Help with a Sheaffer fountain pen

[Gdbbsjxk]

First, I want to know the authenticity of this pen

Second, I want to know the year it was make or produced (I don’t need an exact answer just an estimate)

Third, I want to know if it has any defects

Forth, I want to know it’s rarity

Fifth, I want to know it’s value (The average value of the same pen in this condition)

Sixth, I want to know what model this pen is.

Thanks please reply

 

 

[OCArt]

13 minutes ago, Gdbbsjxk said:

First, I want to know the authenticity of this pen

Second, I want to know the year it was make or produced (I don’t need an exact answer just an estimate)

Third, I want to know if it has any defects

Forth, I want to know it’s rarity

Fifth, I want to know it’s value (The average value of the same pen in this condition)

Sixth, I want to know what model this pen is.

Thanks please reply

It seems like you are asking the same questions for many different pens. As a newcomer to this group I wonder if you know what a rich resource our archives are and how effective the search function is. I can understand your excitement and desire to learn all you can about fountain pens but sometimes the best lessons are from information we uncover ourselves. Search this and other sites to identify models and rarity, use eBays sold prices to determine value. 

[Gdbbsjxk]

What pen is this? Since idk what to search if idk the model 

[corniche]

It's a Sheaffer school pen; typically for cartridge only use. I'd say this one is from the mid to late '60s. They originally sold for around $3; if it was in mint condition; i.e., NOS, it would be worth around $25-30. These pens sold in the hundreds of thousands throughout their lifespan. The Sheaffer School Pen was fairly popular; not only for students, but as a "kitchen drawer pen."

 

These pens had pretty decent nibs for their price level, back in their day. Of course, this one is clearly used and the nib may no longer be as nice as it once was.

 

OCArt raises a good point... none of us are born knowing anything; if pens are an avocation of yours... researching them for yourself can go a long way... sometimes you have to make "on the spot" decisions about a purchase and can't wait around for a group consensus at FPN.

 

- Sean

[Barry Gabay]

Hello Gdbbsjxk,

 

You have a very nice pen.  The clear green Sheaffer with rounded cap and barrel ends was my first pen in grade 3 when we students were required to have our own cartridge pens at school each day for handwriting practice. When my parents bought it for me in 1961, I believe it sold for 98 cents & came with 2 blue Skrip cartridges. It may have cost $1.98 rather than .98.  Your cap & barrel are from different generations. The 3 styles were roughly: 1960s- rounded ends, 70s-conical ends, 80s-flat ends.  There was also a late 1950s model with rounded ends which was not transparent. I do not remember seeing these in stores. Learned about them years later. 

 

Will attach photos below. Sorry for rotated second image. Hope you enjoy your great old pen. 

 

 

 

[mrcharlie]

One poster above called these a "School Pen". That is not the case; Sheaffer did have a pen model officially called the School Pen and this is not it. These were targeted at students and were frequently called student or school pens, but not officially by Sheaffer. There were a bunch of designs in the 1950s and 1960s that were simply called "cartridge pens" and had no real model name, unfortunately. This one is the most common. In the 1970s it was sometimes marketed as the "Economy Cartridge Pen"; I have some NIB examples with that packaging.

 

These pens were launched in 1955 using the name Skripsert for the Sheaffer cartridges and the pens they went in. The original model has the rounded ends and had opaque bodies with a softer type of plastic. I'm not sure what year started the transparent hard plastic bodies, but they lowered the price point a bit at that time.

 

On 4/2/2023 at 12:46 PM, Barry Gabay said:

When my parents bought it for me in 1961, I believe it sold for 98 cents & came with 2 blue Skrip cartridges. It may have cost $1.98 rather than .98. 

 

I have seen multiple 1960s ads with the pen and 2 carts for $1.00, and sometimes with "bonus" carts still for a dollar, or for $1.50. I believe your memory is correct.

 

On 4/2/2023 at 12:46 PM, Barry Gabay said:

Your cap & barrel are from different generations. The 3 styles were roughly: 1960s- rounded ends, 70s-conical ends, 80s-flat ends.

