What company has the best stub nibs?

[InesF]

On 2/6/2024 at 1:04 AM, arcfide said:

I've been on this pursuit for a while, and I might be able to provide a little insight [...]

Woho , would like to know what your comprehensive deep dive would look like! 

 

On 2/6/2024 at 1:04 AM, arcfide said:

As a special case, I have to highlight Santini. They are doing something that almost no one else is doing, and so, if you want what they are offering, you might not be able to find it anywhere else. *However*, and this is a big point, I have never received a pen from them that was good "out of the box." [...]

That's interesting to read as I hear and read so many sweepingly positive opinions but have experienced exactly the same you describe with two Santini pens by my own. I had to rework both, plus, in one case I had to rework the whole pen.

 

 

Finally, @Doc Dan, I can add Kaweco 1.1mm steel stub and Aurora gold stub to the list; the first as a budget option, the second more like high end (but not significantly different). Both these are ready-to-use options that give additional variation with some moderate pressure.

And, there is always the possibility to grind a B or M nib by yourself into your personal preference.

[Doc Dan]

One reason that I like stub nibs is that I am like @Misfit in that I don't like to use pressure. I get a lot of line variation from my stubs and don't see the need to push the pen into the paper. I wouldn't enjoy that. I want oily glass smooth writing experiences. 

 

 

[AmericanMonk]

3 hours ago, Misfit said:

My opinion is I don’t want to work that hard [with 'flex' nibs] for line variation. Maybe I’m wrong, but to me it seems like flex nibs were a thing of the past. Unless a modern pen maker tells you the nib will flex, don’t expect it to.

I fully agree with what you and @Bo Bo Olson have said. My experience with flex nibs is limited to Noodler's (not great; does require effort), Zebra-G (doesn't require much effort but scratchy), and FPR Ultraflex (wonderful variation with minimal effort but has recently (ie, this winter) started to flow too much and burps; I'm still trying to figure that out). The biggest roadblock for me is being a lefty and not comfortable with underhand, 90-degree papers, or right-handed writing, although I'm trying out all of the above with very predictably shaky results! I love Copperplate/Spencerian scripts so I keep at it, albeit slowly.

 

But you're right. Flex nibs are largely a thing of the past. It is my understanding that they are too expensive to produce to the same quality as how they used to be made. I have some Esterbrook dip nibs which I inherited from my grandmother. Despite having "INFLEXIBLE" stamped on them, they flex (a small but noticeable amount) quite readily compared to modern day nibs. But who knows, maybe the stamp is attempting to send a, "this nib is not intended to be used as a flex nib," message rather than a, "this nib won't flex," message.

 

 

3 hours ago, Misfit said:

Birmingham Pens sells Nemosine stub nibs. They had a sale recently, so I got several. Their 1.1mm stub is a very nice one. Anderson Pens sells loose 1.1mm stub nibs.  I’ve tried those, and am happy with them too.

Good to know! Thanks for sharing! Like Doc Dan, I am always on the prowl for stub options. I appreciate Anderson's relatively low free shipping threshold and the smaller Nemosine stubs have me intrigued. You've reminded me that Goulet also offers their own brand of stubs (made by JoWo) and a variety of stubs from other brands, but I have not tried any of them.

 

 

2 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

are the Jinhao 992 able to stay inked for long periods of disuse like the TWSBI can?

TL;DR: Generally, I have confidence in both the TWSBI and 992s to start up when I need them. Both have had minor problems but neither have been routinely problematic in regards to disuse.

 

My Swipe is just a plastic snap-on cap, presumably as good as your Gos but probably not to the same standards as your Diamonds. The Swipe stays ready-to-go for the most part but I've had moments where the ink dried a bit in the feed. A little priming is usually all it takes to break the levee and get it to want to gush again. I wouldn't call it problematic but I also wouldn't say that it is as good as Platinum's slip & seal cap system. I use the Swipe very irregularly. I have several pens and pencils at my desk and usually just grab whichever one my eye finds first, so the Swipe can go unused for weeks. The difficulty I've faced with my Swipe's disassembly has led me to avoid problematic inks, so I do chalk up the rare hard start or thinner-than-normal lines to the pen and not the ink.

