived with misaligned tines, and needed smoothing.

 

I have pens that are a pleasant surprise.

 I purchased a hard rubber Parker Duofold circa 1923.  I had it restored and resacked.  During the repair, it was evident that the Lucky Curve feed had been broken off by some previous repairman.  I know Parker said to cut off the tail, but here someone had snapped off the back, leaving the back of the feed jagged.  It works very well, nevertheless.  The nib is a fine italic or stub!  It has a very distinct vintage flair to the handwriting.

 

 I bought a used Montblanc 146 with broad nib.  After my previous experience with the Pilot and Santini, I expected the worst.  Put to paper, it is a beautiful, glassy smooth stub with graceful line variation.

 

I can really recommend a vintage Parker duo fold italic or stub, if you can find it, or the Montblanc Broads.

[bbqjohn]

On 2/5/2024 at 6:04 PM, arcfide said:

I've been on this pursuit for a while, and I might be able to provide a little insight, as I've especially been focusing on companies that make their own nibs, vs. the ones that tune Jowo or Bock nibs. Here's the list of some nibs, particularly gold, but some others:

• Waterman Stub and Broad (Carene and Exception)
• Parker Stub and Broad
• Pelikan Italic Broad
• Lamy 1.1, 1.5, and 1.9mm steel stubs
• Lamy 2000 nibs
• Montblanc B and BB (146 and 149)
• Aurora BB, Stub, and Italic
• Scribo Stub and Italic
• Santini Stub and Cursive Italic
• Pilot SU, S, and MS (912, 742, and 743)
• Platinum Music (#3776 and Nakaya)
• Platinum Coarse (#3776, President, and Izumo)
• Sailor Music (1911s, 1911L, Pro Gear Slim, Pro Gear)
• Franklln Christoph Stubs, CI, SIG, and Music (Jowo nibs, but often tuned or treated in house)
• Jowo and Bock stubs

The Franklin Christoph is there because they are unique, IMO, among Jowo users in that they have the Music nib made for them, as well as multiple different stub options such as the SIG nibs. Among those above, I have tried many of them, namely, those from Waterman, Pelikan, Lamy, Santini, Platinum, and Franklin Christoph (just the Music). I've done extensive research on the others. I've also been sampling the BB range for many companies, and I have a Pelikan B, Sailor KOP B, Lamy B (Gold, Steel, and Aion), Sailor Zoom, and others to add to the comparisons. 

 

Like many things, what is best for you will depend a lot on factors like what the size of handwriting you like is, and a little more clarification on what you like your nibs to feel like. You say two things, that you like smooth and that you want the nib to float across the paper. IME, those two things are not quite the same. I prefer to divide the concept of smooth into two factors, how much drag a nib will have, and how much feedback it will have. These are not the same thing. There are some nibs which have high feedback, but essentially no drag. These nibs "float" across the page, but have an ever present sound and feedback as they do so. Then there are nibs which are exceptionally low feedback, and might as well be highly polished glass, but that have a high amount of drag on the page, so that they make no sound, and don't vibrate even a little in the hand, but provide a smooth, ever-present resistance to movement across the page. 

 

Then there is the issue of the inks that you want to use. Some inks are more or less lubricated than others, and some are drier or wetter than others (surface tension). These two factors make a big difference in how a nib will feel on the page. There are some nibs which feel buttery smooth with some dry but lubricated inks, but feel much less so with wet, unlubricated inks. Wetter inks might reduce the line variation of the inks, and make some stubs that would otherwise be very sharp, very dull. Likewise, the paper that you use makes a huge difference in perceived line variation, reliability, and smoothness. 

 

With any given stub, one of the challenges is how to make the nib easy to use. A nib can be highly sensitive to rotation, and it can also be sensitive to the amount of pressure required to get it started right out of the gate. Smoother, harder papers will make hard starting, highly polished nibs write less reliably, whereas some papers have enough texture or are softer, and so will take what was a smooth, glassy nib on Tomoe River or THIN paper and turn it into a pencil-like nib. Then, some papers take ink exceptionally well, which causes them to write a little broader than other papers. These papers can have the effect of greatly reducing the line variation you see, especially if you want to use a wet ink and a less sharp stub. 

