Did I just get sent a fake Parker 45?

[Janeite]

I just received what I thought was going to be a "Vintage Parker 45 Deluxe Transition Flighter Fountain Pen. 14k F/nib."  Unfortunately, I am rather suspicious that this may not be an authentic, genuine Parker 45 and would appreciate receiving the input from folks who are much more experienced than I.

 

These are the resources I am using to look for the characteristics of a genuine 45:

 

https://parker45pens.com/parker-45-flighter/

https://parkerpens.net/parker45.html

 

I don't see any indication on the nib that it is 14k, or that it is a Parker, and I would have expected both to be there.

 

 

My next concern is that the only place that I see the word "Parker" is on the barrel.  Are there any other locations where I should see this, if it's a genuine 45?

 

The top of the cap does not appear to align with any of the 45 caps, as it is not an inverted conical (as the picture on the reference site above seemed to show the point of the cone pointing in towards the pen and not out toward the world), dimpled, or dish type of cap.  I don't think this would be considered a cabochon jewel, but I defer to you all as the experts.  And if the conical cap is supposed to point away from the rest of the pen, then the reference sites indicate that the barrel should have a gold end cap, which this pen does not have (this one has no separate end cap).

 

 

I understand that this is a vintage item, but I would have anticipated a better fit from old school production values.  Even if the gold was flaking off the steel, I would think all the parts would line up flush with one another.  This pen was manufactured in Argentina, but I would think that production standards would be held to the same standard if it was going out with the Parker name. 

 

 

Please let me know if I am way off base or which elements I've pointed out (or missed) would lead you to believe that this is not a genuine Parker 45.  Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Cuppatea]

Not an expert! The nib area looks like my 45s. You have to take the nib out to see any branding or karat indication.

https://parker45pens.com/nibs/

I hope you find out more. I don’t have any made in Argentina pens. My Made in England cap does differ from the Made in USA. Actually the two USA caps differ too.

good luck and let us know what you find out.

[Number99]

I am not familiar with the Argentine Parker 45 but I think this thread will be helpful.

If it is a real Argentine 45 I envy you as they are hard to get in the area I am in.

P.S.

There are several different variants of the Parker 45, including cross-border, country of manufacture, and market-specific.

I have several variants of the Parker 45 that I believe are exclusive to the Japanese market. (made in the USA and England.)

The Parker45pens.com article is probably based on the European market.(The timeline is also slightly different from the Japanese market.)

You will have to do your own research on Parker 45s in other markets.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Number99

[bsenn]

I see nothing that makes me think it is not a made in Argentina 45. As mentioned, to see any markings on the nib you have to disassemble the nib unit.

[Number99]

You may already know this, but just in case, we share a YouTube program that explains how to disassemble a nib.

Disassembly line Parker 45 Flighter by SBREBROWN.

https://youtu.be/iOaaeRyOL3g?feature=shared

 

extension.

If the nib/feed unit is stuck with ink, soak the section unit in water overnight before working on it.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Number99

[Janeite]

Thank you everyone for your responses so far.  They have been reassuring.  The thread on Argentinian 45s was very useful and the Youtube video was invaluable @Number99.  As the section doesn't want to unscrew from the collar holding the nib (perhaps I'm using the wrong terms, but it was around the 44 second mark in the video), I'm now soaking it in some warm water in case it's an issue of dried ink causing issues. 

 

As with the Argentinian Parkers mentioned in the other thread, mine does say Industria in front of Argentina.  I just looked at it for a date code of some sort, but was unable to see any with my regular glasses, though I'll have to pull out my loupe again tomorrow. 

 

I really appreciate everyone's help, as the condition of the pen where the barrel and cap meets was not well captured in the vendor's photos, which put me on my guard.  I will update tomorrow once I am (hopefully) able to remove the nib to look for additional details. 

[Beechwood]

 

 

I know nothing about the Argentina 45s but other 45s were easy to take apart, the nib unit unscrews and can be cleaned or replaced very easily. This eliminates the need for soaking to remove old ink.

 

 

 

[OCArt]

15 minutes ago, Beechwood said:

....

16 minutes ago, Beechwood said:

I know nothing about the Argentina 45s but other 45s were easy to take apart, the nib unit unscrews and can be cleaned or replaced very easily. This eliminates the need for soaking to remove old ink.

 

Yes, the nib unit is very easily removed but I've found a *lot* of dried ink can stay in the feed and can take a long soak to remove. YMMV 

[amk]

Do not remove 45 nibs in the sink. Use a small bowl. They are so weeny and tiny and the plug hole is so big....

 

But yes, they are easy to remove and clean (and spot the 'parker' inscription) once you've soaked them. One of mine took three days to remove all the crud, but once cleaned up, wrote perfectly.

[Mark from Yorkshire]

I would say that pen has been abused, certainly looks like some kind of tool marks on it. Not sure if it is real or not. I am not familiar with Parker 45’s.