 

My Swipe has been loaded with Diamine Night Shade (described by Kelli at Mountainofink as having an "average" flow) since November. It starts up just fine but I have had the pairing create thinner-than-normal lines at first, which corrects itself in the span of a handful of words. Very minor. It is also on the tail end of the fill. There is only a drop remaining in the reservoir. Perhaps that is also a factor because usually it wants to gush from the start.

 

The 992s are different but ultimately equivalent. I use them with more regularity than the Swipe but don't use them every day. I also abuse them with shimmer and/or sheening inks. I currently have three 992s filled (two stubs with Diamine shimmer inks and one fine with a Monteverde ink) and—at the very least—I use one shimmer pen on Sundays when I am looking ahead at the upcoming week.

 

One of the stubs was filled with Diamine's Snow Storm ink in late December to represent January. I recently filled the other with Arctic Blue to represent February. Both start up with no issues. The fine nib with the Monteverde Gorilla ink starts up and flows like a dream every time, despite my rare need for a red ink (filled in early December). I couldn't say how much of my experience is the pen versus Monteverde's "lubricated flow technology" but they pair well together and write effortlessly when compared to any of the stubs.

 

I previously mentioned that the 992s have some nice attention to detail, especially for the price point. These features include screw-on caps with cap liners and two o-rings (the first o-ring fits between the barrel and the grip section, so that the pen can be eye-droppered if you don't want to use the included converter; the other o-ring seals the nib+feed unit into the grip). The grip butts up squarely against the cap liner but, like the Swipe, I don't think the cap liner is as good as Platinum's. I don't recall ever leaving a normal ink alone for a month and coming back to a hard start, but I have had to floss a goopy shimmer clog out of feed after some neglect in... 2022...ish? or during Covid? I don't recall the details or the ink; I just recall that a collection of shimmer occurred.

 

Hopefully that answers your question!

 

My response to Misfit's comments reminded me that I also have two FPR's stubs! I completely forgot about them because they are very forgettable. For whatever reason FPR has decided that their stubs should include tipping material. They feel like writing with cubes. They are genuinely interesting but do not, at all, feel like writing with a stub. They don't create stub-like line variation so I'd rank them below the Pilot Parallels. Still, if you're interested in trying an oddity, FPR pens & nibs are made by Kanwrite (based in India).

 

I decided to have fun grinding the tipping material off of one of them, which helped a lot but I have more grinding to do to get the variation that I cherish. I am no nibmeister so it takes a lot of trial and error. Despite my alterations, I'd recommend their Ultra-Flex nibs over their stubs every day of the week.

 

My FPR pens have been burping a lot this winter so they are currently in pen jail. Several of my pens are misbehaving—of various brands and nib types—so I am under the assumption that the misbehaviors are due to an unusually warm and dry winter and especially exacerbated by the FPRs' massive channels in the pens' ebonite feeds. If spring's humidity doesn't solve the problem I'll look into it further but I won't be experimenting with nib grinding or flexy fun until I can rule out the weather as a factor.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Flex nibs is a very, very large term.....semi-nail has a lot more flex than a nail.

 

Super-flex might be where some think about flex nibs.

Semi-flex is a flair nib, unless you practice nib abuse.

Natural pressure gives you line variation.

 

The world has changed tremendously since I started some 15 years ago....they now have so, so, many dirt cheap nibs that have been ground or sliced to be Wet Noodles. 

Good so, that way old grand nibs are not ruined by the 'noobie'.

 

On German Ebay (de.), a German semi-flex nib pen will cost you € 60 for a Geha 790 (a very good well balanced pen if you post., perhaps €100 for a Pelikan 140/400/400nn....with luck...can be €20 more..plus postage. If you hunt. One don't win, every time....if rich buy in the States Or German buy Now for the same Stateside price for $285.00

With a German '50-70 MB, Pelikan, Geha, You get the stub you want, and will find the semi....almost...flex nib gives you lots more..................I wouldn't try Stateside prices from German sellers in Buy Now....but cheaper prices in the regular auction section.

 

 

Ahab is a hard semi-flex nib......but with the Ahab/Piolot mod, a half moon ground in the shoulder of your nib with your Dremil or round Swiss file, you turn it into a superflex, first stage......Easy Full Flex....suddenly a fun nib....You can look up Ahab mod to get a good idea....and Ahab nibs are cheap enough that should you screw it up, you can try again.