 

IMO, if you want to get a consistent, reliable experience, stub nibs require that you make a stronger commitment to a specific ink and paper range than do standard ball-tipped nibs. With a ball-tipped EF, F, or M nib, a wetter or drier ink, and smoother or rougher paper will create less stark effective differences in perceived writing experience than with a stub nib. With a stub nib, however, those little differences in the inks and paper will make a much bigger difference in how the pen feels to you. 

 

Next, when testing various pens, you should pay very close attention to the tine gap in the pens. Because of the increased contact area difference in length and breadth in a stub nib, the distance from the nib slit to the part of the tipping that is furthest away from the slit is much higher than in a ball-tipped nib, with less surface area to transport the ink. This can make stub nibs write drier compared to other pens of the same line width, which increases the sharper the stub. This makes them very sensitive to the tine gap, and the wrong tine gap can make or break a good experience with a given nib. Likewise, because of the increased lateral range of contact, it's easier to get off the sweet spot on such nibs, and thus, baby's bottom can make your life a real pain on an otherwise nice stub nib in a way that you won't experience in other pens. This makes such nibs more sensitive to the internal slit/tine polishing that is done there: if you polish it just a little too much, it's easy to get an almost unusable baby's bottom situation, whereas not enough and it's easy to get lots of feedback under even tiny amounts of nib rotation. 

 

Now, another factor in this whole thing is that it is often the case that the double broad nib that a given company makes actually has stub qualities to it. If you are looking for the smoothest and wettest experience in a nib, but don't want the excessive sharpness and feedback that can come from a cursive italic type stub, then one solution is to find the right ink and pair it with a double broad that has these stub like qualities to it. This allows for a surprising amount of line variation and control using a nib that isn't explicitly marketed as a stub, but is actually probably a better stub than most (if you want rich, smooth, wet writing with clean line variation).

 

---

 

Now, with all the preliminaries out of the way, how do we go about answering your question of what is the best? I'm going to assume for this question that you want not just low feedback, but that you also want very low drag. You also have *not* said anything about how wet the pen needs to write, and many people would call TWSBI pens a little more dry writing than most. That leaves only the question of the size of your own handwriting. I'm going to assume for the moment that you're willing to adapt your handwriting to any size nib, and that you're really just after the best writing stub, no matter what you might have to sacrifice as far as handwriting size to get there. That helps narrow the field a little bit. Another thing that I need to do to limit the options is to eliminate the option for tuning the pens before shipping. There are shops that will do this, and that gives you almost unlimited freedom, because then you are almost certain to be able to get exactly what you want with whatever nib you like best. 

 

I think we can "eliminate" some options as unlikely to be really satisfactory to you. The Sailor Music nibs are reputed to have the signature Sailor feedback. Sailor pens typically have very low drag, but high feedback, and both the Sailor KOP B and Sailor Zoom nibs that I have are like this. Even when tuned to write very wet, they exhibit lots of distinct feedback. Assuming that you want low feedback, then this is probably not for you. The Platinum Music nib is exceptionally smooth, but some versions do exhibit a little more feedback than others. I have some which are very low feedback, and some which are higher. If you get one of the low-feedback grinds (they seem to have had two different grinds), then it is easily the smoothest and easiest to use among the Japanese big 3 music nibs, but also quite broad. If you get one of the high feedback ones, then it might be too much feedback for you, but less than Sailor. The Pilot SU nib that I have is *very* sharp, and has a very distinct feel. It is highly sensitive and would likely be way too feedback heavy and draggy for you, so I would rule that one out. Likewise, the Pilot MS nib is reputed to be the sharpest of the big 3 music nibs, and not exceptionally wet, which would suggest that it would generally have more feedback, and so it is not likely to be the experience you say that you want. Aurora's stub and italic nib sizes are reputed to be very sharp and have some feedback to them, so those are also unlikely to be what you're after. Lamy's steel stub nibs are convenient, but IMO, they are nowhere near consistent enough to be able to recommend them as the best stub nibs out there. However, they do give you the freedom to choose the stub size much more than the others. I found their 1.5mm and 1.9mm stubs to be "tolerable" and reasonable, but I really disliked the feel of the 1.1mm stubs. I also found them to write quite dry compared to other options. 

