Seeking recommendations for modern Japanese workhorse

[airstairesc]

On 8/8/2021 at 12:18 AM, A Smug Dill said:

It writes with the feel of a 4H pencil, I suppose.

 

 

Huh? That's news to me.

 

 

 

How much do you write in Chinese? How small (or large) is your handwriting, and how densely do you pack the glyphs on the page? 🤔

 

Edit:

Ah, I found what I was looking for, and what I know I've seen posted on FPN before.

Notwithstanding that the ink's and feed's ‘wetness’, and also the individual user's writing speed, can make a difference in ink consumption per unit distance (e.g. metre) of writing with a particular pen and nib, it's still more useful to specify in distance instead of words/pages/hours/days of writing one full fill (or ink cartridge) will support.

 

See also this old discussion thread:

 

 

Thanks for these links. Very helpful!

 

 

On 8/8/2021 at 3:57 PM, lianali007 said:

Huh? I can syringe fill my Con-40 just fine. The rattling doesn't bother me much. I've been switching out inks a lot to try and find one I really like, but I've been getting at least 4 or so pages of A5 writing out of the pilot falcon SEF nib. Mine seems to be a wet writer, since it puts out enough ink to show sheen from Organic Studios and does some mild shading. The line is too fine for pastel inks, which makes me kind of sad.

 

The needle gauge of my syringe is too large, so good to know I'll need a finer tip if I end up with a Con-40 pen.

[airstairesc]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:48 AM, mke said:

@airstairesc

> I have ruled out the Pilot Custom 823 because of the cracking issues and it being a demonstrator.

 

Not every 823 has cracking issues. Mine has none.

Let Hiroko from Bokumondoh add a new design to it and the demonstrator "problem" has gone away.

 

Or how about a Namiki Emperor Urushi? No cracking issues, no demonstrator.

 

The Namiki Emperor Urushi is a beautiful work of art, and more than I want to spend for a work-related pen.

 

I am still drawn in by the 823's ink capacity and filling system. Demonstrators aren't really my thing, but they are cool and fun to look at. I just know how distracting it would be for me to see the ink in the chamber. Instead of working, I'll be holding the pen up to the light to watch the ink move around.

[airstairesc]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:43 AM, Ste_S said:

@airstairesc If you want a Japanese fine, but wet pen with a large ink capacity, and isn't a demonstrater, it kinda feels like you're going to need to spend up a bit (a lot) to one of the ebonite eye-droppers; and then send it to get the nib adjusted (most Japanese fines tend to the dry side).

 

Yeah, I'm coming to see that my requirements will make for a costly Japanese pen. I may have to just carry ink and refill as I go. If all else fails, I will probably send my Lamy 2000 to a nibmeister and have it ground to EF and adjusted to be drier.

[airstairesc]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:59 PM, Sailor Kenshin said:

I have a few Sailors, but my Platinum 3776 (M) has never been de-inked since I bought it a few years ago.  I keep refilling the cartridge,

 

I have watched many reviews of the Platinum 3776 and with a Fine nib it might get me a decent amount of ink mileage. What ink/s do you like with your 3776?

[A Smug Dill]

6 minutes ago, airstairesc said:

The Namiki Emperor Urushi is a beautiful work of art, and more than I want to spend for a work-related pen.  …‹snip›… Instead of working, I'll be holding the pen up to the light to watch the ink move around.

 

It's for work, so why do you need it to write with “good flow” — which a lot of hobbyists would (mistakenly?) presume you mean “wet” — and why do you anticipate using that one ”workhorse” pen with large ink capacity with “all sorts of ink”? Just pick the one ink (or two inks) you're going to use, even if it's iron-gall (which indicates a gold nib would be preferable) or pigment (for which a removable ink reservoir that lends itself to be disassembled and deep-cleaned, and/or can be replaced readily and relatively cheaply, would be preferable) ink, and stick with that for the use case/application.

 

8 minutes ago, airstairesc said:

I may have to just carry ink and refill as I go.

 

A pen that writes with pigment/carbon black ink does not need to write wetly to leave perfectly legible, lightfast and water-resistant words on the page, so a pen with “low” or ”stingy” ink flow would still be OK, as long as it's not so constrained that it exhibits symptoms of ink starvation, cause broken lines to appear in words, etc.

 

[A Smug Dill]

58 minutes ago, airstairesc said:

Thanks for these links. Very helpful!

 

24 minutes ago, airstairesc said:

I have watched many reviews of the Platinum 3776 and with a Fine nib it might get me a decent amount of ink mileage.

 

Never mind what other users (e.g. reviewers on YouTube) show you. The chart, which was published by none other than Platinum the pen manufacturer itself in the first place, states that a (Platinum) Fine nib should yield approximately 500 meters of ink lines, or 16.000 ‘words’ — which I presume to mean a mix of kana characters or kanji ideograms — before fully depleting a single factory-filled (i.e. ‘standard’) Platinum Black ink cartridge, when the pen is held at a 60° angle to the page and used with downward pressure of 50g.

