Why are Pilot converters so trash

[AmandaW]

Oh and the Con-70s that came with a couple of C74s more recently I fill with a syringe... cos the big converters look so nice inside the transparent bodies I put up with them. LOL, but haven't ever bothered to fill the converters as intended. I just figure I don't get along with the Con-70.

 

Thanks for the link to the Goulet instruction video. I might try it properly some day. Maybe.

 

 

[dipper]

As an ex-engineer/product designer I am comfortable with the right of any company to manufacture products with any quirky designs that they wish, given compliance with any retail legal requirement to meet the intended purpose / safety etc.

If a product includes the need for the user to adopt a special technique then that is the free choice of the manufacturer.

 

Customers have their free choice also; The option to buy or not to buy.

I rather fancy buying a quirky Con70, for the novelty value alone. But then I also have fond memories of my ancient Renault car that looked like a dustbin tipped up on its nose and had a dashboard mounted gearstick in the shape of an umbrella handle. Normal ... it was not ... 😃😃😃.

 

Product improvement is a factor in good design and sound manufacturing practice, as in the release of a "new" version of the Con70. The unreasonable reaction of some customers is unavoidable though, as in ....

 

"I love you more and more every day."

"Oh right, so yesterday you didn't love me so much then ... !!!**!! You can take those **-/** chocolates and ...."

[Karmachanic]

Happy user of Con 20, 40 50. and 70.  They all perform perfectly. and hold the advertised amount.  The firm fit  of the  40/50/70 in the section is far superior to the standard Western converter, original Delta screw in aside, in my experience.

[inkstainedruth]

4 hours ago, dipper said:

"I love you more and more every day."

"Oh right, so yesterday you didn't love me so much then ... !!!**!! You can take those **-/** chocolates and ...."

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[AmandaW]

8 hours ago, dipper said:

The unreasonable reaction of some customers is unavoidable though, as in ....

 

"I love you more and more every day."

"Oh right, so yesterday you didn't love me so much then ... !!!**!! You can take those **-/** chocolates and ...."

There are real people on the receiving end of your comments. How hurtful is reasonable?

 

And you too Ruth. I expected better from you.

[dipper]

1 hour ago, AmandaW said:

How hurtful is reasonable?

No hurt was intended. But if anyone is feeling pain then I do apologise to you.

[Karmachanic]

8 hours ago, AmandaW said:

And you too Ruth. I expected better from you.

 

Oh dear.

[tzinc]

No it's a term of friendliness in Canada, bud.

 

I LOVE Pilot Pens: all of them it's my favourite company. One reason I like the 823 is because it takes in so much ink.

 

However, I find converters from other companies better. I also don't think I should have to buy syringes to get converters more full.

I can like a Car Brand overall but like the Steering Wheels of another brand better.

 

"It does what they wanted to do" is fine but it is also an excuse for not improving a product.

 

The VP is a favourite but for me it's whole handiness is undermined by how quickly it runs out of ink.

 

I write in my job and I write in my free time and I journal so maybe I write more than other people.

 

STILL this is my opinion change the converters so they take more ink, are easier to fill and clean, it is a very simple request. Please Pilot IMPROVE your wonderful products. Consumers have a right to make this request just as the have a right to not do it for money saving or whatever reasons. There is nothing wrong with wishing something was better and I am not the only who feels this way about Pilot converters. And honestly I think the whole double dip technique with Con-40s and even the syringe often is messy and seems like one extra step for me I can just imagine how much it would turn off some newbies. Makes it hard for me to recommend VPs to newbies because it really is an ideal newbie pen except for this.

 

[A Smug Dill]

19 minutes ago, tzinc said:

I also don't think I should have to buy syringes to get converters more full.

 

The point is that getting “more full” through normal, proper operation of the converter is neither a design goal nor a requirement of the product, as determined by the product's maker. There is no technical standard and no industry benchmark, that is recognised and adopted by a range of independent and non-cooperating fountain pen manufacturers — globally, or even just for a single country of origin — to prescribe functional and qualitative requirements of ink reservoirs with integrated filling mechanism. What one manufacturer does simply has no bearing on and no standing with any other manufacturer, to impose design requirements and constraints for products of the same category.

 

You're welcome to set your own assessment criteria, whether it's based on what you consider best-of-breed that you've come across, or simply a set of principles, guidelines, and/or measures you concoct from you own imagination. It is not incumbent on either product manufacturers, or fellow buyers and users as your peers and equals, to take notice or agree with them.

 

If you don't feel Pilot's converters, as designed, fit your personal requirements, then you're free to either not use any pen that are fitted with and must use Pilot's converters in the market, or design and construct your own (through 3D printing or whatever manufacturing method) to better suit your needs.

 

37 minutes ago, tzinc said:

"It does what they wanted to do" is fine but it is also an excuse for not improving a product.

