Is how much you paid for a pen taboo?

[Waltz For Zizi]

I've noticed many many times, probably close to 99% of the time, in Youtube reviews and even here, that when people buy pre-owned pens they do not mention the price but instead say "it was a good price" or something like that. This sometimes happens with new pens too if they are bought at a discount, but mostly on pre-owned ones.

Why is that? Is this a taboo in the English speaking world that to mention the price is a No No? Is it that it will make other people jealous if you got a pen real cheap? I for one would like to know when people buy pens for "pennies" so I know not to jump at the first "good" price I might see on a certain pen because I might think I cannot do better, and wait a little more.

[Zookie]

Personally, I could care less what someone pays for a pen. Maybe it has to do with the MSRP ( suggested retail price). Pay less, it's a good deal. Pay more, not so good.

With used pens, I use buyers guides ( same principal ).

That's just my opinion. I'm sure others see it differently.

[A Smug Dill]

7 hours ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

Is this a taboo in the English speaking world that to mention the price is a No No?

 

I think it's often considered uncouth or vainglorious in the West to communicate — either in outright disclosure, or by hinting — one's net worth, (total or disposable) income, and such; and intrusive and rude to probe others about theirs, in polite company. That's why it's somewhat of a no-no to tell, or ask, others in general conversation for how much one's new home was bought, or previous home was sold; and, by extension, talk of either the value or the paid price of other notable assets and material acquisitions.

 

But that mentality would not apply to a loaf of bread, a pair of socks, a pack of pencils, and other common and relatively cheap commodities and/or consumables.

 

Between those two poles of ‘things’ is a spectrum; and on where a particular pen is considered to lie will depend both on the actual pen (by its type, e.g. pen hand-finished in raised maki-e and urushi; or its identification, e.g. unit 001/333 of a numbered limited edition; or market value or street price; or rarity, etc.) as well as how the owner subjectively sees it (e.g. some may think a Pilot Custom Heritage 92 as a ‘grail’ pen, while others think it's in the tier of entry-level Japanese gold-nibbed pens).

 

7 hours ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

Is it that it will make other people jealous if you got a pen real cheap?

 

It could be that concern, or something different but nevertheless premised on replication or replicability of that acquisition.

 

If I'm reviewing a pen — which I generally don't do, not holistically anyway, instead of just talking about specific characteristics in a narrow way — I'd ask myself, in formulating the content and presentation: do I want (any member of) the audience to be keen to replicate the ‘value’ I got from the pen (overall, or evaluated on a per dollar spent basis); or even expect guidance from me, by way of the review content, as to how, e.g. from where to buy, how to stack discount codes and promotional offers, use what techniques to extract a certain level of performance from the material item, and so on?

 

To me, that's not reviewing a product from a user's, a hobbyist's, or even a (dare I say) collector's or curator's point-of-view. I may not be able to completely separate out my consumerism, in looking at (cf. review) the thing and talking about it; but I shouldn't be at all concerned about anyone else's consumerism, and especially not how they could be(come) ‘better’ consumers, or get more out of their time, effort, and/or dollars spent. Even if I was of a mind to help others in that manner, it wouldn't be in a product review; but a tutorial or some such that are targeted at — and, should I say, ‘require’ — an audience who want to learn more than they already know, from someone who (in that particular regard and/or particular instance) knows more than them.

 

Thus, if I must refer to price in a review, I should be using retail price — preferably on the manufacturer's home ground, e.g. MSRP in the Japanese domestic market for a Pilot pen, but failing that, the RRP in Australia because that is where the audience can reasonably expect concerns me (in my product review), as opposed to trying to assume their perspective and cater to their personal interests — instead of my effective spend.

 

I make an exception to that for cheap Chinese pens, because effectively there is no MSRP or RRP, none of the brands have official distributors in various English-speaking overseas markets, and the prices for the same products are so vastly different on AliExpress, Amazon, eBay, Etsy and potentially between sellers on each platform. Telling others that I paid, on average, less than the equivalent of US$1.50 per unit for the nine Jinhao 35 pens I got (and without explaining the details of how and from where/whom) just contributes another data point out of dozens, if not hundreds, of pricing data points someone would come across; and realistically nobody buying a sub-US$5 pen is going to insist on using the lowest price they've seen mentioned by others, as their critical buy-or-no-buy criterion.

 

8 hours ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

I for one would like to know when people buy pens for "pennies" so I know not to jump at the first "good" price I might see on a certain pen because I might think I cannot do better, and wait a little more.

 

Sure, and there's nothing wrong at all with wanting to know; but what has that got to do with a review of a writing instrument, if the focus of your question in this thread is about pen reviews on YouTube and/or on FPN?

[DrPlush]

I wonder if this information is just considered not that helpful to include because it is heavily influenced by the market the reviewer is in (especially if they have an international audience) and any special connections they have, as well as time — if they are trying to make videos that will be watched for years, then the price they paid last week is not that relevant to include in the long term. It’s also another data point for the reviewer to keep track of (versus finding the current RRP, which they could search online quickly), which is fine, but they might not be motivated to do so if the information doesn’t seem particularly meaningful anyway.

