Is it for normal 146 and 149 to leak from grip section lip?

[saaduk]

Hi all,

 

I have a 146 and a 149. No matter how many times I clean the grip section lip with cotton  or tissue wet or dry, I will find ink again on the cotton bud if I touch with it again. Its not dripping or anything though. I have attached photo which shows an arrow that indicates the lip I am talking about. I gave the 149 for service and they changed the whole barrel and section but still the same. I can't take it back to them as warranty on repair is over and I am out of country. 

 

Is this Normal as both pens are acting the same? Please help me resolve this matter. 

 

Thank you 

 

[Recursion]

I have never encountered this with my 149. 

[SpecTP]

if you're overfilling.. yes.. ink will leak back out at that spot.

[saaduk]

9 minutes ago, SpecTP said:

if you're overfilling.. yes.. ink will leak back out at that spot.

Thank you for the reply. Please tell me why is that?. I normally drain back 6 drops of ink

[SpecTP]

24 minutes ago, saaduk said:

Thank you for the reply. Please tell me why is that?. I normally drain back 6 drops of ink

 

I usually see that symptom when I use wet inks and I overfill, ink saturates the feed and starts to accumulate at the base.

[bunnspecial]

Have you disassembled the pens yourself? How old are they?

 

From the introduction of the two piece barrels on these models up until a few years ago(don't know when exactly) the nib unit screwed into the barrel(the section sandwiched between these two pieces).

 

At least originally, this design had a pink sealant on the threads, sometimes called "bubblegum". You can buy it on Ebay as a two part mixture. There's been a fair bit of speculation that since this sealant is something of a proprietary Montblanc part, aside from sealing the threads, it lets them know if someone else has taken the pen apart.

 

If there is not sealant on these threads, the pen WILL leak at the place you've indicated eventually.

 

I have tried with silicon grease, and this is a temporary but not permanent fix(which is strange to me but that's what I've experience first hand).

 

Now, I use the non-hardening rosin-type Sheaffer formula that Ron Zorn sells. This is the same sealant I use on Parker Vacumatic sections, Parker 51 hoods, and any other place where I want a semi-permanent sealant. You should heat it a bit(it doesn't take much-it gets very liquidy around 120-130ªF) to apply it initially to the threads and I like to heat a bit when screwing the nib unit(or section or whatever back in) to be sure it seals well. Generally the section/whatever won't unscrew with your fingers once it has cooled, but a bit of heat will let you do it and a nib wrench will unscrew it with no trouble and no damage.

 

I have a 146 and 2 149s I've sealed with this sealant and they're leak free(one of the 149s is in my pocket now).

 

Note-this isn't needed on one piece barrels, which seal without sealant. I've not taken apart a recent pen(one with the wrench notches not exactly 180º apart) to know exactly how they seal other than being told they are different.

[nigelg]

Something similar happened to my 149. It started to leak from the same place. Eventually the small flared ring at the end of the section came off as you can see here. Not sure if it can be fixed either.

[saaduk]

On 2/23/2022 at 9:20 PM, bunnspecial said:

Have you disassembled the pens yourself? How old are they?

 

From the introduction of the two piece barrels on these models up until a few years ago(don't know when exactly) the nib unit screwed into the barrel(the section sandwiched between these two pieces).

 

At least originally, this design had a pink sealant on the threads, sometimes called "bubblegum". You can buy it on Ebay as a two part mixture. There's been a fair bit of speculation that since this sealant is something of a proprietary Montblanc part, aside from sealing the threads, it lets them know if someone else has taken the pen apart.

 

If there is not sealant on these threads, the pen WILL leak at the place you've indicated eventually.

 

I have tried with silicon grease, and this is a temporary but not permanent fix(which is strange to me but that's what I've experience first hand).

 

Now, I use the non-hardening rosin-type Sheaffer formula that Ron Zorn sells. This is the same sealant I use on Parker Vacumatic sections, Parker 51 hoods, and any other place where I want a semi-permanent sealant. You should heat it a bit(it doesn't take much-it gets very liquidy around 120-130ªF) to apply it initially to the threads and I like to heat a bit when screwing the nib unit(or section or whatever back in) to be sure it seals well. Generally the section/whatever won't unscrew with your fingers once it has cooled, but a bit of heat will let you do it and a nib wrench will unscrew it with no trouble and no damage.

 

I have a 146 and 2 149s I've sealed with this sealant and they're leak free(one of the 149s is in my pocket now).

 

Note-this isn't needed on one piece barrels, which seal without sealant. I've not taken apart a recent pen(one with the wrench notches not exactly 180º apart) to know exactly how they seal other than being told they are different.

 Thank you for the detailed reply Sir. The pens are not too old and the 149 was serviced in 2019. After servicing I noticed the slight leak on the 149, took back to the service centre but they failed to recognise. I didn't had time as I had flight and as they were not helping me out I left it. Now I have to find a cheaper way as tool plus sealant plus shipping will cost me alot of money and as these are two pens I think it's pretty disappointing the bad quality of montblanc. I'll request if you can help me with a easier available substitute for the sealant? Thank you once again 

[bunnspecial]

6 hours ago, saaduk said:

 Thank you for the detailed reply Sir. The pens are not too old and the 149 was serviced in 2019. After servicing I noticed the slight leak on the 149, took back to the service centre but they failed to recognise. I didn't had time as I had flight and as they were not helping me out I left it. Now I have to find a cheaper way as tool plus sealant plus shipping will cost me alot of money and as these are two pens I think it's pretty disappointing the bad quality of montblanc. I'll request if you can help me with a easier available substitute for the sealant? Thank you once again 

 

Wrenches are $30-50USD from US and German vendors. I have one of the "tweezer" types but keep meaning to get the proper one. I have seen some that are nib wrenches on one end and piston wrenches on the others.

