Disadvantages of Waterman Ink

[theodore94]

I've been experimenting a bit with the ink that I use. I like black ink, and I've been using Waterman Intense Black ink for years now. But I figured I'd try something new -- Pelikan konigsblau -- and I've been enjoying it, so I'm thinking of getting a few more inks to spice up my writing.

 

I was hoping someone might tell me why they prefer to have a bunch of brands of inks. I've been looking online, and Waterman ink appears to have a good variety of colors (black, blue, green, red) and is very inexpensive ($10 on Amazon, compared with $15-40). Further, because it comes from a trusted brand, I don't have to worry what pens I put it in -- I (supposedly) can put it in my 1910s Waterman 514 or my 2018 Waterman Carene. Are there disadvantages to Waterman compared with other ink brands? I'm sure this is a basic question... but I've been using just one type of ink my entire collecting life since last week (=

 

Thanks!

[LizEF]

The only possible "disadvantage" (though I don't think that's the right word) is lack of variety - in colors, in saturation, in lubrication, in flow, in sheen, in glitter (presence, color, concentration), in bottle shape and size (for those who care).  I like Audacious Red and Inspired Blue, but the rest of their colors do nothing for me.  I want a yellower brown, a murkier green, a blacker blue-black, and a more unusual (probably greener) blue.  Waterman don't offer those colors.  Diamine and Robert Oster, on the other hand, have more inks in more shades than you can shake a writing stick at.  And Sailor probably does too, when you throw in all the ink they make for other folk.  Throw in all the other brands and you've got lots of interesting stuff that Waterman doesn't come close to.

[LizEF]

27 minutes ago, theodore94 said:

I (supposedly) can put it in my 1910s Waterman 514

You always want to err on the safe side when deciding what to put in vintage pens.

[theodore94]

Thanks @LizEF! When you say "the safe side", I thought that Waterman was the safe option.... is that not true?

[I-am-not-really-here]

Waterman has the basics but lacks orange, pink, yellow, and violet.  And as LizEF mentions, there is no hue variety.  

[Newton Pens]

Waterman is awesome.  One of my favorites by FAR.  But yeah, not a lot of colors to pick from.    And yes, it's the safe option to put in whatever pen you want without worry.  

[LizEF]

8 minutes ago, theodore94 said:

Thanks @LizEF! When you say "the safe side", I thought that Waterman was the safe option.... is that not true?

Yes, Waterman has a reputation of being (one of?) the safest ink brand(s) out there.

[LizEF]

7 minutes ago, I-am-not-really-here said:

violet

If you mean that as a separate hue from purple, you're right.  But they do have a purple.  I didn't mention my purple preferences because purple ink hasn't appealed to me in a very long time.  No idea why not.

[LizEF]

8 minutes ago, I-am-not-really-here said:

pink

Oh, and they do have pink - Radiant Pink - but for some reason, it's only available in cartridges (as far as I can tell).  But yeah, no yellows, oranges, and only one of each color.

[I-am-not-really-here]

Just now, LizEF said:

If you mean that as a separate hue from purple, you're right.  But they do have a purple.  I didn't mention my purple preferences because purple ink hasn't appealed to me in a very long time.  No idea why not.

Yes, separate from purple.  For violet, I prefer Sheaffer Skrip.  
 

[I-am-not-really-here]

Just now, LizEF said:

Oh, and they do have pink - Radiant Pink - but for some reason, it's only available in cartridges (as far as I can tell).  But yeah, no yellows, oranges, and only one of each color.

Yeah I don't count that.  And they did have orange and pink and violet too, in bottles, back in the '40s but long dropped.

[sansenri]

although sticking to a reliable brand may be usually wise, don't always expect all inks from a same brand to behave in the same way or to be equally reliable.

What makes the difference are the chemicals used and often a different dye can change the ink behavior and reliability dramatically.

 

It is much wiser to define reliable inks by colour

 

Waterman Serenity blue is a highly safe/reliable ink (so is Pelikan Royal blue - 4001, i.e. konigsblau)

 

[arcfide]

I wouldn't feel at all obligated to use different inks just because that's what is popular. Waterman inks are how they are today and have been around as long as they have and have the reputation that they have for good reason: they are very solid inks. They've been around long enough as well that they can be manufactured very affordably. Really, the only fundamentally practical thing that Waterman doesn't offer from a purely technical standpoint is a high degree of waterproofness, but even there, that need is often overblown, and Intense Black is certainly capable of earning at least a little bit of respect in this arena. 

 

Waterman doesn't get as much attention as the other inks because it is so well known, so reliable, and so "canonical" that it's no longer exciting and novel and interesting. It may be a standard by which other inks can be judged, but that's also what makes it less desirable. A lot of people want something different just because it's different and that appeals to people in various ways. Variety of colors is probably the biggest factor, but differences in flow, saturation, dry time, sheen, shading, and the like could all push someone to look for something other than Waterman inks. 