 

Pilot decides what needs improvement, and what would benefit it to do and/or change; not the consumer. The company does not actually answer to you and me; all we can do is vote with our wallets, and exercise our prerogative to award, withhold, or withdraw our custom; that, however, gives us no leverage in terms of forcing companies to take notice and get more material satisfaction on our terms.

 

41 minutes ago, tzinc said:

STILL this is my opinion change the converters so they take more ink, are easier to fill and clean, it is a very simple request. Please Pilot IMPROVE your wonderful products. Consumers have a right to make this request just as the have a right to not do it for money saving or whatever reasons.

 

Then request it. Write to the company. And, as with all requests, it's then up to Pilot to acknowledge or ignore, accommodate or deny your request. You have a want, and if you have no particular power to make it happen, then try the ‘diplomatic’ approach, and let the parties with the means and/or the power decide; it's out of your (and my) hands.

[tzinc]

Of course companies do sometimes listen to consumers they make changes all the time based on feedback from consumers lol.

[inkstainedruth]

22 hours ago, AmandaW said:

There are real people on the receiving end of your comments. How hurtful is reasonable?

 

And you too Ruth. I expected better from you.

I thought the comment was funny/snarky, and reacted accordingly.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[inkstainedruth]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Then request it. Write to the company. And, as with all requests, it's then up to Pilot to acknowledge or ignore, accommodate or deny your request. You have a want, and if you have no particular power to make it happen, then try the ‘diplomatic’ approach, and let the parties with the means and/or the power decide; it's out of your (and my) hands.

Absolutely agree with ASD here.  But be prepared to not get a positive response for an answer, the way I did when I asked Pilot USA why they had all sorts of cool colors and finishes for Vanishing Points, but only HALF the (considerably smaller) range of colors of the Decimos were available in the US. 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

edited for typos

[ajoe]

As an aside, 2023 will be the 60th Anniversary of the VP. I have heard it described as one of the most successful FP models ever made.

 

I rather imagine that Pilot feels they are giving their customers exactly what they want.

[tzinc]

Yeah the VP is my favourite pen along with 823 but I never recommend it to newbies because of the converter issues.

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, tzinc said:

Yeah the VP is my favourite pen along with 823 but I never recommend it to newbies because of the converter issues.

 

Whereas I'm always happy to recommend the Pilot Capless to ‘new‘ fountain pen users, especially if they're asking for pen recommendations for use at work. These days you could even get Iroshizuku ink cartridges in a dozen different colours, in addition to Pilot's regular ink colours. ‘Newbies’ just want a pen that works well, and one that is of good product quality if they're paying $150, without being unduly concerned about ‘limiting’ factors that have little bearing on their primary use cases. Furthermore, they aren't the ones going to be complaining that cartridges aren't convenient enough to order in and have on hand (in one's handbag, briefcase, or backpack if the need for a backup ink supply is there), or that 0.4ml is too little ink for a proper refill if they choose to venture outside of Pilot's ink cartridge offerings.

[tzinc]

Great but not the person I know... after experience with a VP due to ink issues they dropped fountain pens all together they made a mess double filling and it didn't work they didn't want to carry cartridges around. Now I recommend Safaris.

[AmandaW]

I was serious. And trying to be helpful.

 

Hopefully this pic from 2020 will explain my disappointment with my Falcon SF. (I couldn't find it in my Gallery so uploading it again.) All these samples were written with only the pen's own weight - a touch as light as it gets - it's pretty easy to see which pen doesn't belong. In normal use... the SF gets even worse, not fine at all. I have no difficulty drawing or writing with even a synthetic squirrel brush, so I had no reason to think the fault was my control.

 

I had already bought the SEF (3 year gap, in which the SF had sat at the proverbial back of the drawer). I hadn't bothered to load the included Con-70 in the SEF- cos bubbles - just used the Pilot Black cartridge that also came with it. Looking at the pair of pens together after making this page made me think kinda 'scientific': let's make them the same - already the 'same ink' but not the same filling system. In goes a cartridge and the SF then worked perfectly and has done ever since. That stupid converter cost me 3 years use of the pen. And more expense getting the SEF. Whatever. (And, no, I won't sell the SEF, I'd lose even more doing so. I don't use it much, but that might change.)

 

The take away for a newbie. Unhappy with a pen with a converter? Try a cartridge.

 

[tzinc]

The only issue with cartridge is limited ink choice unless again you resort to syringes.

[Lithium466]

12 Iroshizuku colors (if you find them) and I think 8 regular colours, excluding the sets for calligraphy pens. Not too bad for cartridges! But noHere near the fun of all the available bottled inks.

 

I have mixed feelings about Iroshizuku cartridges, they could be a good way to try some inks without buying a bottle, but price wise don't make much sense (at least Japanese prices, not whatever importers are choosing to charge in other countries).

[inkstainedruth]

3 hours ago, tzinc said:

The only issue with cartridge is limited ink choice unless again you resort to syringes.

Or, of course, tossing them into the trash to add to a landfill.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth