small, tiny, short, minimal-length caps

[A Smug Dill]

On 12/5/2021 at 4:20 AM, agaric said:

I see. A few other less-expensive snap caps like Plumix …

 

Are you sure?

(Product image sourced from Pilot Pen's US web site; markup in magenta is mine.)

 

[agaric]

8 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Are you sure?

Oh oops! my mistake. The Shark also is a screw style. I clearly don't have these pens and need to try them 😛

 

10 hours ago, gerigo said:

Can you identify these? ... the first one not identified is ...

Wut, you knew the names all along? Hmph, I don't appreciate that all that much... as much as I enjoyed looking them up. That first one in the second batch certainly looks interesting though.

[gerigo]

Agaric, apologies. I thought you wanted to see pens with minimal caps. I personally love pens with more unusual designs so pens with very short caps, often those that just cover the nib are also designs that interest me. A lot of these pens aren't the ones that people usually talk about so I thought it'd add an interesting spin. 

 

[Sailor Kenshin]

The Jinhao Sharks are fun.  Good writers for the money, and they also come with fude nibs.

[agaric]

2 hours ago, gerigo said:

thought it'd add an interesting spin

Ah ok, I guess it can be an interesting discussion tactic. And the puzzle was never posed specifically to me, so I'm sorry for taking it personally.

 

But I totally relate to the sentiment that these designs are awesome, so please keep 'em coming. Any experiences with your smallcaps, maybe regarding functionality or ergonomics, that you can share?

[Sailor Kenshin]

The Papermate DJ requires a surprisingnlot of force to remove.  The Rötring Skynn posts nicely.

[Bo Bo Olson]

19 hours ago, agaric said:

why MacKinnon and Cross quickly switched to a longcapped shape.

You are right.

I'd not noticed that the stylographic pen in my 1902 Sears replica catalog had a cap that was longer.... up to 1/4th the size of the 60 cent pen.

 

Most of the capped fountain pens of that era were similar caps 1/4th long instead of the 1/3 long of modern pans.

 

In the days of gold money there was no real inflation; so I can go 1/2 more to double Sears prices to price something in a store.

It is seldom I get exact prices in the west with high freight costs.

Much of that clutter will be cut; but it does give me an idea of how much a dollar was really worth back in the old West.

[Licue]

- Heiko Trend

- Markant 801

- Diplomat Balance

- this Diplomat 

- this Senator 

- Pelikan th.INK

- BIC fountain pen (easy-click as well as the previous version)

- ONLINE Tango

 

Btw, I disagree that small caps simplify uncapping. Imo it's the opposite: they make it more difficult due to there being way material to grab onto.

 

I think their advantage is mainly that you can post them without changig weight/balance/length too much. (not always tho)

[Arkanabar]

The issue I can foresee is the same one that the Nemosine Singularity had.  A short cap will screw onto the section.  This can lead to unscrewing the section when you try to unscrew the cap.

[A Smug Dill]

3 hours ago, Arkanabar said:

The issue I can foresee is the same one that the Nemosine Singularity had.  A short cap will screw onto the section.  This can lead to unscrewing the section when you try to unscrew the cap.

 

That would not happen with the Pilot Plumix at all, and specifically because its short cap screws onto the section. To remove the cap, you would typically hold onto the long gripping section — and not the barrel — with one hand and the cap with the other to unscrew, and so there is no way at all that the barrel will end up being unscrewed instead from the gripping section.

 

I'm pretty sure that @agaric would be expecting at least part of the gripping section — long enough to hold onto with one's fingertips — to remain always exposed, when a pen with such a short cap is capped. It is only a problem on the Nemosine Singularity because its gripping section is not exposed when the pen is capped, and the user ends up trying to gain purchase by grabbing hold of the barrel instead.

[jchch1950]

Stipula Iris.

[agaric]

22 hours ago, Licue said:

more difficult due to there being way material to grab onto

Yes, I'm noticing a bunch of small caps that almost look intentionally difficult to grip/pull. Maybe it's to reduce production cost, but such designs are baffling and blood-boiling.

 

Other ones look very functional however. They add appendages or use grippable shapes/patterns/materials. The only such pen I own is the Spoke Axle S and the grooves on its cylindrical cap and section work very well for un/capping.

 

Thanks for the examples. That Senator one, though, looks to be a bit of an imposter 😛 And I cannot find images of the Heiko Trend.