 

As a special case, I have to highlight Santini. They are doing something that almost no one else is doing, and so, if you want what they are offering, you might not be able to find it anywhere else. *However*, and this is a big point, I have never received a pen from them that was good "out of the box." I am convinced that whatever their test criteria for nibs is, it's not compatible with my own. The nibs have all come consistently tuned and aligned differently to what I prefer, and arguably "just wrong." If you are confident in your ability to work with nibs, then you can get something that is interesting and relatively unique, but if not, then I can't recommend Santini, since trying to get them adjusted to be just right is probably too much work at that point. 

 

So, what about the others? The Lamy 2000 is unique in that all of the nib sizes are given a stub/square cut. This gives you a lot of options, but they are not very sharp stubs. They are polished very smoothly, and have low feedback. In my experience, though, they have higher drag than many of the other nibs, and they do not exhibit as much line variation. I also find that they have very heavily polished internal edges, which makes them more susceptible to baby's bottom, but also very good for people who have a heavier hand. They also seem to be very wet. If you're writing on rougher paper that benefits from the extra polishing and want something that flows wet and that is pretty forgiving both of a heavier hand and/or a little too much rotation in one direction or the other, the Lamy 2000 nibs are a great choice. 

 

I trust the Montblanc B and BB nibs to write like nice, smooth, dull stub nibs, and they seem to be consistently quite good. The advantage there is that they have some beautiful nibs, but the come at quite a premium for new. Some have reported that they are a little more feedback-y than some others, but I can't yet provide a direct comparison of what they are producing in that category right now. I have the same issue with Scribo, which is that I haven't tried them, and while they seem to be well done, I can't vouche for the exact amount of feedback or reliability or quality control. The Aurora BB nib is reputed to be a large, stub-like writer, and if I were to pick up an Aurora myself, then the BB nib is what I would get on it. However, if it has the same feedback as the other Aurora nibs, then maybe that's not what you want. 

 

Franklin-Christoph has some of the most attractive stub offerings for "standard stubs" and steel nibs that I've seen. The SIG grind seems very nice, and they offer both gold and steel standard stub sizes, both tipped and untipped. I have their three-tined music offering, and I have to say that it is among my best nibs. The polishing is excellent, the flow is excellent, the whole nib is just very well done. The feed keeps up well, and the line variation and such is just superb. Even for such a big nib, I find that the nib is relatively forgiving. It's definitely one of the nicest nibs to write with if you're looking for that sort of thing. However, it is a very wide writer, and that makes it impractical for many people, but as far as such things go, it's definitely up there. If their other nibs are anything like that, then F-C makes a pretty compelling product line. 

 

Pilot's S nib is very hard to get, but the consistency of Pilots nibs, particularly in the feel of the tipping and the way that they make their grinds, makes me confident in saying that the S nib is probably the one to go for if you are looking for a smooth writing stub nib from Pilot. The only thing that I can criticize Pilot's nibs for is that I don't personally like the glassy polish that they put on their nibs, as it introduces just a hint of drag (but has the least amount of feedback among the big 3 Japanese) that I don't like, and I've found that I just don't work with them as well as with those from Sailor or Platinum. However, the exact reasons why I might not go for those nibs are just the reasons that I think it might be nice for you. 

 

Among the Japanese nibs, though, I think the President and #3776 Coarse nib is an bit of a sleeper here. There is a little more feedback than Pilot in those very large nibs, but the trade-off is that you also experience much less drag on some papers. This makes them smoother overall for me than the Pilots, and more of that "floating" feeling than I get from Pilot, even though they are more noisy. They are also *very* durable nibs, and stand up very well to fast writing. Their feeds are quite good at keeping up with fast writing and lots of ink, which makes it possible to get a lot out of dry inks in those pens (which makes sense, given that Platinum inks are quite dry as a rule). You *do* need to make sure that the tine gap is set to the appropriate wetness for those nibs, as all the Japanese nibs I've worked with as a rule tend to be tuned to write drier using a narrower tine gap than is my preference. And between the PIlot and Sailor and Platinum nibs, the Coarse Platinum nibs are such that they have the ability to deliver a little bit of line variation and act like a stub when you learn how to use them. 

 

All that being said though, it's unlikely that the Coarse nib will be exactly what you want. It will probably have a little too much feedback for you and too little easy to access line variation for you to be satisfied. 