 

The rounded ends started in 1955 through at least 1960. The conical ended pens started sometime before Sheaffer was sold in 1968 (the conical ended pens come with both "Sheaffer'S" and "SHEAFFER" markings, ie pre-sale and post-sale) but I don't know the exact year. I think it was closer to the beginning of the 1960s than it was to 1968, but I don't know. Probably some serious Sheaffer collector our there has catalogs that would tell us, but I do not. The flat ends started in the early 1970s. I bought one in 1975 or 1976 and it was flat ended, so I am sure of this. They remained flat until production was ended ... I can't remember if it was in the 1990s or the 2000s, but I think the latter.

 

I have purchased flat ended pens NIB (new in blister-card pack) for less than the above quoted $25-30. I might even have a conical ends pen in package, and if so it cost me no more than $10. I usually buy lots of "beaters" for about $4-$5 per pen and clean them up, but I've purchased one or two clean excellent condition type lots that came to $7-$10 per; you can find them listed on ebay pretty frequently for $10-$20 per. Obviously you pay more for a clean, tested pen with matching parts than pens with dried ink inside, not cleaned or tested. The dirty lots often include some pens with sections that I can't get to flow no matter what, or caps with corrosion, or a chewed up inner cap, or lots of cracking in the body, as well as frankenpens (ie like the pen that started this item, with a rounded cap and conical body), and pens that clean up and look great, work great.

 

There is no loss of function with the frankenpen; the caps from all three generations fit on the bodies of all three, and the sections from any era will fit the bodies and caps of any era. The only thing that ever changed and wouldn't interchange was when the changed the width of the chrome? stainless? friction ring sometime during the flat end era. You need the body and friction ring to match each other, but they will still work with any era section or cap.

 

Also, all three eras came in both transparent and opaque bodies, with the opaque being a softer plastic and the transparent being a hard plastic.

 

Also, while these were meant to work with cartridges, they will also work with the "slim" cartridges, and with the old Sheaffer squeeze converter. They will not fit the more recent piston converter.

 

FWIW, the official "School Pen" model replaced this pen for however long it existed, no more than a few years.

[mrcharlie]

There is a newer plastic feed in the flat ends era pens. It is essentially the same design of the channels inside and they work basically the same in terms of ink flow and ease of cleaning and flushing, but the shape you see under the nib is a bit different.

 

The pens were sold with M and F nibs, but replacement nibs of different sizes were available. Early pens had nibs that read 304 and 305 for fine and medium, respectively, and later pens have 'F' and 'M' stamped on them. I have extra fine sections that say 'XF' from the plastic feed era and one that reads 302 from the early era. I've seen photos of one stamped 'I' for italic, but do not have one.

 

There are less common variants with more of a yellow metal cap instead of normal stainless steel, and at least in the rounded end era with a plastic body colored cap instead of a metal one.

[joss]

If we consider the three styles of Sheaffer cartridge pens that Barry Gabay shows I can add the following dates (fact checked from catalogs, advertisements, dealer sheets and stationary magazines) that might be helpful for dating the three versions, especially if you have pens in the original blister-card:

 

1955: the addendum of the 1955 Sheaffer catalog introduces the Sheaffer "Fineline" cartridge pen; pen has cigar-shaped cap and barrel top; open nib; slip chrome cap with chased lines; barrels are in solid plastic; the pen comes in a plastic box with either two cartridges ($2,95) or with a matching pencil plus 4 cartridges ($4,95); this new Sheaffer cartridge pen is also mentioned in July 1955 Financial World magazine so the introduction date can be set to mid 1955.

 

1960: Sheaffer's Review June 1960 introduces the version with a transparent (clear) or translucent (Red, Blue or Green) plastic barrel; this pen still has the cigar-shaped cap and barrel top and is available with fine or medium point; it is presented in a blister-card that includes two cartridges; cost is $1.00.

 

1963 or earlier: cap and barrel top become pointed/conical: this version is pictured in capped position (barrel top is not visible) in an undated Sheaffer brochure that must be earlier than 1964; this pen is named "Cartridge 100" and the cost is $1.00. The brochure is earlier than 1964 because it does not show the new Sheaffer ‘stylised S’ logo which appeared circa April 1964. The brochure shows a series of Imperial pens but does not mention the Imperial Lifetime that was introduced in 1^st Q 1963. So the brochure is possibly earlier than 1963.