For sealant-

 

I use this from Ron

 

https://www.mainstreetpens.com/stuff.htm

 

If you want the proper two part pink sealant, here it is on Ebay(no affiliation, but this seller is also a good source for other tools including nib and piston wrenches)

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124112816713?hash=item1ce5b34a49:g:0fUAAOSwXsBeZzWi

 

I've never had one of these pens leak when properly sealed unless there was another problem. We can debate the design merits of doing it this way(plenty of pens don't need sealant, including older and newer Montblancs) but this design requires it. Leaking after service indicates to me that whoever serviced it either wasn't aware of the need for sealant or didn't apply it properly.

[saaduk]

@bunnspecial

 

Thank for the detailed reply.

 

I have heard on the newer pens, no tool is required as there is no more sealant and it can be unscrewed just by twisting by hand? It was demonstrated in one of the videos on YouTube by a reviewer. Now the question is as they replaced the body on mine back in 2019, does it make mine new version too? How can I confirm. Thanks 

[Barry Gabay]

Hello saaduk,

 

The leaking you describe occasionally occurs on 149s and 146s with a two-piece barrel, those made since 1982. As several people have pointed out, the flaired collar needs to be re-sealed where it screws into the section.  It is very simple surgery if you have the proper tool and a good sealant. Sorry to hear that Montblanc did not service the leak as you requested. 

 

Good luck with your tools and sealant.

Best wishes,

Barry

[bunnspecial]

2 hours ago, saaduk said:

Now the question is as they replaced the body on mine back in 2019, does it make mine new version too? How can I confirm. Thanks 

 

I believe that the new version is indicated by the location of the notches for the nib wrench. To my knowledge, up until the new design(whether celluloid, one piece, or two piece) the notches on the nib collar were 180º apart. The new has them not exactly exactly spaced like that.

 

I haven't tried to see if the nib can be unscrewed by hand, but even if it can be, with the notches there my very strong preference is to use a wrench. The new plastic feeds are an excellent design, but the combs are VERY fine and can easily be bent with too much torque, plus you can also misalign the nib and feed.

[saaduk]

2 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

 

I believe that the new version is indicated by the location of the notches for the nib wrench. To my knowledge, up until the new design(whether celluloid, one piece, or two piece) the notches on the nib collar were 180º apart. The new has them not exactly exactly spaced like that.

 

I haven't tried to see if the nib can be unscrewed by hand, but even if it can be, with the notches there my very strong preference is to use a wrench. The new plastic feeds are an excellent design, but the combs are VERY fine and can easily be bent with too much torque, plus you can also misalign the nib and feed.

Need advice. I tried to open with my hands and guess what. I miss aligned the nib and comb but slowly placed it back. However the notches originally were at 3 and 9 o clock position and now is at 5 and 10. What could have gone wrong and how to undo it? Photo attached

 

Thanks 

[bunnspecial]

I don't consider the orientation of the notches with respect to the nib of overly great importance, however the original is the "default" orientation.

 

If it were me, I'd unscrew WITH A NIB WRENCH, knock out the nib/feed, and then reinstall with both the nib and feed aligned properly with each other and with the notches.

 

The notches are there for a reason. Use a wrench.

[Karmachanic]

29 minutes ago, saaduk said:

I tried to open with my hands and guess what. I miss aligned the nib and comb

 

Did you hold the barrel and unscrewed the nib?  Next time hold the nib and unscrew the barrel; less torque on the nib/feed.  Better yet, as above, use the appropriate wrench. 

 

Looks over tightened to me, as the notches should be at 4 and 8.  This could be another contributing factor for the nib/feed being out of alignment.

[stric75]

There were several good comments about removing the nib and you should follow them. 
The newer MB 146/149 models have self-sealing nib. It uses an O ring to create a seal and in theory it doesn’t  the require sealant. You should still use the tool that fits the notches that are at 4 and 8 (120 degrees apart). This newer design also has a flaw, not in the nib & feed part but in the lower section in which the nib screws in.

 

Namely, the lower section interior wall is  extremely thin and fragile, and it’s been reported more than once that use of improper tools can easily damage it and cause the leak you are experiencing. I’ve had the same problem with one of my MBs purchased on eBay but I returned it to the seller after discovering the leak.   
Montblanc could learn a thing or two from Pelikan. Pelikan M Series fountain pens have nibs that easily (un)screw and always seal. No tools are required. 

 

[Karmachanic]

4 hours ago, stric75 said:

Montblanc could learn a thing or two from Pelikan. Pelikan M Series fountain pens have nibs that easily (un)screw and always seal. No tools are required

 

Current production 149 and 146 do this.  No sealant required either.  Don't know what year this started.

[stric75]

12 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Current production 149 and 146 do this.  No sealant required either.  Don't know what year this started.

It must be a recent development, but it’s hard to say how recent. I’ve handled a Le Grand (146) FP recently and it had a self sealing nib & feed but it couldn’t be unscrewed by hand. It still required a nib removal tool that would fit in the notches that are 120 degrees apart.

[Karmachanic]

48 minutes ago, stric75 said:

120 degrees

 

Current models have 180º slots

[bunnspecial]

16 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Current models have 180º slots

 

I've had the nib out of both my 146C and 149 Italic Edge and I'm almost positive that they had 120º slots, although I did not find it necessary to use a wrench on either.

 

Note that the linked tool says 2014-2015.

 

Pentooling lists 1996-current for the 146 and 2013-current for the 149 for 120º(or 4:00 and 8:00 as they refer to it)

 

https://pentooling.com/toolsmontblanc.html