Fountain pen for cheap/ordinary paper

[Henrik_FP]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering if any of you have a favourite FP to use on 'ordinary'/cheap paper that minimises bleed through. I am mostly taking everyday notes with my fountain pen and would not like to use high-quality paper all the time due to the costs involved.

I have seen a lot of discussion about what type of ink to use on cheap paper, but I have found that with the same ink, there are significant differences between fountain pens. Of course, the finer the nib, the less bleed-through on average, but then I have a Leonardo EF pen that just bleeds-through right to the next page.

My top pick so far is a ST Dupont Défi (fine nib) - it has a very smooth application of the ink and there is virtually no bleed-through even on the cheapest paper I have. It is overall a great pen - no skipping, no hard starts, and possibly the finest steel nib I have used so far (there is a lot of feedback, though, and the nib is quite stiff if you do not like that). However, I find the shape of the pen unpleasant and not suitable for longer-writing sessions. Unfortunately, this precise nib only appears to be used on the Défi, which is why I cannot just get a different FP with this nib/swap the nib to a different body (I have other ST Dupont FPs and they tend to bleed through a lot).

 

My top contender to the Défi so far is the Waterman Carène (fine nib), but I do get somewhat more bleed-through than with the Défi. This one also comes in EF, but it is hard to get my hands on. I would consider importing it if someone else has any positive experiences with the Carène in EF.

 

Let me know your experiences! What are your favourite FPs to go for when writing with ordinary paper and still getting a lot of bleed through even with a suitable ink?

Thanks!

[ENIAC]

Those F and EF nibs may be putting too many PSI on the paper and forcing ink into the fibers.  That would be less-likely with a M or B.  Also watch out for even minor tine misalignments at the writing tip, because that can cause abrasion that (again) will scrape the paper and force ink into the fibers.

 

I believe one must accept that there's lots of paper out there that simply won't work with a fountain pen without bleed-through, no matter what you do.

 

May I add that it's not just a question of bleed-through.  There's also the concern about loading up the nib slit with cheap-paper fibers after a while and then having to get all that (bleep) out of there, especially if it's mixed with the sizing that was used in manufacturing the paper.  I've seen that stuff turn to glue after a while.  What a mess.

 

tldr: Watch what you write on.  Could turn out to be what's known as a "false economy."

[Bristol24]

I'm not certain that the brand or type of pen matters much at all.  It is mostly the flow characteristics of the specific pen combined with the characteristics of the ink being employed.  I have a Hereo 616 that loves Parker Quink Permanent Black.  Together they write very well even on 20lb. bargain basement papers.  I have a 1951 Parker 51 that also does well with well behaved inks on the cheapest of papers yet I have 2 Waterman's that I would never use on a cheap paper because their flow is too free, even with dry inks.  Trial and experimentation are the answer to your question, I believe.

 

Cliff

[alexwi]

I'd say Lamy's Safari's are rather forgiving pens when it comes to paper. Especially M and thinner, as I've found them to be dryer than any pen I own (black ink tends to look dark grey with mine).

 

Alex

[A Smug Dill]

10 hours ago, Henrik_FP said:

Let me know your experiences! What are your favourite FPs to go for when writing with ordinary paper and still getting a lot of bleed through even with a suitable ink?

 

Most of my EF-nibbed Japanese fountain pens behave admirably in that regard (and others, too) out-of-the-box.

 

I find Paperblanks 100gsm journal paper to be particular sensitive to ‘wetness’ of ink marks and exhibits (minor) bleed-through readily, albeit with no feathering. I amateurishly reground and tuned the F nibs on my three Wing Sung 699 pens (specifically assigned for journalling) to be both narrower and drier, so that the paper can cope.

 

I haven't tried one of those myself, but I'd imagine your best bet — if you don't want to be fiddling with the nibs and feeds yourself — would be a Pilot pen in the Custom line that is fitted with a PO (‘Posting’) nib. The nib was designed specifically for writing on ‘bad’ paper.

