Montblanc 144 (pretty bad) ink flow issue

[en_ky]

Hi everyone!

 

So... this burgundy 144 is starting to annoy me more and more. It was a gift so nothing to complain much about (well, I gifted back my Pilot Deluxe Urushi to thank this person... and that pen wrote beautifully) but it seems there's no way to be able to make this pen writes as it should.

Starting from the beginning i washed this thing trhoughtfully and after 2 days and a couple of ultrasonic baths I was able to remove the nib from the section. Washed again the feeder (unfortunately is the plastic one) and the nib itself i tought that the hard part was over.

It was not. When loaded with the original converter it writes but as soon as the load runs out it stops writing completly; until you go and give the converter another twist there's just no way for the pen to start writing again. Sometimes it will start wrting again on its own but only for a couple of strokes... then it stops again.

i thought it was because the tines were too close togheter and after a little bit of tuning i opened them with a consistent gap that seems very pleasant. It was not that; same problem. So i even tried to heat seat the feeder to the nib and even tough it's plastic it worked kind of well but the problem is still there, still the same. 

I will attach some close ups of the pen as it seats now but I'm running out of options... could be a baby bottom problem? but again... it stops completely to write after the "twist" from the converter runs out.

 

Any idea? suggestions? 

 

Thank you very much!

[JulieParadise]

It is always hard to tell from pictures only, as tinkering and hands-on playing with a pen is the most promising way to find a solution, but ...:

 

-- Maybe the tines are now a bit too far apart? -->Slightly and carefully pressing them back together a tiny bit could be a solution.

 

-- Maybe the tip of the nib is too far away from the end of the feed? --> Turn the pen over and slightly and very carefully/gently try to bend the tip of the nib towards the end of the feed with something that allows you to put pressure on the (underside/normally downward facing) part of the nib tip between the tipping and the feed. (Try this before or instead of pressing the tines together, as often this bending pushes the tip of the nib/the tines together anyway. You do not want it to be pressed towards each other too much.)

 

-- Maybe the problems lies elsewhere: Did you make sure you did not tough nib and feed with residue of hand oils on your fingers? --> Then flushing the tip and the feed with detergent might do the trick.

 

Good luck and: Be gentle and careful!

[en_ky]

Thank you for your suggestion Julie! Pretty sure that i touched the feed with clean hands the last time but another wash could be the first thing to try... speaking of which... what do you think about an ultrasonic bath in a 10% ammonia solution?

I noticed this (attached image) "hole" that I'm not even really sure what's for but if deep in the feed there is a really small channel  for the ink to flow it could be that it is still clogged? Maybe water+soap wasn't enough to penetrate and dissolve everything... 

 

 

[Mr.Rene]

The feed and nib gap is main problem hire I think.. 🤔

[Asterias]

1 hour ago, Mr.Rene said:

The feed and nib gap is main problem hire I think.. 🤔

This is the problem!

[en_ky]

thank you both for the consideration... any suggestion on the right procedure to eliminate this gap? Tried with the heat setting of the feeder but it wasn't enough at this point.

 

[en_ky]

quuick update: after a couple more heat setting the problem of the feed seems to be solved; but sadly the pen still behave the same

[Paul-in-SF]

I wonder if the ink is not flowing properly from the converter. If surface tension is holding the ink close to the sides of the converter, it might not flow as it should. I've never seen this converter, does it have anything in it (like tiny ball bearings, or a spring) to break up surface tension? 

 

It seems to me that, if the ink is flowing properly once the ink is forced into the feed, that the problem might be earlier in the ink flow than the nib and feed. I also agree with checking the flow from the back of the feed through that little hole and into the outer channel. If it were me, I would write until it stops writing and then carefully pull the feed and see if there is anything in that outer channel -- messy, but possibly effective. At the same time, I would carefully pull out the converter to see how the ink is disposed inside it at that point when the flow fails. 

[CS388]

Looks to be in good shape, now.

I'd usually blame old dried-up ink for this behaviour, but it looks like you've cleaned it all out, so I doubt that's the fault.

