Jump to content

What Happens To Iron Gall Ink When It Oxidizes?


ndw76

Recommended Posts

I wanted to ask the question here before I resorted to doing numerous experiments. A month or two ago I did an activity with my kids, making iron gall ink. The recipe made enough ink to last me a couple of years of heavy writing. I noticed that when I open a new bottle the ink goes on the paper as a grey ink, but quickly oxidized to a dark black. This is what it is supposed to do. But I also noticed that after the bottle had been opened for a while the ink started to go onto the paper more black. It was oxidizing in the bottle.

 

I'm sure it would always be better to use smaller bottles and use fresher ink, but that would mean planning to have enough bottles and it's too late now.

Does anyone think there would be any degradation to the performance of the ink if it oxidizes in the bottle instead of on the page?

 

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

Cheers, 

 

Nathan

Please call me Nathan. It is a pleasure to meet you.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/606/letterji9.pnghttp://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5642/postcardde9.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 3
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Ron Z

    1

  • ndw76

    1

  • A Smug Dill

    1

  • XYZZY

    1

Top Posters In This Topic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_gall_ink#Chemistry

Quote

 

By mixing tannin with iron sulfate, a water-soluble ferrous tannate complex is formed. Because of its solubility, the ink is able to penetrate the paper surface, making it difficult to erase. When exposed to air, it converts to a ferric tannate, which is a darker pigment. This product is not water-soluble, contributing to its permanence as a writing ink.

 

The darkening process of the ink is due to the oxidation of the iron ions from ferrous (Fe2+) to ferric (Fe3+) state by atmospheric oxygen. For that reason, the liquid ink needs to be stored in a well-stoppered bottle, and often becomes unusable after a time.

 

 

I cleaned out a couple of pocket pens yesterday. Each had a full cartridge's (re)fill of Pelikan 4001 Blue/Black ink in it for the past several months; but while the Pilot's fill was drawn from a bottle I bought from Cult Pens in August 2021, the Moonman's fill was drawn from a bottle that is more than a decade old. The formulation of the retail product may have changed in the intervening years between the two bottles' production dates, but I'm not certain. The older one is much less saturated in terms of colour (i.e. it is mostly grey), and the newer one is relatively more blue, when laid on the page. The older ink leaves a fainter mark on the page after the sheet of paper is soaked, compared with the newer ink.

 

But even a change in formulation cannot account for the amount of insoluble particles in the older ink. Both pocket pens were close to (but not quite yet) having lost all of the unused ink in them to evaporation, even though both still (barely) wrote. The Pilot was clean after one ultrasonic cleaning cycle and then a pressurised flush with a bulb syringe. The Moonman was still shedding black soot-like particles after the third five-minute cleaning cycle in the ultrasonic cleaning tank (with pressurised flushes in-between). On account of that, I'd say there was a lot of microscopic insoluble particles suspended in the older bottle of ink, that would not only be apt to produce clogging in a fountain pen, but also contribute little to the permanence of the ink marks produced with the old ink, since in that state there is nothing in the liquid part of the ink to bind them to the fibres/substrate; friction from rubbing, or pressurised flushing with water, of the paper surface should be sufficient to dislodge a significant proportion of the insoluble particles deposited.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps most fundamental, for me, is that IG inks are _fun_ because they change after you write due to the oxidation.  If you were to let it completely oxidize so that all the iron precipitates out before writing then that fun part is gone.

 

One of my assumptions about iron gall:  the iron is in solution, and when you write on the paper some of the liquid penetrates the surface, so that when the iron oxidizes out it is in the paper, which probably enhances it's durability.  As opposed to a pigment ink where more of it presumably on the paper.  If you were to let an IG ink oxidize in the bottle so that the iron precipitates out before you write with it, then isn't it a pigment ink at that point?  I realize that I am oversimplifying, as presumably a pigment ink could have the pigment particles small enough that they, too, get embedded into the paper.

 

There is definitely a common wisdom in the FP community that you don't want the precipitated iron in your pen, as it will clog.  Hence the recommendation to NOT shake the IG bottle before filling: just leave the sludge at the bottom of the bottle in the bottle.  I don't know if this is really true.  I would expect that this is true if the particles are too big, but are they?  If the particles are similar in size to what is in a normal pigment ink, then would it not be safe?  Or if a little bigger, like the size of particles in a shimmer ink, would it not also be safe but perhaps with the caveat of a recommendation to use in a cheaper or easier to clean pen?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've use vintage Parker and Sheaffer iron gall inks.  No problems with particulate matter in them.  If the bottle is sealed well and is reasonably full, they tend to hold their color quite well.  Older blue-black Sheaffer inks turned gray.  The Parker permanent Royal Blue retained it's color well.  We're talking inks from the 40s and maybe 50s.  I quit using them when I decided to start using Pelikan Royal blue for my writing and testing pens.

 

Keep in mind that the ferogalic inks can corrode steel nibs.  I had some Retro 51 nibs that pitted along the underside of the slit, and on the underside where the nib made contact with the feed.  I recommend using the inks only with gold nibs.  But I do appreciate how permanent they are.

spacer.png
Visit Main Street Pens
A full service pen shop providing professional, thoughtful vintage pen repair...

Please use email, not a PM for repair and pen purchase inquiries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33501
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...