 

20 hours ago, Arkanabar said:

lead to unscrewing the section when you try to unscrew the cap

16 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

at least part of the gripping section ... always exposed

 

Completely agree with ASmugDill (and couldn't have explained it better myself). As further illustration, all the plastic, less-expensive, screwcap examples mentioned so far are structured this way. They have a cap portion, a middle (gripping) portion, and a barrel portion, each joined together with basically no overlap.

 

But there are a few curious exceptions.

• The A Cuig mentioned earlier has a teeny tiny metallic intermediary part (technically the "section"?), with threads on either end for attaching to barrel and cap. And the cap overlaps this thing when capped. I imagine the Singularity issue would apply here (but hopefully they did something to mitigate it). In fact, since the cap overlaps the section, I hesitate in calling the A Cuig a SMALLCAP.
• Another curiosity is the Montparnasse, also mentioned earlier. I have no idea how the threading system works there.
• Then there are pens that have the section exposed but the section is relatively short. The only examples I see are the Eboya Kobue and the capillaris. I guess the issue could appear with these, but only if the user is unfamiliar with the pen or not paying attention.

 

1 hour ago, jchch1950 said:

Stipula Iris

Cool, a retractable with a small removable cap!

[agaric]

I saw that the link to the Eboya Kobue (mentioned on the first page) is 404, so am including an image here. The pen is too beautiful to be forgetten; hope Eboya won't mind.

 

[K Singh]

3 hours ago, agaric said:

I saw that the link to the Eboya Kobue (mentioned on the first page) is 404, so am including an image here.

The link worked when I shared it here. Can't edit the post now, so thanks for sharing the image here 👍  I love this design.

[Licue]

4 hours ago, agaric said:

Thanks for the examples. That Senator one, though, looks to be a bit of an imposter 😛 

??

Are you saying it imitates/copies another pen? Which?

 

 

4 hours ago, agaric said:

And I cannot find images of the Heiko Trend.

Adding "füller" to the search might help.

Or try this link: https://m.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/ddr-trend-schreibgarnitur-fueller-heiko-2-teilig/1933731387-234-4167

Linking pics is somewhat difficult as most that I could find are from auctions, which are not always active anymore.  

Btw: I just realized that the Trend was also called the Heiko P804 and I actually have this one, albeit in kinda bad condition and without the original packaging.

😶

[agaric]

1 hour ago, K Singh said:

link worked when I shared it

Yep, I guess it got sold or something. The general shape doesn't seem too uncommon (Namisu Orion, for example), but the Kobue looks so clean.

 

32 minutes ago, Licue said:

Are you saying it imitates/copies another pen?

Oh I meant it in the sense that it pretends to be a short cap when it is actually long and covers the section. Doesn't it? I might be mistaken. When capped, the black part of the cap almost looks like the section hidden under it.

 

Thanks for the Heiko link. Reminds me of the CP1. Also love how the clip ends right where the cap ends.

[Licue]

37 minutes ago, agaric said:

Oh I meant it in the sense that it pretends to be a short cap when it is actually long and covers the section. Doesn't it? I might be mistaken. When capped, the black part of the cap almost looks like the section hidden under it.

 

Thanks for the Heiko link. Reminds me of the CP1. Also love how the clip ends right where the cap ends.

Yeah, the Trend's design actually isn't bad, I think. It's a rather low end pen tho. Its black plastic feels very light and the nib seems kinda cheap.

 

 

As for the Senator: As far as I can tell, the cap fully covers the section. But the section is very short. 

Also the cap is shorter than the clip, which is of ordinary length - if not a bit on the short side itself.

Therefor I'd still consider it a small cap.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Not to think all Senator pens are small/short capped...I've only seen the regular capped ones.

This one cost me a pound of coffee and a 1/2 hours drive there and back  a few months ago. A '70's pen. Ink too.

Also for the same pound of coffee I got this.

A rather rare ink now. I do have an old  black and brass Uhu pen also.

Uhu was and still is a major German glue company. It was a second/third tier pen, a bit better than expected.

[K Singh]

10 hours ago, agaric said:

Namisu Orion, for example

Didn't know about this pen. Thanks.

[agaric]

On 1/10/2022 at 7:58 AM, Sailor Kenshin said:

Papermate DJ ... Surprisingly good writers

Jinhao Sharks are fun

Rötring Skynn posts nicely

The cheaper options seem really interesting, especially when they include some neat quirk or nib option. I particularly had my eye on the Pilot Pluminix. But alas, I made a promise in another thread to buy no more pens, honor et fidelitas 🛡️

 

21 hours ago, Licue said:

Therefor I'd still consider it a small cap

Aha, makes sense.