A nice poster did that for me, way back when the Ahab was new....and I got to use that pen more....but I have ever so many semi or maxi-semi-flex nibs; my Ahab hangs around in Cobweb corner of my pen boxes.

[Misfit]

@Doc Dan  Yes! Nemosine nibs do fit in a TWSBI. I have the #5 size in an Eco. Just be careful pulling the TWSBI nib out. Don’t want to break any tines. 
 

@Bo Bo Olson you are correct. I do have a light hand. I noticed this when my brother and I wrote with the same pen. I do sometimes find I have the old ballpoint death grip when writing with a fountain pen. I have to stop writing, and remember I’m using a fountain pen. 
 

@InesF I forgot about Kaweco. Yes indeed, their 1.1mm stub nib is another good one. I recently paid $10 to get one added to a red Sport pen. 
 

 

edit to note I bought some 1.1mm stub nibs on AliExpress. Those I’d be hesitant to recommend. They were harder to slide into Jinhao and a DeLike pen. The tines angled away from each other on a Jinhao 82. I expected the same issue with putting the Nemosine #5 nib in, but it slid right in.  And they don’t give quite the line variation of better quality stub nibs. 

Edited February 8, 2024 by Misfit

[AmandaW]

12 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

are the Jinhao 992 able to stay inked for long periods of disuse like the TWSBI can?

Yes! I know the question wasn't directed to me, but I think my hot dry climate is so tough on fountain  pens I am qualified to answer.

 

I have a a lot of 992s in both opaque and transparent  versions with a range of nibs. They are my preferred pens for sketch kits because they resist drying out so well, yes as good as a TWSBI Eco, but so cheap if lost it's not so disappointing. I hope the finders discover fountain pens, join FPN and curse me as they get lost in the warren.

 

The 992 does get criticised for cracking, but out of my dozen that only happened to one transparent blue cap. At $2 each, and such remarkable sealing, I shrugged and ordered some more. The oldest have been in my kit since 2017 and are still good.

[Doc Dan]

3 minutes ago, AmandaW said:

Yes! I know the question wasn't directed to me, but I think my hot dry climate is so tough on fountain  pens I am qualified to answer.

 

I have a a lot of 992s in both opaque and transparent  versions with a range of nibs. They are my preferred pens for sketch kits because they resist drying out so well, yes as good as a TWSBI Eco, but so cheap if lost it's not so disappointing. I hope the finders discover fountain pens, join FPN and curse me as they get lost in the warren.

 

The 992 does get criticised for cracking, but out of my dozen that only happened to one transparent blue cap. At $2 each, and such remarkable sealing, I shrugged and ordered some more. The oldest have been in my kit since 2017 and are still good.

Thanks! I live in a tropical jungle river delta, so if I read you right, I should be okay. 

[Lam1]

My experience is: 

 

- A lone Aurora Optima Stub which is very smooth (but it needed to be aligned. In any case, I love that nib).

 

- Two Waterman Edson Stubs (one M the other B ) that are exceptional, despite being nails.  (I know they don't make the Edson anymore, but they do have Stubs for the Carenes).

 

 - My Montblancs B and BB are very smooth stubs.

 

 - The Pelikans IB are exceptional as stubs (not Italic), but too wide for my everyday use (I do a lot of math). The M400 IB is very wet, while the M800 IB is neither wet nor dry.

 

- my Pilot SU has a lot of feedback, but it is very nice.

 

 - I have a very smooth Leonardo stub and also a Delta (from the first phase of the company) that is equally very smooth.

 

- Vintage Pelikans B and BB are some of my favorites, they are stubs and have some flex.

 

But, of all my stubs, my favorite ones (except for vintage Pelikans) are the ones done by Masuyama.

[Nethermark]

I can very much recommend Lamy entry level pens for anyone wanting to experiment with stub/italic nibs. One can buy a variety of nibs at low cost and they are easy to replace in the pen. So at low cost, one can experiment with different nib sizes and find out what you like

 

https://www.lamy.com/en/lamy-nib-guide/

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Good idea Nethermark.