 

So, what does that mean for my recommendation or vote for who makes the best? Well, given your criteria, I'm going to say that my votes would go to Waterman and Pelikan. Specifically, the Pelikan Italic Broad, if you can stand the line width, and can handle the risk of maybe getting too much polishing, has the combination of highly ergonomic pens, very bold, wet line, and great line variation, all in an exceptionally smooth package. My Italic broad (which I did make sure was tuned before sending to me), has terrific capacity for wet, smooth, effortless writing. It absolutely glides, and handles ink terrifically. The Waterman pens that I have, on the other hand, provide even more variety here. The IB Pelikan nib is *very* broad. Waterman, on the other hand, offers a broad and stub nib in their Carene and Exception Slim line of pens. These nibs, are, I think, highly underrated by the community as a whole. I have the Exception Slim varieties of both these nibs. I've found that both can handle a wide tine gap and very wet writing, and they have some of the best "first start" reliability of all my pens with the widest variety of inks, while at the same time exhibiting the smoothest feel, meaning that they have almost no feedback and almost no drag. The Waterman stub nib achieves all of this while at the same time having some of the best line variation of all of the stub nibs I have, while the broad nib that I have writes more like a very forgiving, rounded stub, and can easily add that stub character to your writing. I really think they are among the most competently done nibs in my whole collection. There are really only two disadvantages with these nibs, neither of which appears on your requirements list.

 

The first, is that they come in classically sized pen bodies, which means that by modern standards, they are relatively slimmer pens. Larger, wider pens are the norm these days, and so Waterman pens seem almost delicately slim by comparison, except for the Pelikan M400 and M600 lines. Nonetheless, their use of Lacquered Brass means that they don't write like a lightweight pen and have quite a bit more heft than you would expect from such slim pens. Whether or not that combination is ergonomic and desirable for you could make or break whether these nibs are good for you. For me, since I'm quite comfortable writing with slim pens, they are superb. 

 

The second issue with Waterman pens is that their feeds behave a little differently to, say, Platinum's, as an example. I have a wide tine gap on the Broad Waterman that I have, and it feeds ink to the nib almost instantly, even if stored nib up and all the ink has left the nib slit. In contrast, with my Sailor or Platinum nibs, if the nibs lose the ink in the slit over time (storing nib up with too wide a tine gap), then it can take a while to get ink back to the tip. However, once I've been slinging ink for a line or two, the Waterman feed will slow down the rate of ink delivery more noticeably than Platinum or Sailor. If you're writing with a very wetly tuned nib (as I am), then you can see the shifting flow as the ink bubbles burst in the Waterman nib (this sometimes also happens in my Platinum Music nibs); it keeps up, but the flow changes. On the other hand, with Platinum, even with a wet ink and a wet tuning, the ink just keeps going for the most part, and while you can see the slight change in flow rate, it's not that pronounced. If you aren't going for maximum ink flow rate, and have more modest ink delivery requirements, then you probably aren't likely to notice this difference nearly as much. 

 

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Now, if I inject my own personal biases in here, I'm much more willing to put up with feedback, but I don't want any drag from the nib, I really dislike having to write heavily or have less than perfect first start reliability, and I get the most enjoyment out of a *very* wet, glistening line of ink that I can control well. I'm also able and willing to tune the nibs to write wetter. I'm not after maximum line variation, but I do favor a little line variation if I can. I also like ergonomic pens that are well balanced and are generally slimmer in the section and not too heavy during writing.

 

If those are the criteria instead of the others, I've found that the following have risen to my top list and are currently duking it out as my currently inked pens: Waterman Exception Slim Broad, Sailor Profit Standard 21 Zoom, Platinum Izumo Coarse, Platinum #3776 Century Coarse, Pelikan M400 Broad, Pelikan M400 Italic Broad. 

 

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TL;DR -- If you want low feedback, low drag nibs that have stub qualities and don't insist on having the absolutely wettest possible writing experience, then I can confidently recommend Waterman B and Stub nibs as well as the Pelikan Italic Broad nib (for those who want an insanely broad writing line), or the Franklin-Christoph Music nib for those who would like a steel nib that writes smooth as silk and can deal with the 1.9mm style line. 

 

Honorable mentions: Lamy 2000, MB B/BB, and Pilot S nib

 

If you can tolerate a little more feedback: Platinum Music, Aurora BB, Sailor Music, Pilot MS, and Platinum Coarse.

