My first "Lucky Curve", well mostly

[KBeezie]

 

Gambled on getting this Pre-Duofold "Lucky Curve", as the images by the seller were quite horrible and hard to see what exactly the nib was and so forth.

 

It arrived with a WASP (W.A. Sheaffer Pen) green circuitboard cap which wasn't quite right on the fit as it would quickly tighten without a section install, risking cracking of the cap lip (and isn't a match to the brand even). Pulled a Challenger cap out of my parts drawer from a Challenger that still needs a nib and button, which threaded on good without issues.

 

I say 'mostly' because I don't have an original cap, and I suspect the nib is not original to the pen either saying "Parker Duofold" on the nib, and doesn't have that 'lucky curve' tail off the back of the feed.

 

The section is threaded to the barrel, and the pressure bar states "For Screw Section Pens" engraved on it. The barrel itself is rather translucent held up to the light and might make a good fit for a clear silicone sac instead of latex as sort of an 'ink view'.

[bunnspecial]

Nice, and forgive my Parker history, but I'm not entirely sure that could be called a Pre-Duofold.

 

Am I correct in that it's made of Celluloid? That pattern looks more like the Duofold Jade Green(maybe not exactly the same, but the same sort of "Feel"). What I think of as pre-Duofolds button fillers are made of hard rubber, sometimes chased and sometimes with overlays, but not elaborate celluloid patterns.

 

If that's the case, the presence of a Duofold nib does not surprise me in the least.

[KBeezie]

48 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

Nice, and forgive my Parker history, but I'm not entirely sure that could be called a Pre-Duofold.

 

Am I correct in that it's made of Celluloid? That pattern looks more like the Duofold Jade Green(maybe not exactly the same, but the same sort of "Feel"). What I think of as pre-Duofolds button fillers are made of hard rubber, sometimes chased and sometimes with overlays, but not elaborate celluloid patterns.

 

If that's the case, the presence of a Duofold nib does not surprise me in the least.

The Jade for Duofold didn't exist officially as a "Duofold" until 1927 or so (there were definitely some celluloid a little before then, Sheaffer had it before them).

 

Guess this is more or less pre-before-naming-it-Duofold since the Jade marked with just "Lucky Curve" would have been around 1925, and being "black tipped", 1926 before officially having the material show up on the Duofold line, but could been late as '28 with the barrel the way it is.  

 

So... Guess I have a Duofold Junior ('26-'28).

[KBeezie]

According to Nishimura and Dan Kirchheimer, it's not a Duofold pen, rather it's a "Jade Pen", Nishimura saying not to use the pre-duofold description. 

 

Dan :

Quote

 

For a time, Parker produced Jade Duofold-esque pens without the Duofold branding on the barrel prior to the promotion of that color to having full Duofold status (some pens bore Duofold-marked nibs); that's what you have. The feed is a replacement. Parker called it Black-tipped Jade, though collectors don't use that nomenclature. Jade pre-Duofold is probably well-understood.

 

Nishimura : 

Quote

 

"Jade Pen", I'd avoid the "pre-Duofold" as confusing, since the Jade Pens were introduced several years into the Duofold era.

 

 

For the purpose of fittings, it's basically a Duofold Junior in function, but it's just "Jade Pen" and not a Duofold. 

[joss]

yes, it may be confusing to just call them "pre-Duofold" although the full description "Jade pre-Duofold" would be correct too.

 

It's production period is very short. From the advertisements that I have available I deduce that the Jade green colour appeared in December 1926 (Canadian ad) - January 1927 (USA ad) and the pen was described as "Black-tipped Jade" and "just like Parker Duofold except for color". The first Jade green Duofold, with a full "Duofold" barrel imprint, is shown in a May 1927 advertisement.

Edited January 21, 2022 by joss

[crescentfiller]

Here's a couple of quick snaps of Jade Seniors showing the different imprints, including the Lucky Curve Black Tipped Jade and the later Jade Duofold (and one odd one, without Lucky Curve or Duofold). The Duofold has the correct Duofold nib while the others have the correct Lucky Curve nibs.

[joss]

I think that the barrel imprint of the 'odd' one (bottom pen in picture 2) is actually the earliest imprint of the non-Duofold Black Tipped Jade. It resembles the barrel imprint that is seen in the January 1927 advertisement.

[crescentfiller]

You're right, Joss. And in some of the advertisements, the nib is described as "the same jewel-smooth Parker Duofold point." This is odd because I believe they had Parker Lucky Curve imprints on the nibs. In the adverts, I think they even show a Lucky Curve nib. What's in your advert?

[joss]

20 hours ago, crescentfiller said:

And in some of the advertisements, the nib is described as "the same jewel-smooth Parker Duofold point."

 

Maybe that statement referred to the quality of the nib itself, rather than to the imprint?

 

In the Dec 1926 and May 1927 ad, the nibs on the Jade green have the Lucky Curve imprint. The May 1927 ad shows the first Jade green with "Duofold" barrel imprint but the nib still has a "Lucky Curve" imprint. All ads from July 1927 onwards show a "Duofold" imprint on both the barrel and the nib of the Jade green.

 

I am aware that advertisements may give only a rough idea on the chronology of certain changes in style but nevertheless it is remarkable that fine details on the pen artworks were definitely being modified month upon month.

