Pen skips when you write fast?

[Spatil]

I didn't find anything similar elsewhere and I am pretty much a beginner so decided to ask here. The thing is whenever I write a sentence say, "the quick brown fox...." in fast handwriting I find that my pens sometimes skip during the start of new word like in "the", "lazy" etc. during upstroke of the letters t and l (I write in cursive). The part where you start from the base line till the topmost point of the first letter has the ink missing, but after that when you trace the nib downwards, the ink starts flowing and there is no skipping for rest of the word. It is more problematic when I continuously write more sentences, thereafter I even find 2-3 skipping in one sentence. The flow should not be an issue here as the pens are not dry writers ( pilot MR in M nib, one with Schmidt #5 F nib, last with Indian kanwrite #6 nib in M with ebonite feed). I have checked on 3 different papers with Waterman (serenity and inspired blue) inks and pilot black ink, and it does happens more or less. I generally don't write in such a fast handwriting but sometimes I do need to write fast and I assume that such a thing should not happen with fountain pens as it didn't occur to me with gel pens or ball point pens. Though in general writing it is an exception and mostly occurs when testing the fps in fast writing, do correct me if it is natural or if fps are not designed for this. If not, it would be appreciated if someone can point out the reason.

[silverlifter]

I tend to write fast, really scrawl, as well. I only ever see this when the tines are slightly out of alignment. Break out the loupe and take a good look.

[A Smug Dill]

I also think it's either a tine misalignment issue, or the angle and orientation at which you hold the pen (thus how the tipping touches the page), if where the skipping happens is on the initial entrance stroke, therefore not a case of the ink flow through the feed not keeping up with consumption rate due to fast writing.

[Spatil]

12 minutes ago, silverlifter said:

I tend to write fast, really scrawl, as well. I only ever see this when the tines are slightly out of alignment. Break out the loupe and take a good look.

This does not seem to be the case. The fps don't have any scratchiness and write well.

[silverlifter]

2 minutes ago, Spatil said:

This does not seem to be the case. The fps don't have any scratchiness and write well.

 

Well, they don't write well enough to keep up with your cursive, and an aligned nib should. All of mine do. But suit yourself; if you aren't willing to at least rule out the hypothesis, I'm not sure why you are asking for suggestions.

[Spatil]

7 minutes ago, silverlifter said:

 

Well, they don't write well enough to keep up with your cursive, and an aligned nin should. All of mine do. But suit yourself; if you aren't willing to at least rule out the hypothesis, I'm not sure why you are asking for suggestions.

I didn't see any misalignment under magnification so I replied that. Could angle/ orientation of holding pen temporarily affect nib alignment while writing due to elasticity of metal? Maybe, not sure... that I don't have enough practice and loose proper orientation when writing fast here and there subconsciously, as I would be more focused on what I am writing which be affecting the ink flow between nib and paper?

[gyasko]

You need more ink flow to the nib, simple as that.  The pen isn’t delivering enough ink to the tip to keep up with you.  

 

Being a fast writer, too, i run into the same problem.  You’re going to be happier with pens with generous flow.  Broader nibs and/or ebonite feeds help, too.   In the meantime, you can adjust the nib for greater flow.

[Karmachanic]

Before adjusting the nib for greater flow, make sure you are holding the nib square to the page. Rotation could be a contributing factor.

[Spatil]

28 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

Before adjusting the nib for greater flow, make sure you are holding the nib square to the page. Rotation could be a contributing factor.

Could ink also be a factor here, because I am mostly having this issue with Waterman inks. I just wrote 10-15 sentences and some strokes with each ink in one of my pen and had skipping with Waterman inks only while pilot ink had no problem. While rotation may be reason, the performance difference between Waterman ink and pilot ink bugs me.

[Karmachanic]

35 minutes ago, Spatil said:

Could ink also be a factor here

 

I have no experience of Waterman inks, but in theory yes, if it is drier ink. That in conjuction with rotation could explain the difference between the drier (?) Waterman and wetter Iro ink, in that a wetter ink may give one slightly wider margin of error.

[silverlifter]

6 hours ago, gyasko said:

You need more ink flow to the nib, simple as that.  The pen isn’t delivering enough ink to the tip to keep up with you.  

 

Except this is happening with the first stroke of the first letter. So it isn't an issue with flow.

[gyasko]

40 minutes ago, silverlifter said:

 

Except this is happening with the first stroke of the first letter. So it isn't an issue with flow.

 

 

Disagree.  It’s skipping on the upstroke part of the first letters, which is a symptom of inadequate flow.

[silverlifter]

10 hours ago, gyasko said:

Disagree.  It’s skipping on the upstroke part of the first letters, which is a symptom of inadequate flow.

 

Not always. And, likely, not in this case.