 

I do think that Waterman gets *underrated* in some respects as to how competently well done their inks are in terms of their colors (their blue and black and blue black inks especially are a lot more subtle and interesting than people sometimes give them credit for). I think because they are the "affordable standard" of inks that's ultra safe, sometimes they get dismissed as surely not being interesting, but depending on your needs, the colors are quite good and interesting in their own right. That still doesn't mean you might not want a different color from what Waterman offers, or something that writes drier. 

[TSherbs]

Waterman

Pelikan

Diamine

 

These ink manufacturers all know how to make safe, reliable inks, and have been doing so for decades. Diamine makes hundreds.

 

I find Waterman Blue the most boring of royal blue inks. I have a bottle, but I will not replace it when it is gone. It has low saturation, and it dries to a lighter shade than my 4001 Konigsblau. If you like that, fine. But I don't. It looks too washed out to me, but opinions on this vary.

[sansenri]

a wide range of available blue inks like Konigsblau, Serenity, MB royal blue, Aurora blue, Visconti blue, Kaweco blue, and others are, in my opinion, probably based on the same dye, most likely methylene blue.

It's not easy to confirm that because ink recipes are kept very secret by all ink manufacturers, but all of these give similar colour tints, a deep blue slightly verging on red/purple.

Methylene blue is an aniline based dye that was synthesized in the late 1800s for the textile industry. Many other uses for it were quickly found including office supplies (and probably inks), but also medical uses (it has antiseptic properties and was used against malaria - and it would not surprise me that its antifungal properties could be one of the reasons why it's extremely unlikely to find even a very old bottle of Pelikan Royal blue and other similar inks turned bad - I have a few that are 40 years old and are perfect).

The above is my own speculation, I'd be pleased to find the exact formulae...

 

In my experience saturation of these inks is mostly a matter of dilution, when they look washed out your best bet is let them evaporate slightly in the bottle. Serenity blue can be a very saturated ink when slightly evaporated and also will sheen in such case.

 

My further alternative is ink mixing.

9 parts of serenity (or royal blue) + 1 part Diamine sargasso sea makes wonders, getting rid of the washed out effect ... (and uses up a good deal of serenity or royal blue at the same time).

Honestly however in a 1910 Waterman pen I'd use nothing else than either Pelikan Royal blue or Waterman Serenity.

[mizgeorge]

36 minutes ago, sansenri said:

Honestly however in a 1910 Waterman pen I'd use nothing else than either Pelikan Royal blue or Waterman Serenity.

+1 on both.

 

I tend to use the Waterman for pens where I want a slightly wetter ink, and königsblau for eyedroppers and neither has ever let me down. 

[ENewton]

I write almost exclusively in purple and would not want to be without a bottle of Waterman to use in vintage pens, but given its liveliness, I tend to use it only during spring and summer.  For other times of year, I prefer the more somber purples available from other sources.

[Runnin_Ute]

I recently replaced a bottle of Waterman Serenity Blue with another one. I think it is a very underrated ink. And I have seen red sheen with the right pen and paper combination. It took a very wet pen (Parker Vacumatic Emerald Pearl) and Tomoe River paper.

[bunnspecial]

On 4/10/2021 at 8:27 PM, Runnin_Ute said:

recently replaced a bottle of Waterman Serenity Blue with another one. I think it is a very underrated ink. And I have seen red sheen with the right pen and paper combination. It took a very wet pen (Parker Vacumatic Emerald Pearl) and Tomoe River paper.

 

I've said this before and been questioned on it, but I've seen it too on Rhodia. It does take a very wet writing pen, or the first time I saw it a pen that would inconsistently gush then dry up.

[theodore94]

Thank you all for your excellent comments... this has been eye opening!

 

In the course of the past few days, I think I may have answered my own question. I bought a Waterman Audacious Red Ink, and it's not quite "audacious" to me. It's a little washed out -- closer in color to an orange than a deep red that I was hoping for. I have it in a fine MB 144, and I'm writing on Mnemosyne paper (which I've found to be similar to Rhodia). Do I need a wetter nib to get it to be a deeper red, or is it just not a deep red color? I'm looking for something that's dark enough to see easily on the page, but red enough to differentiate it from black or brown.

 

A lot of the complaints about Waterman appear to be that it lacks variety. That makes sense -- apparently, I want a deeper red than what Waterman offers! Is there a very safe (and preferably affordable) ink that has a lot of color variety? I want to buy something very safe because I sometimes write with vintage eyedroppers, like my Waterman 514 or Parker 33. (As you can tell from my previous posts on FPN, I'm very paranoid about damaging my pens!).