I have a Lamy Joy with 1.5 italic which many say is too rounded to be italic, so is a stub. I use it on days I try to do calligraphy, in I can see my mistakes better.

I could see buying that nib and the 1.2 and or the 1.0 to get a full set. The nibs are cheap enough and if i can change one so can most.

 

I do have an Osmiroid set of pure italic nibs that fit my Copper Esterbrook. And the blue one in one of my pen cases. I sadly don't go at calligraphy much.

But for regular stubs i have some 40 or so, in vintage German piston pens, which I scribble way, enjoying the natural flair of the nib's line variation. 

[Mangrove Jack]

I have Lamy steel 1.1 and 1.5 mm stub/italic nibs in my Lamy pens. I find them smooth and write with the lightest touch. I don't think gold nibs would write any smoother. 

Because they don't have sharp edges they are quite forgiving to use as EDC writing pens.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Rare earth tipping...iridium...so gold nor steel has nothing to do with how soft a nib writes. It is the exact alloy and nib geometry.

I have 18K nails that are just as nail as my hardest steel nib. I have steel nibs that are just as 'soft' as a grand gold Osmia nib.

 

I believe somewhere back in nib mythology, someone compared a steel nail with a gold semi-nail...and started the eternal rumor gold is softer than steel.

 

My Pelikan 14k 400 D, is a nails nail. My 18 K Person is as nail as one can get, so is my Cd'A 18k nail.

I do have 18k regular flex/Japanese 'soft' nibs, They are no 'softer' than a Pelikan 200's steel nib or the '82-97 400's 14 k nibs..

 

[Mangrove Jack]

The Pelikan 200's steel nib is one of my favouries. Another misconception is that gold nibs are smoother. 

[Doc Dan]

8 hours ago, Mangrove Jack said:

The Pelikan 200's steel nib is one of my favouries. Another misconception is that gold nibs are smoother. 

Thanks. I hadn't considered a Pelikan 200. Now it is on my list. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

A vintage '50-65 stubbed semi-flex 400/400nn's gold nib will fit a 200. Which balances as good as a 400 or a 140, which is a medium-small semi-flex pen with a long cap, so it matches the 400 for grand balance and length when posted.

 

[dkatiepowellart]

On 2/6/2024 at 6:53 AM, Doc Dan said:

Are any of these better than the TWSBIs that I have?

That would be my question, because I've tried many STEEL Stubs from 1.1 to 1.9 and my TWSBI Eco Stubs are my favorite, smooth writers, great for sketching.  I also have several Lamy stubs, and they are fine.  Yet, I started with Lamy, yet found TWSBI better.  Less drag, less priming of it is sitting capped for a long time.

In terms of GOLD nibs, all my gold nibs are fine. 

[Penguincollector]

  I’m rather fond of italics, and I like the stubbish qualities of certain nibs, the Pilot 78g BB is a wonderful affordable option, as are the italics of various sizes in the Pluminix range, but my best one is a 14k W. German MB broad ground to an italic while I was there to customize it to my hand. I recommend going that route if possible. I’m thinking of having the same thing done to my M Duofold this year to give it some flair. 

Edited February 11, 2024 by Penguincollector
Sorry about my run-on sentences, not well caffeinated yet.

[Mercian]

On 2/7/2024 at 3:13 PM, Doc Dan said:

One reason that I like stub nibs is that I am like @Misfit in that I don't like to use pressure. I get a lot of line variation from my stubs and don't see the need to push the pen into the paper. I wouldn't enjoy that. I want oily glass smooth writing experiences. 

 

 

If you have a light hand and you want a pen that will give you a smooth writing experience, crisp line-variation, and a little bit of ‘bounciness’ too, I too recommend a Pelikan 400 from 1950-55.

I recommend that, early, ‘400’ model over the post-1956 ‘400NN’ because I read on here that they have nib collars that are made from polystyrene, which can become brittle and crack. I don’t know about the 1956-only ‘400N’.

 

I got my first 400 this year. My pen was made in 1954, and its 14k gold nib is marked ‘F’.

It writes with a beautiful smooth feel; its cursive-italic grind is as-crisp as that on the steel ‘calligraphy’ nib on my modern Pilot Plumix, which is stamped ‘F’ and Pilot says is 0.44mm wide. That nib also writes really smoothly, but it doesn’t have the ‘springy’ ‘bouncy’ quality of the 400’s nib.