 

 

 

This is quiet the detailed response and I feel like I share a lot of your sentiments about what I’m looking for. 
 

How do you compare the Mont Blanc 149 or 146 BB or OBB or O3B to the ones you recommend ? (Also not sure if 149 and 146 have similar nib characteristics). Also looking for low drag, stubby, wet , fast writing ability, smooth nib

[arcfide]

9 hours ago, bbqjohn said:

How do you compare the Mont Blanc 149 or 146 BB or OBB or O3B to the ones you recommend ? (Also not sure if 149 and 146 have similar nib characteristics). Also looking for low drag, stubby, wet , fast writing ability, smooth nib

 

I'm afraid that I haven't got my hands on the modern BB or other Montblanc nibs to really give them a fair shake. I hear that they are less smooth than Pelikans, with a little bit of feedback, but are otherwise reasonably wet, though not gushers. It's hard for me to say until I have put them through their paces, and I don't have easy access to these pens at the moment to try them out. I do look forward to giving them a try at some point. 

[bbqjohn]

10 hours ago, arcfide said:

 

I'm afraid that I haven't got my hands on the modern BB or other Montblanc nibs to really give them a fair shake. I hear that they are less smooth than Pelikans, with a little bit of feedback, but are otherwise reasonably wet, though not gushers. It's hard for me to say until I have put them through their paces, and I don't have easy access to these pens at the moment to try them out. I do look forward to giving them a try at some point. 

hopefully you get to try one someday soon!

 

Im about to get my hand on a platinum course nib, excited to try that. Im also thinking about the aurora BB, but it doesn't seem to be broad enough from what ive read, maybe less than 1mm.

 

thanks for the reply!

[arcfide]

19 hours ago, bbqjohn said:

Im about to get my hand on a platinum course nib, excited to try that. I

 

I have at least three pens which started or are still Platinum Coarse nibs. One is an Italic ground version on a Nakaya, another is the White #3776 (simple but quite elegant), and another is an Izumo Coarse nib. 

 

These are definitely nice nibs and are very good for really laying it on fast, wet, and broad. If you find that you don't get enough line variation at your writing angle with the Coarse nib, the great news is that they are extremely easy nibs to grind, so any competent nib meister should be able to make a nice stub exactly to your needs, which makes the nib, IMO, a very safe bet. 

 

I hope you enjoy yours! 

[mke]

On 2/6/2024 at 3:13 AM, dms525 said:

Note that both of these labels (They are owned by the same corporation.)

Owner: Peter Bock and I heard of Joachim Hildebrand and Wolfgang Lemme as "owners/founders?" of Jowo?

 

 

[RJS]

I'm enjoying reading through this thread. After decades of fountain pen use I only recently bought my first stub nibbed pens- a Narwhal with a 1.1 stub and a Pilot Prera with a 0.6 stub (incorrectly advertised in the West as 1.0). 
 

I absolutely love the Prera nib! So usable at normal size handwriting. The only one... meh. Will need to have it ground down or sell it, unless I keep it to play around with larger size calligraphy in the future.

 

As a newbie to stubs, it baffles me that 1.1 nibs are standard rather than 0.6...

[tommym]

On 6/3/2024 at 1:38 PM, mke said:

Owner: Peter Bock and I heard of Joachim Hildebrand and Wolfgang Lemme as "owners/founders?" of Jowo?

 

 

I always wonder about the correct spelling of that company's name. Jowo, JOWO, JoWo, etc.

 

It appears that based on the info above the correct spelling would be JoWo.

 

Tommy

[arcfide]

2 hours ago, RJS said:

As a newbie to stubs, it baffles me that 1.1 nibs are standard rather than 0.6...

 

If you write an Italic hand, then 0.6 is for *very* tiny handwriting. Italic handwriting tends to use a larger sized nib than you would expect given the same "effective size" as roundhand cursives such as Palmer, Spencerian, French, or English styles. 

[RJS]

47 minutes ago, arcfide said:

 

If you write an Italic hand, then 0.6 is for *very* tiny handwriting. Italic handwriting tends to use a larger sized nib than you would expect given the same "effective size" as roundhand cursives such as Palmer, Spencerian, French, or English styles. 