[inkstainedruth]

@Janeite Some of my 45s have steel nibs, so that shouldn't worry you all that much.  And I've seen nibs and nib units for sale on eBay over the years.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Janeite]

After nearly 18 hours of soaking, I was finally able to finish disassembling the pen.  The nib does indeed say 583 Parker.  It also says Industria Argentina on it along with V-89.  I looked at this page that was referenced in the other thread on dating 45s, and nothing seems to fit.  Also, this page on nib codes doesn't seem to have anything that fits either.  I'm wondering if it's a a model that was made in 1989, though I have no idea what the V would be for.  Perhaps May of 1989?  Maybe many of the Argentinian 45s (or 45s with no date code on the cap/barrel) have some kind of dating on the nib?

 

2 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Some of my 45s have steel nibs, so that shouldn't worry you all that much.

All my other nibs are steel, which I am fine with, but this one was advertised as having a 14k nib, which is why I want to make sure it's there. 

 

13 hours ago, Mark from Yorkshire said:

I would say that pen has been abused, certainly looks like some kind of tool marks on it.

 

This is the photo that the vendor had of the pen:

 

 

I don't see any of the tooling/scraping marks between the cap and the barrel that I shared photos of above.  Would it be fair for me to mention this to the seller, or is this something that I should be prepared for when buying used items from the bay?

[Ron Z]

It is a used pen.  It would be unusual for a pen that is used not to have some wear and marks on it, especially if the pen has not been restored/reconditioned before being sold and if the owner liked the pen and used it quite a bit.  Pictures somehow manage to magnify the little flaws that we would accept or overlook when viewed with the naked eye.

 

The clip comes off, so the scratch buff finish can be reapplied to cap and barrel fairly easily.  If the plating on the trim is not badly worn, and there are no dents in the cap or barrel, you have a good pen.

[Janeite]

1 hour ago, Ron Z said:

The clip comes off, so the scratch buff finish can be reapplied to cap and barrel fairly easily.  If the plating on the trim is not badly worn, and there are no dents in the cap or barrel, you have a good pen.

 

To make sure I'm understanding you correctly, the gold-looking trim can be fixed fairly easily?  If you're talking about the light scratches on the stainless steel body parts, I totally expect those on a pen like this.  This is the area that I'm referring to.

 

On 12/28/2023 at 6:28 PM, Janeite said:

 

[Penguincollector]

  You can find replacement clutch rings at Five Star Pens or on eBay if the plating is coming off. 

[Number99]

2 hours ago, Janeite said:

After nearly 18 hours of soaking, I was finally able to finish disassembling the pen.  The nib does indeed say 583 Parker.  It also says Industria Argentina on it along with V-89.  I looked at this page that was referenced in the other thread on dating 45s, and nothing seems to fit.  Also, this page on nib codes doesn't seem to have anything that fits either.  I'm wondering if it's a a model that was made in 1989, though I have no idea what the V would be for.  Perhaps May of 1989?  Maybe many of the Argentinian 45s (or 45s with no date code on the cap/barrel) have some kind of dating on the nib?

This is the first image I have seen of the Argentine Parker 45 nib.

Thanks for sharing the image.

Regarding the V89 engraving, I don't think the American, English, and French Parker 45 nibs had any engraving other than the PARKER or PARKER logo, gold grade, and country of manufacture.(The French nibs have the workshop mark.)

So I too think that V89 is a unique Argentine stamp.

I also think that the stamping of 585 also differs from other countries in that it is stamped within a horizontal rectangle.

It is interesting to note that the slit on the Argentine Parker 45 nib reaches the breather hole.

 

[Janeite]

58 minutes ago, Penguincollector said:

You can find replacement clutch rings at Five Star Pens or on eBay if the plating is coming off.

 Thank you!  I just found them.  For others' reference down the line, the gold-looking clutch rings cost $7 and the chrome ones cost $6.  From my reading, these are friction fit, so I would just slide off the old one and put on the new one?

[lobster]

Is the "583" common? I have never seen it before. All my gold nibs says "585".
583 is more correct though.

[Number99]

On 12/30/2023 at 11:22 AM, Number99 said:

I also think that the stamping of 585 also differs from other countries in that it is stamped within a horizontal rectangle.

   …

3 hours ago, lobster said:

Is the "583" common? I have never seen it before. All my gold nibs says "585".
583 is more correct though.

Good eye!

That point makes me curious as to why other countries have labeled it 585.

😯

That's interesting.

 

P.S.

I too would like to know if the 583 indication on the Argentine 45 nib is common.

Edited January 2, 2024 by Number99

[Lapicera Argentina]

Dear friend: I am from Argentina and I have several of those pens. The pen´s nib of the argentine Parker 45 is gold. It is the so-called "second grade gold", it is known as 583 or 14 carat gold (14/24). That is, for every 24 parts by weight of the alloy, 14 of them are pure gold and the remaining 10 of them are other metals.
It is a very noble and highly sought after pen, prior to 1970.