Wancher why so inexpensive

[Frank Paiano]

Looking a Wancher pens but concerned regarding lower cost compared to Namiki urishi oens.

 

Any reason 

Thank you

[A Smug Dill]

35 minutes ago, Frank Paiano said:

Any reason

 

Not in the same league, perhaps?

[jandrese]

9 hours ago, Frank Paiano said:

Looking a Wancher pens but concerned regarding lower cost compared to Namiki urishi oens.

 

Any reason 

Thank you

If you appreciate and can afford Namiki that is the way to go. Wancher is another thing, a valid thing, but they ain’t a Namiki. 

[dftr]

Maybe if you look at it w a magnifying glass you see paint strokes w namiki?  I saw reviews of wancher pens that are very positive in general.  
with that said the nibs are different and so is the size shape. Of course you can get many options for color compared to namiki base black or red.  

 

I dont own a wancher. I think it does take a while to arrive. 
 

I suspect its the same as generic cereal vs the brand name. Most people wont notice difference except for packaging.   

[jandrese]

4 hours ago, dftr said:

Maybe if you look at it w a magnifying glass you see paint strokes w namiki?  I saw reviews of wancher pens that are very positive in general.  
with that said the nibs are different and so is the size shape. Of course you can get many options for color compared to namiki base black or red.  

 

I dont own a wancher. I think it does take a while to arrive. 
 

I suspect its the same as generic cereal vs the brand name. Most people wont notice difference except for packaging.   

Wancher and Namiki is the difference between Volkswagen and Bugatti. I own a bunch of pens from both companies. The VW Golf is an excellent car but it’s not a Bugatti Veyron and nobody would mistake the two.

[langere]

I agree.  I have both as well.  Wancher is okay, but Nakaya (or a Platinum Izumo) are just better in quality.  The build quality on my two Wancher are just not that good, given the prices.

 

Erick

[dftr]

I only have a Namiki and a Nakaya.  I have no issues w/ either one (the nakaya nib has more feedback so I don't always want to write w/ it).  I am surprised; I quickly rewatched reviews by Figboot and SBRown, they are very positive about the wancher.  I think there was one small visible defect found during a club meeting but it sure seems like you're getting a nice new pen for less than a used yuukari or nakaya?  

 

I would argue it's more a difference b/w volkswagon ex and Lx trim; if soemthing happened to my pens, I would consider a wancher?  can u share what you didn't like about the build?  or is it something in the urushi?  

[jandrese]

11 hours ago, dftr said:

I only have a Namiki and a Nakaya.  I have no issues w/ either one (the nakaya nib has more feedback so I don't always want to write w/ it).  I am surprised; I quickly rewatched reviews by Figboot and SBRown, they are very positive about the wancher.  I think there was one small visible defect found during a club meeting but it sure seems like you're getting a nice new pen for less than a used yuukari or nakaya?  

 

I would argue it's more a difference b/w volkswagon ex and Lx trim; if soemthing happened to my pens, I would consider a wancher?  can u share what you didn't like about the build?  or is it something in the urushi?  

It's not about not liking Wancher, they are generally fine for what they are. Namiki are just far better made from the ground up with superior to superlative urushi and maki-e by famous artists. Wancher are a budget pen urushi or not. They don't make or adjust their own nibs or feeds and the urushi quality is basic. Leagues apart. Miles. Namiki has been the leader in this space since the 1930's. Wancher is but a child in comparison. Wancher is not trying to be or beat Namiki, they would never claim that. Study more, go see the pens in person. Get on the FPN Facebook. See pics on IG. I have many good photos of both companies pens on my IG @revolvingpens. 

 

Which Namiki and Nakaya do you have? They are far more comparable to each other than to Wancher. 

[A Smug Dill]

11 minutes ago, jandrese said:

They don't make or adjust their own nibs

 

I thought Wancher makes its own mediocre gold nibs in-house? Only its steel nibs are sourced from Germany, as far as I know.

[jandrese]

55 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I thought Wancher makes its own mediocre gold nibs in-house? Only its steel nibs are sourced from Germany, as far as I know.

Yeah, that may be. I might even have one or two ha ha. I think the nibs are made by a partner local to Japan.

[cll]

For the price, wancher is decently nice.  However I did not enjoy the nib as much as I thought I would.  Their sales support is excellent though.

[lionelc]

having a spectrum of these urushi coated pens, the wancher ones are (relatively) inexpensive likely because of a lower build standard.  i find them great to use and the wancher nibs are serviceable, however, compared to a namiki - it's the little things that make the difference.  Like a rattle with the wancher cc fitting, a strip of felt in namiki caps up to the higher end stuff where an artisan matches up nashiji sprinkling size on the cap to match the pen clip.   

[A Smug Dill]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:04 AM, Frank Paiano said:

Looking a Wancher pens but concerned regarding lower cost compared to Namiki urishi oens.

 

Choose your personal priority as a purchaser, user, and/or collector of fountain pens. Is it the out-of-pocket expense on acquisition, the technical performance as a writing instrument, or resale value? If you want the ‘best’ balance of those factors, then instead of just being ‘concerned’, you need to formulate how you'd assess any retail offering against the criteria for what you personally see as the right balance.