 

1964: the stylised "S" is introduced as the new Sheaffer logo (announced in Office Products Dealer magazine, April 1964); The absence of this logo on a blister-card means that the card is earlier than 1964; the introduction of the new logo coincides with the gradual change of “SHEAFFER'S” to “SHEAFFER”

 

 

1966: Textron acquires the Sheaffer pen company in March 1966; the word "SHEAFFER'S" is by then completely abandoned and replaced by "SHEAFFER" in all publications and advertisements. So a blister-card that has the new logo plus “SHEAFFER’S” imprint (instead of SHEAFFER) can be dated to 1964-1966. A blister-card with the new logo plus "SHEAFFER" imprint is 1964-1969.

 

1969-1970: the stylised S logo is abandoned end of 1969 and replaced by the "white dot" logo; a blister with the white dot logo is 1970 or later.

 

 

I found the flat top version pictured in Sheaffer Times magazine, June 1976 but not in any other publication. So I can not add anything relevant for its introduction date.

 

[Sailor Kenshin]

One of these, a conical-type translucent yellow, was my first fountain pen.  Even at the time, I wanted the blue cart to be black.

 

I've since grown quite fond of these and have a small collection (a few of them Frankenpenned).  They all write very well; great for travel or ink testing.

 

But 'valuable?'  Not in monetary terms.

[mrcharlie]

On 4/25/2023 at 11:21 AM, joss said:

 

 

Thank you for all the information. I was told or more probably mis-remembered the sale date as 1968. Thanks for the real date. Also, I appreciate knowing that the economy/$1.00 version first was advertised in 1960 and the pointy ended version was on the market by 1963.

 

Also I'd always assumed that stylized S thing came with the sale to Textron; it is surprising and interesting to know it pre-dated Textron slightly.

[afishhunter]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:07 PM, mrcharlie said:

while these were meant to work with cartridges, they will also work with the "slim" cartridges, and with the old Sheaffer squeeze converter. They will not fit the more recent piston converter.

Thanks for that. 

The section looks identical to that of the early screw-cap No Nonsense Fountain pens.

 

Nice (but sad) to know the (much more available and affordable) piston fill converters won't work, before I wasted the money on a couple piston fill converters. 

 

[mrcharlie]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:52 PM, afishhunter said:

Thanks for that. 

The section looks identical to that of the early screw-cap No Nonsense Fountain pens.

 

It is very similar looking, but not the same size. I think the nibs and feeds might be the same but I haven't pulled them out of the section to be sure. The section of the NoNonsense is wider and the threads into the body are larger/different. NoNonsense section with a "standard" cart on the left; cartridge pen with a Sheaffer cart on the right.

 

 

On 5/17/2023 at 10:52 PM, afishhunter said:

Nice (but sad) to know the (much more available and affordable) piston fill converters won't work, before I wasted the money on a couple piston fill converters.

 

The piston converter will work in a NoNonsense pen, fwiw, but not in the student/economy cartridge pen. I literally just put one into a NoNonsense to confirm my memory before submitting this. I refill old Sheaffer carts with a blunt needle syringe for my economy cartridge pens.

 

[afishhunter]

On 5/30/2023 at 7:49 PM, mrcharlie said:

 

It is very similar looking, but not the same size. I think the nibs and feeds might be the same but I haven't pulled them out of the section to be sure. The section of the NoNonsense is wider and the threads into the body are larger/different. NoNonsense section with a "standard" cart on the left; cartridge pen with a Sheaffer cart on the right.

 

 

 

The piston converter will work in a NoNonsense pen, fwiw, but not in the student/economy cartridge pen. I literally just put one into a NoNonsense to confirm my memory before submitting this. I refill old Sheaffer carts with a blunt needle syringe for my economy cartridge pens.

 

Thanks or that. 

It is such a regal royal severe P.I.A. (not to mention fingers 🙄) to pull the nib/feed from the No Nonsense section. (not sure about the like student pens ... I never had one ... however, I will guess they are about the same "Did they glue these in?!?" ease to remove. 🤔)

 

Do you know if the No Nonsense feeds take a Number 5 or 5.5 or Number 6 nib?

It might be easier (faster?) to just get some spare Jinhao or FPR nibs for my three screw cap No Nonsense pens.

 

(Do FPR "Fex" nibs actually flex? I hae a Monteverde "Ultra Flex" nib. (came with a Monteverde pen along with a "fine" and "medium" nibs, in sections) It flexs as much as my vintage "Rigid". and "Firm" designed to make carbon copies Esterbrook nibs.)

At least the no-flex "Ultra Flex" nib is an "Extra Fine". 😁👍

 

I don't really care much for the later push-cap pens with foam padded sections ... especially those with the 🤬🤬🤬🤬 "ink window", so no "need" to switch out the stub nibs on those three.

[Barry Gabay]

Hello,  mrcharlie & afishhunter & others,  

 

Despite their sections being different sizes, the No Nonsense & Student Pen nibs & feeds are interchangeable. I have switched nibs and fees among some of mine. Removing the nib & feed from each is just a very tight pull, and re-insertion is not difficult either. Have photos showing switched nibs & feeds, but not able to access those at the moment. Can post them later if people are interested. 

 

Best wishes,

Barry

[kneekon]

I think I have the same pen that Barry posted in the picture example above - Sheaffer 1980's flat pen. I recall buying it in the late 80's and used it all through high school.

I bought the ink cartridge converter about 10 years ago, can someone confirm if my fountain pen uses the Schmidt K5 Universal Fountain Pen Ink Converter?

[mrcharlie]

On 8/8/2023 at 11:09 PM, kneekon said:

I bought the ink cartridge converter about 10 years ago, can someone confirm if my fountain pen uses the Schmidt K5 Universal Fountain Pen Ink Converter?

 

No, it does not. The universal std short cartridges will work because they are designed to have a flexible opening that squeezes down hard on the post once the ball is pushed out of the way, and even though the Sheaffer post is slightly smaller than the std one, it will still squeeze it tightly enough and hang on. However, most converters have a hard plastic opening that needs to be a tight friction fit, and the Sheaffer post is too thin. The K5 will slide right off. It looks like the mini converter you have has a more flexible plastic opening and perhaps that allows it to work in a Sheaffer? Or maybe you are asking about the K5 since what you have doesn't work? I've never had a std or std compatible converter that works in a Sheaffer.

 

I usually blunt syringe refill a Sheaffer cart for this model of pen, and the only converter I'm sure of that will work is a Sheaffer squeeze converter; the more recent piston converter won't fit in the barrel of this model.

[kneekon]

15 hours ago, mrcharlie said:

 

No, it does not. The universal std short cartridges will work because they are designed to have a flexible opening that squeezes down hard on the post once the ball is pushed out of the way, and even though the Sheaffer post is slightly smaller than the std one, it will still squeeze it tightly enough and hang on. However, most converters have a hard plastic opening that needs to be a tight friction fit, and the Sheaffer post is too thin. The K5 will slide right off. It looks like the mini converter you have has a more flexible plastic opening and perhaps that allows it to work in a Sheaffer? Or maybe you are asking about the K5 since what you have doesn't work? I've never had a std or std compatible converter that works in a Sheaffer.

 

I usually blunt syringe refill a Sheaffer cart for this model of pen, and the only converter I'm sure of that will work is a Sheaffer squeeze converter; the more recent piston converter won't fit in the barrel of this model.

Thanks for responding, you are right.

 

I did some research after my post and found that every ink converter cartridge does not fit the Sheaffer Student pen. They are either either too long or the aperture for the ink reservoir post is too wide.

 

The converter in my picture looks like a Monteverde piston converter but my one has a narrower ink reservoir post aperture than the standard Monteverde converter allowing it to fit snugly onto the post.

 

I do recall the Pen shop owner who found the correct converter for me mention that this one was quite unique, had I have known about this I would have purchased more converters. It's not the end of the world right now as there are work alternate solutions as you have mentioned.