 

I certainly wouldn't be looking at European pens and brands for a solution to the problem, if I'm only going to have one or two pens for that task.

[Mech-for-i]

Most Chinese and Japanese F, FM would suite the bill, EF am not so sure , they can be too sensitive with the paper surface. That stated, you should probably check which ink to be used. Some ink just do not behave well regarding and some just work wonder.

[Karmachanic]

Dry nib + dry ink.

[jchch1950]

8 hours ago, alexwi said:

I'd say Lamy's Safari's are rather forgiving pens when it comes to paper. Especially M and thinner, as I've found them to be dryer than any pen I own (black ink tends to look dark grey with mine).

 

Alex

I agree with the Lamy Safari . They write on every paper that I use.Also the Pelikan Stola 111 has a good performance with cartridges . Maybe the most important is the combination of pen and ink.😏

[antarmukhee]

I routinely use inexpensive notebooks for regular writing and note-taking. I use F and M nibs. I experience bleed-through only in pens with very wet nibs. It is not the brand of pen that counts I think.

[sandy101]

I've found the Parker 51 to work well, and Platinum's pens seem to work well enough when loaded with Platinum's own inks.

 

Parker's Quink and Platinum's inks work well on cheaper papers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gyasko]

Why?

 

Money spent on pens is wasted without decent paper to go with them.   Your pens will not perform optimally until they have better paper.

[sandy101]

As a teacher I have to mark students' work. I do not get to choose the paper they use - so it is useful to use a pen that can work on different papers. 

 

[gyasko]

13 minutes ago, sandy101 said:

As a teacher I have to mark students' work. I do not get to choose the paper they use - so it is useful to use a pen that can work on different papers. 

 

 

I do that too, but that’s a different situation.

 

The question was about a pen for note taking on cheap paper.  That doesn’t have to happen.  Even IPG nib pens are happier on better paper.

[7is]

I think that finding a right ink could save you money. I use two extremely wet writing pens and with right inks they work perfectly well on cheap paper with minimal or no bleed-through.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Bleed Through A Lot.....get a dryer ink....get better paper.

Ghosting or echo might be alright but Not Bleed through.

What paper are you using so we can all avoid it like the plague.

What inks?????

 

Are you using Ink Jet Paper?...It is The Feather Champ....

 

I'm willing to pay $3.00's more for 90g paper that don't go in the printer. (Didn't use too, but I decided not to screw around with 80g, no shading papers., In I don't print out reams of the stuff, so I went over to 90-100g.)

 

But if you are forced to use such paper....look for a butter smooth nib.

Suggest a Pelikan 600 it has a fat and blobby butter smooth semi-nail nib....great balance and adequate girth. Light and nimble. .

Will glide right over poor paper.

 

Later, when you have better papers, you can put a good classic steel springy regular flex 200's nib on it. It is better and writes with a nice clean line, and even later a '50-65 semi-flex....when you have better paper of course.

The steel or gold plated 200's and the '82-97 gold nibs are =....and you can afford many more nib sizes for your 600 if you buy a selection of the great 200's nibs....when you buy some good papers.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width/flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

 

If the poor paper is in the office it can't be helped.

 

I suggest for every three inks you buy, you buy a ream of good to better paper or a 100 sheet box of better paper.

If you are using cheap paper at home....shame on you, for not letting your inks dance....inks dance only on good to better paper.

 

If you list what nation you live in, we can point out good US or Euro papers.

Do try some Pelikan 4001 inks they are the driest so shouldn't bleed through.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arkanabar]

I do most of my writing on salvaged cheep cheep laser paper -- 88 brightness, 20lb Georgia Pacific letter only sold at Walmart.

 

Asian pens with F or XF nibs, yo.  Exemplars:  Platinum Plaisir/ Preppy with a 0.3mm nib (same nib unit; Plaisir has anodized aluminum body, Preppy has clear plastic).  Hero 616.  Jinhao 51A XF.  I have an FPR Darjeeling with an F stock nib that works pretty well on salvage paper.