 

There are no no-brainer bargains from Wancher to be had that other urushi pen aficionados and collectors have simply overlooked, thus leaving you to be one of the insightful early adopters getting in on a Good Thing before the manufacturer wises up and realises it can charge more and still be considered competitive. What do you really want, assuming you can't be ‘smartest’ or get the ‘best’ deal in the market, if you're going to spend money on Japanese urushi pens at all?

 

[dftr]

On 4/19/2022 at 8:34 AM, jandrese said:

 

Which Namiki and Nakaya do you have? They are far more comparable to each other than to Wancher. 

 

Well my Namiki's an eyedropper, but my Nakaya is what is now called a portable writer?  Obviously the Namiki is bigger and being an eyedropper looks more expensive and has the huge nib.  But when I hold each pen, I feel they are made as they should be.  I may need a magnifying glass to see the difference in urushi application because they both look great to me?  Both nibs were adjusted to my liking but as I said the Nakaya has more feedback.  Neither rattles; I don't need an ebonite feed as the plastic does the job perfectly, the clips feel secure, and I've been told I can cautiously post the caps of both pens if I really wanted.  I guess what I mean is that build wise I could be just as happy w/ the Nakaya as the Namiki.    If Nakaya made a larger Eyedropper, I may have happily gone for that instead. 

 

BTW, on your instagram, I notice many of your pens have beautiful artwork and decorations.  Obviously at that level there is a big difference and importance in the artist; also maybe it's an ascetic decision but I like how Namiki section threads are painted/coated red as opposed to some of the other high brands like DaniTrios and tacia.  It's a small detail but one that perhaps gives the nod to Namiki even though I think DaniTrio is more expensive.

 

  I confess I didn't see any Wancher pens on your page but there's so much candy there   

 

 

[MartinPauli]

There are several facts that make the price of a pen.

 

Large brands like Namiki have production cost, many suppliers, distributors and retailers and PR/Advertising that have to be calculate to get to the final retail price.

 

URUSHI

A cost difference is already in the Urushi. Urushi from China costs only 10% of Japanese Urushi.

 

URUSHI APPLICATION

In the Japanese industry urushi is also widely applied with a spray gun. Officially, a "Urushi Product" contains 10% Urushi and 90% Chemicals. Higher qualtiy "Double Urush" Products are made from 20% Urushi and 80% Chemicals

Applied by hand cost can be brought down by the numbers of layers

 

FOUNDATION

Another way to save costs production has already been used for many hundreds of years especially for export articles are the time-consuming work on the foundation is saved by applying pig's blood instead.

Applying the foundation takes a good week.

 

POLISHING

To avoid the time-consuming polishing work urushi is mixed with oil to reach the "same" result. Urushi mixed with oils is week and worn off quickly.

Note, the polishing process for a daily use product (from Dôzuri to Uwazuri) takes 10 days.

 

INDUSTRIALIZATION

You can find many patents in which ways are sought to simplify or shorten respectively industrialize urushi application. One patent from 1925 on "Methods of working upon surface of Ebonite", applied by Ryosuke Namiki.

 

LABOUR COST

Also worth knowing: In Japan, taxes, duties and labor costs are comparable to Switzerland. Japan is not a low-wage country

 

I would like to point out that I do not want to impute anything to anyone. Just take this as an information

 

[txomsy]

From the information in Wancher's web page, it does not seem that most of the caveats you listed apply. As I understand, they use local Japanese artisans, many of them with a significant curriculum, prices and experience, work is done in Wajima, Japan, using traditional techniques, not with machining, oil or spray tricks, over a long 3-6-month+ process, and I seem to remember they do also use Japanese urushi, not Chinese.

 

While your information is undeniable in "general, non-specific terms", specially for cheap mass-produced articles, it simply does not seem to apply in any way to Wancher, that I can see.

 

As for cost, one can get hand-made, traditional urushi craftmanship FPs made in Europe by local artisans at comparable prices, using similar techniques and materials, so implying the price is unrealistic for Japan simply seems to be untenable either.

 

I would rather expect that the difference in price is due to other factors like base-FP materials/components (wood, standard nib units, standard ebonite, etc...), number of urushi layers, reduced marketing, reduced production, long-term investment, maybe lower wages (there simply is likely not room enough for all urushi artists to work making FPs, so they must compromise if they want to work competing with larger brands), reduced market share (same, they need to create their niche), cooperative work, etc...

 

And I wouldn't be surprised if, once they succeed to secure a niche, they started rising prices.

 

But, saying "oh, there are bad guys and I'm not pointing to anyone" while not explicitly saying anything, carries implicit connotations and (to me) is not a good way to talk about others either. I know there are masters of the "I don't say anything but I have heard..." that have become terribly successful, but still, personally I feel inclined to think of that as arising out of desperation and lack of actual arguments. I know, not that this is the case, but that's how it makes me feel.

 

I do have some "Urushi" Kuretake brush fountain pens that, though they look gorgeous, at the price they had I think that I may reasonably assume they are more than likely to be not artisan made, on cheap "lacquer", with industrial techniques and all that.

 

But in all sincerity I do not think any of what you said can be applied to Wancher.

[MartinPauli]

As mentioned, it is no more then an information from the urushi industry in Japan. These are the factors that can be worked on