[PPPR]

No expert here, but couldn't there be a venal reason for avoiding purchase prices in these reviews? Could the reviewers withhold purchase prices to avoid affecting market prices for their next purchase? My guess is that's more likely than anything else.

HTH

[Jayebird]

9 minutes ago, DrPlush said:

I wonder if this information is just considered not that helpful to include because it is heavily influenced by the market the reviewer is in (especially if they have an international audience) and any special connections they have, as well as time — if they are trying to make videos that will be watched for years, then the price they paid last week is not that relevant to include in the long term. It’s also another data point for the reviewer to keep track of (versus finding the current RRP, which they could search online quickly), which is fine, but they might not be motivated to do so if the information doesn’t seem particularly meaningful anyway.

I think it's often along these lines - I've even heard a couple reviewers mention this as a reason not to provide price. Vintage pens are so variable based on geography, condition of the pen, current trends, etc.... not to mention quite simply how much a purchaser wants a specific pen (which can get down to particular nib sizes being easier to find than others for example). Putting the price in the review could also increase negative comments to a video with people piling on on whether it was "worth" the price paid. Probably not the discussion most reviewers are trying to kick off.

[Runnin_Ute]

Relevance might be a factor in some cases.

 

For example, some time back (~2015) I won an eBay auction for a Pelikan 120 Merz & Krell with a M nib for $17.50. Terrific price AT THE TIME, even though some of the trim had some plating loss, but it works great. But today in 2023, what I paid for a pen 8 years ago has no relevance to today's market.  The same pen today, might bring two or three times that.

 

A M200 Blue Marbled (old style) I bought around the same time (OB nib), I got for a good price, but not a price I would consider a sumgai price like the 120 M & K. The seller had listed two identical pens, one with the OB the other with a M and had them end within a very short time from one another on the same day. Certainly within an hour or two, and very possibly much less. (minutes)  Both went for virtually identical prices, only $0.01 separating final sales price between the two. Again that pen with that nib today would be significantly more.

 

I have revealed the price I paid many times since, but it isn't relevant to today's market. But it is interesting from a historical perspective.

[txomsy]

Personally, I think that the main reason is that it is irrelevant. Whether a price is good or not is defined only in terms relative to the price of other goods. If you can speak of "a" price.

 

In normal circumstances, where price is relatively controlled, a quote may be helpful, for instance, the cost of a pen currently in production (say, a Preppy vs. a Pelikano), but when you talk of second-hand market, the volatility is very high, not just across years because of inflation or demand, but even from one day or week to the next depending on many factors (like the interest it raises, existence of a recent favorable review, proximity of holidays, appearance of a seller with urgency or with little knowledge of the real value, opportunity, desperation, overall interest...).

 

Just look on eBay finished transactions: you may see the same pen going anywhere from 1 to 20 times more, some times at the same time. And that's for one item. E.g. currently, an Aurora Hastil can go from 30 to 400 bucks, some times at the same time, for the same model. Still, compared to, e.g., a Montblanc Slimline, both are probably relatively little known, the Aurora will be more iconic for knowers and the MB brand and logo more well known to the public. Probably that's why both seem to command relatively similar price ranges.

 

Then comes overall "fashion": if pens become attractive more people with less criteria and more money enters the market, they pay higher prices regardless of actual worth, and overall prices increase. Usually, a pen that was relatively "cheap" ten years ago, will keep on being relatively cheap afterwards, but actual prices will fluctuate heavily.

 

And availability, as some products disappear, their price rises.

 

As an example: a NOS (new, old stock) Reform 1745 was something like a few bucks 20 years ago. When people noticed they were relatively good, bouncy, piston fillers they raised to about ten bucks and stayed there for long, then interest diminished but, they not being produced any more, old stock depleted, and now you can see them for 50 bucks (and up to 135).

 

They were school pens. If they were still made, they would likely still be relatively cheap. As they become more rare, a NOS one demands a premium price. But if you compare their price with other similar piston filler pens in a similar state (whether NOS or second hand), they usually run relatively cheaper (reflecting the corresponding differences in quality and availability).

 

Availability... as long as there are 1745 NOS at a good price, interest for second hand ones will probably be low. Once they run out, second hand ones will likely start to appear at higher prices. And as time passes and buyers ignore they were cheap school pens, or do not care about this (like e.g. with the Geha school pens and others), second hand ones may demand a higher price --if interest is still alive. The absolute quote of yesterday will last only so much.

 

However, whatever the current price, a better quality (or better perceived, marketing also counts) pen will still demand higher prices, e.g. Montblanc >~ Pelikan >~ Geha >~ Reform. Whatever the current price, unless something weird happens, a Reform will continue to be great bang for the buck (though less quality) w.r.t., say, a Montblanc 146, and more affordable than a similarly looking (but much higher quality) Pelikan m200/400, and at similar prices, a Geha will probably be more attractive than the Reform because of the flexier nib.

 

It is the relationships that count. Actual figures will not tell you much. For any pen, you may expect 20x price ranges at any given time point, but relatively, the large ranges for some of the pens will be better or worse than the wide ranges for the others and the quality/price ratio commensurate.