The 400 also has an ink capacity of ~2ml.

 

In my opinion, a 400 with a nib that is marked ‘M’ or ‘B’ would make an outstanding pen for signatures. My ‘F’ does make my signature prettier, but an ‘M’ or ‘B’ would give even more line-variation.

 

If you like line-variation, don’t buy a 400 with a nib that has a ‘K’ in its marking (‘FK’, ‘MK’, etc) - those have ‘Kugel’ (i.e. ‘ball’) tips that will give monoline writing, as opposed to the ‘EF’, ‘F’, ‘M’, and ‘B’ nibs, all of which have the lovely italic grind.
Also, you need to know about the nibs that are marked ‘D’ - those were very stiff nibs, because they were intended for making copies using carbon-paper. I.e. to write through (‘Durch’) three sheets of paper. They give no flex/spring/bounce whatever.
Some of the ‘D’ nibs have a second hole in the nib, in addition to the regular ‘breather hole’. The extra hole is nearer to the nib’s tipping, and it effectively shortens the length of each tine, making them less-likely to flex.

 

Edit to add:

Herebelow is a link to a chart of nib types that I found on pelikan-collectibles.com. It is for 1930s pens, but it explains the characteristics of each nib-grade:

 

[NoGaBiker]

On 2/5/2024 at 7:04 PM, arcfide said:

 

 

As a special case, I have to highlight Santini. They are doing something that almost no one else is doing, and so, if you want what they are offering, you might not be able to find it anywhere else. *However*, and this is a big point, I have never received a pen from them that was good "out of the box." I am convinced that whatever their test criteria for nibs is, it's not compatible with my own. The nibs have all come consistently tuned and aligned differently to what I prefer, and arguably "just wrong." If you are confident in your ability to work with nibs, then you can get something that is interesting and relatively unique, but if not, then I can't recommend Santini, since trying to get them adjusted to be just right is probably too much work at that point. 

 

 

 

 

Wow, I really found nearly all your comments, at least about pens I have had experience with over the past 30 years, to be very closely aligned with mine.

Especially your conclusion on Santini. In fact, upon receiving my 3rd Santini last week, a Nonagon with specially crafter Flexy Italic Medium (0.9mm) CRISP, I spent about 3 hours futzing with it -- the nib itself, when dipped, was and is sublime; everything I had wanted and anticipated. But it would not write once the feed-saturation from the filling process dried out. I opened up the feed channel with a razor, I tried different inks, I spread the tines, I closed the tines. The ink just refused to travel down the slit. I could shake it and a big blob came out, so the feed was saturated. Finally got it bent down enough at the tip that the nib was in constant contact with the feed, apparently, and now it writes like everything I had imagined. But five years ago I don't know what I would have done, as I didn't know how to work on nibs at all. And I had a similar experience on my first two Santini nibs, which also flow beautifully now. 

I found myself saying, "You clearly test wrote with this pen because there is a test sheet included with writing on it from my actual pen. That takes time. But equally clearly, you only dipped the pen; why, oh why, don't you fill and test the pens? It's not like production is so high you couldn't do it. You make the pens in batches of 33 and 98, depending on model. It takes several months usually before a run of 33 shows up as no longer available, so they are not leaping out the door. C'mon, Santini, TEST YOUR DAMN PENS!" 

But as I said, now I have three of my absolute favorite pens of all; just took a bit of work on every one of them.

[Chimera01]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Doc Dan said:

Are any of these better than the TWSBIs that I have? I have their stubs on the Go and the 580 and they write really, really well. That smoke rose gold II Diamond 580 is unbelievable and is better even than the other two. That's what got me to wondering if the grass was greener on the other side of the fence.

I have a Pelikan M1000 custom-stubbed by John Sorowka [purchased near-new second-hand from Izods]. Also Lamy, Leonardo, Sailor Music nibs, etc. I also have a number of 1.1 TWSBI Eco stubs.  IMHO the grass is no greener on the other side of the fence   Different, maybe... but definitely not greener 🤣 Those TWSBI stub nibs are just fab, although I have to say I prefer my Ecos to the 580.