I'm pleased to see that you got the nib sitting well on the feed tip.

For my money, the gap in-between the tines is slightly too wide - but you mention that you had the problem before this, so probably not that?

 

Paul-in-SF makes a good point about the converter. These can be tricky and air-locks are a common problem. If you can get your hands on a cartridge (simple international short) and try it with that, you could see if that solves the issue? If it does, then you can buy a new converter for these pens, for not too much money

 

It's a shame, because these pens tend to be good reliable writers, in my experience.

 

Hope you get it sorted.

[dipper]

There are many possible causes. All suggestions made above are good ideas. With persistence we will find the problem!!!

 

The little hole??

 

My guess is that hole is part of the air breather path. Important, because if air cannot get into the converter then the ink-fissures will be unable to pull ink out.

(Or it could be just a blind hole for some other purpose.)

A possible path for air to enter the converter is in through the nib breather hole, up through the rectangular trough in top of feed between feed and underside of the nib body, at the end of the trough - down into the little hole (?), some route not discernable in photos to the back of the feed ... around the L-shaped channel seen at the lower back corner of the feed in photos 8 and 9, and a sharp left turn down onto the top of the short post that projects from the back of the feed, along the trough in that post through the neck of the converter, and into the ink held in the converter - bubble bubble bubble....

 

Tests - bearing in mind that this could be just a blind hole...🤔🤔

1) Try to blow or suck air or water through the hole.

2) Compare pen behaviour A - with converter as full of ink as possible, vs B - converter 1/4 ink and 3/4 air space with piston fully "up". If air path to converter is blocked then the pen will write longer in test B, because the large air space can expand somewhat with less drop in pressure.

3) (This one is tricky with a screw converter). When the filler is operated, does ink rise up into the ink chamber unusually s..l..o..w..l..y..? The usual route for bottle ink to enter the ink chamber is through the feed's air breather path. (The ink fissures are tiny in comparison.) If ink suck-up is slow that could indicate a blocked breather.

 

The ink path down through the feed

 

As already suggested, problems with air-locks and surface tension in the neck of the converter may prevent ink from even touching the back end of the ink fissures in the feed. But also well worth checking the feed itself, if only to eliminate causes.

 

With feed disassembled, dry, and laid horizontal as in photographs, place a drop of ink onto the post that projects from the back of the feed. When that drop disappears inside the feed, add another drop, and another. Eventually you should see ink wicking its way into the single fissure at the far end of the feed, where it would continue into the nib slit in an assembled pen.

 

Another test, messy but fun:

Assemble nib, feed and grip section. Omit converter and pen body. Mount the assembly nib downwards touching a pad of paper towel. With a pipette, drip ink (or inky water for economy) into the back of the grip section to cover the back end of the feed. Avoid flooding the section by overfilling. The aim is to allow the paper towel and feed to draw ink through the ink fissure system of feed and nib, unconstrained by any breather problems.

 

(Using distilled water and surfactant that setup is how I clean pen sections that have ink collector fins burried inside. At each pipette fill the hidden fin slits are flooded with rinse water, then when draining is complete the fin slits are all emptied onto the paper towel by capillary action.)

[en_ky]

Thank you very much for your suggestions, you guys are very nice!

 

So.. little update... I tested all the cases with an original montblanc cartridge (with the plastic ball inside) as well as the converter and the problem stays the same unfortunately. Then I was tryng to approach the "2)" test that dipper suggested. I started with this simple thing that i don't normally do: loading the pen with the converter dipping the nib in the ink bottle (for reference, I'm trying all this with a bottle of iroshizuku shin-kai). Yes, normally I load the converters with a siringe if I can as I hate to see my nibs dirty.

With my "surprise" the ink arrived only at the very base of the converter; it didn't fill the tank at all. At this point the clogged breather channel seems to me plausible...

 

what do you think? 

[CS388]

Interesting.

Something is preventing the ink from filling the converter, so I assume the same thing will be preventing it from flowing out evenly. It's exhibiting all the symptoms of a blockage - which is strange, considering you've had the pen to pieces and cleaned it all out?