[Bristol24]

I'm not so certain that this is a pen issue. Spatil refers to pens having this problem, not a pen.  This does not rule out flow issues but the fact that Spatil is new to fountain pens could indicate rotational and hold angle issues.  In business I've taken to carrying a ballpoint in my portfolio because I find that most people unaccustomed to fountain pens tend to hold a pen near vertical when writing.  Even my best Parker 51s have problems with that.  It might be good to look into proper hold and orientation and rule that out before considering flow to be an issue.  As an afterthought, I chased down an article by Richard Binder on proper hold and orientation: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/ttp/sweetspot.htm

[Spatil]

16 hours ago, Bristol24 said:

I'm not so certain that this is a pen issue. Spatil refers to pens having this problem, not a pen.  This does not rule out flow issues but the fact that Spatil is new to fountain pens could indicate rotational and hold angle issues.  In business I've taken to carrying a ballpoint in my portfolio because I find that most people unaccustomed to fountain pens tend to hold a pen near vertical when writing.  Even my best Parker 51s have problems with that.  It might be good to look into proper hold and orientation and rule that out before considering flow to be an issue.  As an afterthought, I chased down an article by Richard Binder on proper hold and orientation: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/ttp/sweetspot.htm

Thanks, it was helpful. 

One more thing that I found is that when I swap the original nib(F) in one of my pen(ebonite feed) to a spare nib(EF,M,B) from same nib manufacturer, it seems the flow between feed and nib is not as good as the original nib and has inconsistent flow more or less depending on which nib and ink I put in the pen (worst case of all my pen/nib + ink combination). Angle/rotation issue aside where I need practice, can nib swapping be a hit and miss thing or something need to be done for it as well, especially if it's an ebonite feed? And yes, I didn't find misalignment in them either.

[Karmachanic]

2 hours ago, Spatil said:

One more thing that I found is that when I swap the original nib

 

Are these screw-in units; housing and feed?  Frequent swapping of friction fit nibs is not reccommended.  Over time the inner wall of the section will wear, so that the nib/feeds no longer fit properly.  Additionally with each change the relationship of the nib and feed changes, which is less that  ideal.

 

For friction fit pens, best to set up the pen and leave it alone. In this case, individual pens for each nib size is the better solution.

[Bristol24]

I learned early on that it is possible to over-tinker with a nib and feed.  As pointed out earlier, changing  a friction fit nib more than just a few times ultimately ruins the friction fit.  Thinking back to when I was a "newbie," I cannot help but remember that many (not all) of my difficulties with skips and false starts were the product of something I did or was doing.  Hold, angle, and orientation are vital components as much as tine alignment, tip contour, slit taper, and nib to feed contact.  Again, Richard Binder's site is a virtual fountain pen university.  One cannot go wrong reading what he has to say.

[Spatil]

2 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Are these screw-in units; housing and feed?  Frequent swapping of friction fit nibs is not reccommended.  Over time the inner wall of the section will wear, so that the nib/feeds no longer fit properly.  Additionally with each change the relationship of the nib and feed changes, which is less that  ideal.

 

For friction fit pens, best to set up the pen and leave it alone. In this case, individual pens for each nib size is the better solution.

Yes, that pen has friction fit ebonite nib. I bought spare nibs to try different point sizes but it didn't go very well. After reading your and Bristol24's post I have placed the original 'F' nib back into the pen which is working much better than swapped nibs and would keep it so. And I am also assuming that removing nib and feed for cleaning purpose would also be unnecessary therefore should be avoided to prevent wearing of inner section.

[Spatil]

Anyway, thanks to all of you for the feedback. I learnt some new things which can help me deal with my problem.

[Spatil]

Well, I suddenly decided I should conclude what I understood from this post.

I divided the problem in two parts.

1) Angle/orientation (minor reason)

    This problem has diminished since I got my first pen, but is still there and particularly occurs more when writing fast since I don't have the leisure to focus on my pen holding when doing so which causes occasional skipping. Certain inks can help in this by giving wider margin for error like my pilot ink gives better experience than Waterman ink.

2) Swapping/tinkering with friction fit feed (major reason)

Swapping different nibs with friction fit feed is not good (atleast in my case) as it causes problem with nib and feed setting. Actually when I post this problem I had swapped 'M' point spare nib in my recently bought third pen and it was having the above mentioned problem while still bleeding in the paper where my other pen and ink did not bleed which lead me to post on the forum. Later I also tried 'EF' and 'B' point which were even worse. The 'EF' particularly was unusable as it skipped even when writing slowing while 'B' was also no good and didn't even bother to check flex 'F' nib. I replaced the original 'F' point nib back into the pen and it is working very well so I decided to let it be and not venture in tinkering zone.

 

This should be enough to explain why I was having problem.