[Henrik_FP]

Thank you so much everyone for your replies!! There have been so many useful pieces of advice - I am glad I joined this community. Particularly, the advice pointing to specific Japanese nib designs are a very useful hint! I'll need to explore. I have a Pilot 823, but it is a medium nib (and tends to make a mess with cheap paper) - as I originally wrote, the two most promising pens for cheap paper I have available are the Dupont Defi (f) and the Waterman Carene (f). I am using the Pilot blue ink that came with the 823 as well as a Pelikan 4001 royal blue (which was suggested by some and it works quite well with the Dupont).

 

On 7/10/2021 at 3:54 AM, sandy101 said:

As a teacher I have to mark students' work. I do not get to choose the paper they use - so it is useful to use a pen that can work on different papers. 

 

Sandy101's issue also applies to me - I did not mention this in the original post, but I also have to grade student papers and doing that with a comfortable fountain pen (which just does not bleed right through to the next page on the cheap university exam paper) makes the entire activity just so much more enjoyable!

 

I do sympathise with all the people emphasising the importance of good paper and I hear you! I have a stack of Rhodia, Clairefontaine, and some Japanese paper and I do appreciate what a nice experience these are! But apart from grading, I am also sometimes in a situation where I just want to develop a quick idea on a piece of paper (without making an immediate mess). When I expect to throw the paper into the garbage quite soon, it would be a shame to use expensive paper. Any other suggestions/comments, would be happy to hear more experiences!

[Bo Bo Olson]

For the price of a beer or two you can upgrade you throw away paper....in I do scribble and toss, sooner or later. So it comes down to being cheap in the wrong place.............because Ink don't dance on cheap paper.

It don't shade on 80g unless Rhodia. You need 90g laser.

I did it all wrong, first the pens, then the inks and finally got some good to better papers.

 

How can you enjoy your 64 crayon box of inks, when you know your cheap paper will not shade or show sheen?

Cheap paper will not give you a nice clean line....if the pen is up to it.....and many modern pens are not; to fat and blobby.

 

If one is only going to use dirt cheap paper, then only Pelikan 4001 and Lamy inks. Because there is no excuse for using expensive inks on poor paper. It's a real waste of money.

 

 Herbin has joined the jumped ink prices. You do have to have good paper for those inks to shade....for any ink....outside of perhaps Apache Sunset.

R&K inks are still affordable, and quite good.

 

 

 

 

[sandy101]

10 hours ago, Henrik_FP said:

, I am also sometimes in a situation where I just want to develop a quick idea on a piece of paper (without making an immediate mess). When I expect to throw the paper into the garbage quite soon, it would be a shame to use expensive paper. Any other suggestions/comments, would be happy to hear more experiences!

 

Pencils are great for developing quick ideas (and for lots of heavy duty marking).

 

There's some theories about (that I have read, but can't remember where) that we are often more creative with a pencil in our hands. Certainly I find with students getting them to write something in pencil gets them thinking more. Because pencil is not permanent, they don't see their ideas in quite the same way as using pen. Certainly I use large sheets of A3 paper and pencil when starting out on  big projects. The "blue skies stuff" goes down in pencil, the tidying up afterwards goes in pen. 

 

Sometimes I find it easier to have a bunch of sharpened (1b or 2b) pencils on hand when marking - when one gets blunt, I just move onto the next. HB pencils don't show up enough, and ink can smudge if you are writing too fast.  

 

 

 

 

  

[sirgilbert357]

The ink you use can matter just as much as the nib...

 

Inks that don't seem to bleed or feather very much for me are Noodler's Black and Pelikan 4001 Black. A Pilot or Sailor with a fine nib running those inks should be able to write on almost anything without issues. I could write on newspaper without issues using Noodler's Black...