 

Have you tried to fill the converter straight from the bottle (converter out of the pen)

If it fills correctly, then the problem is in the pen.

If not, then it's the converter.

 

(Converters for this pen are easy to come by. Not sure which country you're in, but we can get them in the UK for around £10, so they're not too much money - and if it fixes the problem, it's a bargain!)

 

Good luck

[en_ky]

Yeah, the converter is working fine on its own and I also have a couple both used and new that i bought for other MBs... the problem is indeed the pen; I'll try to bath the feed into a solution of 10% ammonia, a drop of soap and distilled water in an ultrasonic cleaner for 20min. Let's see...

I cleaned it well but I'm not so sure about the brehating channel; that is lice a capillar inside the feeder and maybe just water and soap was not enough...

Edited May 3, 2023 by en_ky

[JulieParadise]

Have you tried blowing through the grip section? Sometimes this simple trick gets out whatever is stuck inside. You may also fill the small "well" where the converter/cartridge connect plugs into the feed with some water and then blow through the grip+feed. Just make sure you're not spitting into the grip section. 😉 

[en_ky]

16 minutes ago, JulieParadise said:

Have you tried blowing through the grip section? Sometimes this simple trick gets out whatever is stuck inside. You may also fill the small "well" where the converter/cartridge connect plugs into the feed with some water and then blow through the grip+feed. Just make sure you're not spitting into the grip section. 😉 

Yeah, tried that... air goes trough but not as freely as I think it should. 

[CS388]

1 hour ago, en_ky said:

I'll try to bath the feed into a solution of 10% ammonia, a drop of soap and distilled water in an ultrasonic cleaner for 20min. Let's see...

 

Yes, this will/should clear out any of the small channels of the feed.

Bear in mind that dried ink can be very stubborn and it might take more than one attempt.

 

Fingers crossed.

[en_ky]

So.. I've an update.

 

after 4 hours in the ammonia solution and 45minutes of ultrasonic treatment.... absolutely nothing changed. I noticed some deposit at the bottom of the ultrasonic washer and i strongly suspect that the breathing path of this feeder is compromised.

I did this tough. In my collection I had another 144 that had its feeder replaced not long ago and wasn't inked since. I took that feeder and installed in this burundy one. Et voilà, now the flow is excellent and the pen dosen't run dry anymore. It's not perfectly coupled with the nib as the heat seated previous one but still... now it writes! 

I don't now if it's worth keep trying to unclog that feeder or just buy a replacement one off ebay but if it does not cost too much i think I'll go with option number 2.

[en_ky]

Second Update:

 

The problem is finally SOLVED!!! 

 

I just couldn't give up on the original feeder of this pen so I disassmbled the new that I just installed and carefully compared it with the original, clogged one. Eureka! The problem was there all this time, it was now clear as it could be.

that "little hole" that i pointed out on my second post was completely blocked! Just seing the new feeder i could apprciate how that little hole is litterally just a hole that goes trough the feeder and IT IS THE MAIN CHANNEL for the ink to go from the bottom of the feeder up to the top where the nib sits!

In the new feeder is clear how the light goes trough that hole, in the original one that hole was completely shut close. So i took a needle and carefully open up again the road for the ink to flow! It was clogged by a black goo that only the needle could help to remove. Now the hole is clean and wide open and the pen writes beautifully (maybe even too wet, but i like that).

 

Thank you all for the journey and will continue to write and exchange opinion with you!

Edited May 3, 2023 by en_ky

[CS388]

Congratulations. Glad to hear it.

 

While you're deciding what to do, put the suspect feeder into a glass of water and leave it there - for days.

It's surprising what time can do.

 

Well done for persevering!

Enjoy your pen

 

Edited to add: Just saw your latest post! Even better.

 

[en_ky]

Unfortunately we are at it again. 

 

After writing with it a little bit it ran dry again. Don't know what to think; now that "hole" is completely free but it runs dry after a while nonetheless. The feed is seems to be clean but for some reason this damn ink want flow down this nib for more than some lines of writing. 

Really don't know what to think at this point.