 

That may be a lot of parameters to take in and/or with which to align, but even if the individual reader/user does not write at that angle or press on the nib with the stated pressure, they could still compare and/or calibrate (e.g. an M nib would yield roughly 20% less writing than an F nib from a predetermined volume of ink).

[airstairesc]

4 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

It's for work, so why do you need it to write with “good flow” — which a lot of hobbyists would (mistakenly?) presume you mean “wet” — and why do you anticipate using that one ”workhorse” pen with large ink capacity with “all sorts of ink”? Just pick the one ink (or two inks) you're going to use, even if it's iron-gall (which indicates a gold nib would be preferable) or pigment (for which a removable ink reservoir that lends itself to be disassembled and deep-cleaned, and/or can be replaced readily and relatively cheaply, would be preferable) ink, and stick with that for the use case/application.

 

 

A pen that writes with pigment/carbon black ink does not need to write wetly to leave perfectly legible, lightfast and water-resistant words on the page, so a pen with “low” or ”stingy” ink flow would still be OK, as long as it's not so constrained that it exhibits symptoms of ink starvation, cause broken lines to appear in words, etc.

 

 

Sorry for not being clear. My original post was describing a potential pen that would have qualities I like to have in a pen, in general. Something I could use with a wide range of inks, once I'm done using it for work. Replies to this thread and further research have shifted some things that were in my original post.

 

As for "good flow" I suppose I mean a nib that is middle of the road. Writes well, medium ink flow. I will be writing on copy paper (mostly), Atoma paper, and Rhodia.

[A Smug Dill]

2 minutes ago, airstairesc said:

As for "good flow" I suppose I mean a nib that is middle of the road. Writes well, medium ink flow. I will be writing on copy paper (mostly), Atoma paper, and Rhodia.

 

I personally have six Platinum #3776 pens with 14K gold Fine nibs in my fleet, not counting either my wife's, or the stash of ‘new’ (i.e. bought brand new and never inked since coming into my possession) pens I have sitting in drawer. (Three has been ‘retired’ or set aside; I might sell them, or I might not, but I'm not really expecting to use them again.)

 

I haven't come across any flow issues with any of them to cause ink lines to be broken, or writing to be too faint to be legible or too wet to the point of ‘flooding’ the page and cause feathering and/or bleed-through that otherwise shouldn't happen.

 

Whether you like the feel/feedback from those nibs, or how a Platinum #3776 Century feels in your hand, is a different matter. I don't mind the nibs at all, but I think the ‘hand-feel’ of the translucent plastics used in the entry-level #3776 Century models aren't as good as that on Sailor and Pilot pens at roughly the same price point; nor am I overly fond of the small step-down from the barrel on #3776 Century pens, although that isn't a showstopper for me.

[airstairesc]

4 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I personally have six Platinum #3776 pens with 14K gold Fine nibs in my fleet, not counting either my wife's, or the stash of ‘new’ (i.e. bought brand new and never inked since coming into my possession) pens I have sitting in drawer. (Three has been ‘retired’ or set aside; I might sell them, or I might not, but I'm not really expecting to use them again.)

 

I haven't come across any flow issues with any of them to cause ink lines to be broken, or writing to be too faint to be legible or too wet to the point of ‘flooding’ the page and cause feathering and/or bleed-through that otherwise shouldn't happen.

 

Whether you like the feel/feedback from those nibs, or how a Platinum #3776 Century feels in your hand, is a different matter. I don't mind the nibs at all, but I think the ‘hand-feel’ of the translucent plastics used in the entry-level #3776 Century models aren't as good as that on Sailor and Pilot pens at roughly the same price point; nor am I overly fond of the small step-down from the barrel on #3776 Century pens, although that isn't a showstopper for me.

 

It sounds like the kind of flow I'm looking for. Can I assume all six of your pens wrote straight out of the box? Your comment that the Platinum nib wrote like a 4H pencil is really helpful.

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, airstairesc said:

Can I assume all six of your pens wrote straight out of the box?

 

Yes; none of them have required any tuning, smoothing, aligning the tines, etc.

 

I just pulled my three Platinum #3776 Century Kanazawa-haku pens out from my pen display box earlier, after not having written with them in at least six weeks, and they all wrote straight away upon being uncapped. (All three pens were filled on 29/9/2020, according to my log book.)

 

To me, that is the single best feature/characteristic of the Platinum #3776 Century pens; but, if you're using one as a ‘workhorse’ daily, then it won't matter much.

 

[mke]

@airstairesc

> Can I assume all six of your pens wrote straight out of the box?

> after not having written with them in at least six weeks, and they all wrote straight away upon being uncapped

 

This is something which Japanese (newer, not vintage) pens are famous for.