[crescentfiller]

Joss, Thanks for checking your ads. The results are as I thought, but the wording from the ad I looked at is definitely ambiguous and I couldn't see what was written on the nib from the online photo.

[FlighterGuy]

Posted this last month in on another thread.

 

In September 1926 there was "and in larger sizes Mottled Green".  In October 1926 there was Blacked-tipped Jade "... like the famous Duofold pens."  NOTE: in that ad the Pastel colors are now Mauve, Magenta, Naples Blue, Coral or Beige Gray with the Blacked-tipped Jade pen/pencil shown separately at the bottom.  Still not yet a Duofold but no longer a Pastel.

 

In the 1927 Catalog Apple Green was added to the Pastel line.  And Blacked-tipped Jade was added to the Duofold line.  Now the model numbers for the Blacked-tipped Jade Duofold pens are #102/#103/#107 and the pencils are #172/#173/#177.  Which just happens to be the same model numbers of the Mottled Green Pastel pens/pencils and totally supports Duofold brand name protection discussion.  This was probably a good decision because of the variation in color in the earlier pens. By May 1927, one third of Duofolds sold were Jade and the color was more consistent. 

 

[FlighterGuy]

On 1/24/2022 at 12:29 PM, crescentfiller said:

Here's a couple of quick snaps of Jade Seniors showing the different imprints, including the Lucky Curve Black Tipped Jade and the later Jade Duofold (and one odd one, without Lucky Curve or Duofold). The Duofold has the correct Duofold nib while the others have the correct Lucky Curve nibs.

You have an example of each of the early green pens.  The Pastel Mottled Green in the middle, the Black Tipped Jade on the left and the 1927 Senior on the right.  If I remember correctly, these are the only pens that have a Duofold Senior size nib with a Lucky Curve imprint.

[crescentfiller]

1 hour ago, FlighterGuy said:

You have an example of each of the early green pens.  The Pastel Mottled Green in the middle, the Black Tipped Jade on the left and the 1927 Senior on the right.  If I remember correctly, these are the only pens that have a Duofold Senior size nib with a Lucky Curve imprint.

 

The one at the top, with the Duofold Lucky Curve imprint, has a nib marked Duofold. The other two are marked Lucky Curve.

[KBeezie]

I have two-band cap inbound , which if I recall is for he slightly newer "Duofold Junior" but will fit my "Jade Pen" and look more consistent at least. 

[crescentfiller]

8 hours ago, KBeezie said:

I have two-band cap inbound , which if I recall is for he slightly newer "Duofold Junior" but will fit my "Jade Pen" and look more consistent at least. 

 

That's great! And yes, they went bandless (not Jade), raised single band, flat single band, and then two flat narrow bands. And, if you are a poster, you'll be pleased, as Duofolds generally post very well without much risk of breakage. 

[KBeezie]

13 hours ago, crescentfiller said:

 

That's great! And yes, they went bandless (not Jade), raised single band, flat single band, and then two flat narrow bands. And, if you are a poster, you'll be pleased, as Duofolds generally post very well without much risk of breakage. 

Edit : there are two sizes of challengers, the cap that fits the Jade pen is the smaller version. So... This is a ladies size?

 

 

 

The one on the left was the Challenger.

[crescentfiller]

"Edit : there are two sizes of challengers, the cap that fits the Jade pen is the smaller version. So... This is a ladies size?"

 

Are you saying you ordered a Jr cap for a Ladies/Ringtop barrel? From your posts I understood you to have said you identified your barrel as a Junior.

 

[KBeezie]

23 minutes ago, crescentfiller said:

"Edit : there are two sizes of challengers, the cap that fits the Jade pen is the smaller version. So... This is a ladies size?"

 

Are you saying you ordered a Jr cap for a Ladies/Ringtop barrel? From your posts I understood you to have said you identified your barrel as a Junior.

 

I was basing it off Ron Z telling me it was a Junior Size because I showed that a challenger cap fit. But it was the smaller of the two Challengers that exist. 

[FlighterGuy]

Well, so now you need a ladies Jade ringtop cap and Lucky Curve Christmas tree feed.  You could also get a correct nib for it because it's not a Senior, those are hard to come by!  It likely will have to be a Duofold cap since almost all of the pre-Duofold Jade pens I have/had/seen are Seniors.  But, just in case you actually find one, start buying lotto tickets and checking the ends of rainbows. 🙂

[KBeezie]

2 hours ago, FlighterGuy said:

Well, so now you need a ladies Jade ringtop cap and Lucky Curve Christmas tree feed.  You could also get a correct nib for it because it's not a Senior, those are hard to come by!  It likely will have to be a Duofold cap since almost all of the pre-Duofold Jade pens I have/had/seen are Seniors.  But, just in case you actually find one, start buying lotto tickets and checking the ends of rainbows. 🙂

The guy I got the cap from would do a straight exchange for cost of shipping, he found a cap, and put a black end cap and clip on it (I prefer clips even if it's not authentic to the model, but neither is the feed/nib anyways). 

 

At least the nib he sent for the challenger has a bit of a light semi-flex feel to it (wasn't expecting that compared to the nail of my thicker challenger). The green cap is back on the Challenger since I just restored it with the nib and button he sent along with that cap.