I use 5mm or 6mm ruling, so small, but not tiny- at least to my eye. My partner... now that is tiny writing she produces!

[Mercian]

On 6/7/2024 at 9:58 PM, arcfide said:

 

If you write an Italic hand, then 0.6 is for *very* tiny handwriting. Italic handwriting tends to use a larger sized nib than you would expect given the same "effective size" as roundhand cursives such as Palmer, Spencerian, French, or English styles. 

 

On 6/7/2024 at 10:48 PM, RJS said:

I use 5mm or 6mm ruling, so small, but not tiny- at least to my eye. My partner... now that is tiny writing she produces!

I have two (European variety) Pilot Plumix calligraphy pens.

I have one with an ‘M’ nib, and one with an ‘F’ nib. Both are very crisp, stiff nibs. I really like the ‘F’ nib.

Pilot gives their nominal widths as:

 

‘Large’ means ‘wide’ en français so, in the context of nib-grades, ‘Large’ means ‘B’, and ‘Extra-large’ means ‘BB’.

It sounds as though RJS’ ‘other half’ might like to try out a Plumix that has an ‘EF’ nib.
 

I also have a 1954 Pelikan 400 with a nib that is marked ‘F’.
As @Bo Bo Olson mentioned on the first page of this thread, these pens have 14k gold nibs that have a ‘cursive italic’ or ‘stubby’ grind. And they are ‘springy’ too 😊
The 1950s Pelikan 400 has an ebonite feed, which means that it (or rather, my pen at least) lays down a very ‘wet’ line.

My pen’s ‘F’ nib is of a very similar width to the nib of my ‘F’ Plumix. Perhaps slightly wider. And it is crisp too.
I bloomin’ love it!

[arcfide]

On 6/7/2024 at 5:48 PM, RJS said:

I use 5mm or 6mm ruling, so small, but not tiny- at least to my eye. My partner... now that is tiny writing she produces!

 

Yes, I would consider that quite tiny/small. If you can use 5mm rulings with reasonable spacing and the like between the lines, then you're well in the range of tiny handwriting for English scripts traditionally. 

 

A traditional American or Roundhand x-height is smaller than the Italic x-height commonly taught, and the size of letter height that was "canonical" in the US for Spencerian would have been somewhere in the range of 1/8", or about 3.2mm, with the total letter high ascenders reaching to 9.5mm, and descenders just as far, making a 1cm line width "typical" and even compact. 1/16" was considered a small writing (Palmer started to make this size more common, I think), but that still would be "too big" to write comfortably in a 5mm ruling. 

 

With Italic and the larger x-height, the typical lowercase letter would be taller than 1/8" for most writing. Overall, for the same effective net line width, an Italic style handwriting can use a larger nib more effectively and without cramping. 

 

I personally suspect that the shift to ballpoints has encouraged many people to write smaller. A typical ballpoint writes a very fine line compared to many fountain pens or dip pens of old, and many modern scripts can support smaller writing with less skill required than in the past. 

 

Of course, the opposite seems to also be true, we do have quite a few people these days who have very large and bubbly writing, too, and for them, there are all sorts of writing implements to support them, too. 

[Doc Dan]

Has anyone tried the Pilot Vanishing Point 1.0 stub nib?

[Merrick]

11 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

Has anyone tried the Pilot Vanishing Point 1.0 stub nib?

Yes, I just returned one to a seller. When you were in the sweet spot it was very nice, good line variation and a tiny bit of bounce. However that sweet spot was very small and the slightest deviation from it led to little to no ink coming out at all. It was too finicky for me and I returned it. 
 

I do have the CM nib from a Prera installed into a Pilot Lightive and it looks very close to the VP stub but is far more forgiving. And has the benefit of being $20 instead of over $100 for the VP. 
 

The only other stub nib I have is a TWSBI on my 580 and it’s a total fire hose, even with drier inks. It would be a good candidate for shimmer inks which I don’t normally use. I tried a TWSBI Eco with a stub the other day and that felt more controlled and manageable than the 580 stub. 

[dms525]

11 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

Has anyone tried the Pilot Vanishing Point 1.0 stub nib?

I find the VP stub to be good for italic handwriting but not quite as crisp as ideal. I have another VP with a custom-ground cursive italic nib that I prefer. I don't use these for Palmer-type loopy cursive.

 

David