 

The black smokey demonstrator of the 823 should not be called demonstrator, you need a backlight to see the ink.

 

[Sailor Kenshin]

12 hours ago, airstairesc said:

 

I have watched many reviews of the Platinum 3776 and with a Fine nib it might get me a decent amount of ink mileage. What ink/s do you like with your 3776?

 

Oddly enough, I didn't like it at all with the included Platinum Black cartridge. Now I just mix inks to match the burgundy barrel color.  Some of them are MB Shakespeare or Corn Poppy Red.

[Helen350]

I use Diamine Syrah for the burgundy and a blue Diamine, deAtramentis,

Iroshizuku, Noodler's or Dryden Designs (when inspired to remove them

from their pen case).  I don't store them for extended periods of time with

ink remaining in the cartridge.  I do reuse the cartridge, so it has been a

long time since purchasing replacements.

[lascosas]

During the last week I alternated between my Pilot 823 & Wing Sung 699.  Both smoky brown, both fine nibs, both filled with Diamine Poincettia.  At less than 10% of the price, the 699 is a perfectly acceptable pen is you want to experiment with what the 823 feels like.  Inferior nib of course, but they are not that different.

[amk]

3776 I tend to use with Waterman and Pelikan inks which are fairly wet. I find the combination of wet ink and fine nibs works well - some Herbin inks can be very scratchy.

 

I've never consciously tracked how long a fill lasts but put it this way, it's a while!

[airstairesc]

To everyone:

 

Thanks to all for contributing to this thread. I ended up going with a Platinum 3776 with a fine nib with Platinum Blue-Black, then Sailor Souboku. The converter held almost enough ink for a day's worth of writing. The copy paper definitely soaked up more ink than FP-friendly paper, but I was just thrilled not to see feathering. It did require some regular flossing since it had so much contact with cheap copy paper.

 

The 3776 is a fantastic pen! I really like the nib. After constant use for the last six months I'm interested to go even finer next time around. It's amazing how accustomed one gets to fine, then finer, nibs. I'm looking forward to trying UEF nibs in the future, both Platinum and Sailor.

 

Anyway, thanks again & happy writing to all.

[airstairesc]

On 8/16/2021 at 3:48 PM, lascosas said:

During the last week I alternated between my Pilot 823 & Wing Sung 699.  Both smoky brown, both fine nibs, both filled with Diamine Poincettia.  At less than 10% of the price, the 699 is a perfectly acceptable pen is you want to experiment with what the 823 feels like.  Inferior nib of course, but they are not that different.

 

Thank you, this is an interesting option!

[airstairesc]

On 8/12/2021 at 4:23 PM, Sailor Kenshin said:

 

Oddly enough, I didn't like it at all with the included Platinum Black cartridge. Now I just mix inks to match the burgundy barrel color.  Some of them are MB Shakespeare or Corn Poppy Red.

 

I just flushed the 3776 yesterday after six months of Sailor Souboku and popped in a Platinum Carbon Black cartridge. I really like how de-saturated Carbon Black looks coming through this nib, and the feel of the ink is really nice. It looks, feels, and sounds like liquid pencil or something.

 

On 8/13/2021 at 12:10 PM, Helen350 said:

I use Diamine Syrah for the burgundy and a blue Diamine, deAtramentis,

Iroshizuku, Noodler's or Dryden Designs (when inspired to remove them

from their pen case).  I don't store them for extended periods of time with

ink remaining in the cartridge.  I do reuse the cartridge, so it has been a

long time since purchasing replacements.

 

If I ever stop using this pen, I might leave the Platinum Carbon Black cartridge in to test out the slip & seal cap.

 

Which Iroshizuku ink do you use in your 3776? Also, which papers do you use Iroshizuku with?

 

On 8/23/2021 at 4:53 AM, amk said:

3776 I tend to use with Waterman and Pelikan inks which are fairly wet. I find the combination of wet ink and fine nibs works well - some Herbin inks can be very scratchy.

 

I've never consciously tracked how long a fill lasts but put it this way, it's a while!

 

The copy paper I was using definitely pulled out more ink, but I'm still impressed by how long a fill goes. Now that I'm using the pen for my personal use on good paper I will keep a closer eye on it.

[mke]

On 2/27/2022 at 6:28 AM, airstairesc said:

UEF nibs in the future, both Platinum and Sailor

Sailor has no UEF, just EF.

With such fine nibs, you need to choose well your ink otherwise your writing becomes faint. 

[Gunkanes]

8 hours ago, mke said:

Sailor has no UEF, just EF.

With such fine nibs, you need to choose well your ink otherwise your writing becomes faint. 

 

My Sailor Extrafine is already in the limit, i would not suggest a finer writing point with the Sailor 21k. With such a fine nib, the ink is barely appreciated (Diamine Blue).

 

I didn't like the 3776 UltraExtrafine and sold it. 

 

The Sailor King of Pen M has an outstanding EF in reverse writing.