Wasn't the Lever Fill Pretty Much the Best Idea?

[Teterman2005]

9 hours ago, eric.zamir said:

Those vintage piston MB's are amazing...

Very much agree.  My collection is mostly Sheaffer lever or vac-fillers (and a couple of snorkels, touchdowns, and...basically a mix of all sorts of fillers now that I think about it), but my one vintage MB piston filler is my favorite 😍 

[TheDutchGuy]

9 hours ago, eric.zamir said:

The bags don't hold a lot of ink, I hate the burp towards the end of the load, and I'm tired of ordering sacs...

 

^—Agreed. Plus the lever slips under my nail. At least button fillers can be used as reliable eye-droppers without making any changes to the pen.

 

As far as I know, there is exactly one place in all of Holland which can repair vintage pens. The person who runs it isn’t getting any younger. Now, I can re-sac the average lever- or button-filler, but things like replacing diaphragms and cutting cork seals are in another league. I’d also need various tools and materials. Might be fun if I had more time, but I don’t. So I probably won’t be buying more vintage pens that I’d have a hard time servicing myself.

[Bristol24]

I want to bring this full circle baçk to the original question which was asked in an historical context: "wasn't the lever fill pretty much the best idea?"  My answer is, yes, it was.  It has proven to be durable, in spite of its perceived fragility and it withstood the test of time. There was nothing to unscrew and no blind cap to get lost. World War Ii rationing of rubber discouraged its continued use, however, and helped to create the transition to systems using less rubber.  The system has its drawbacks but in the context of when it was employed and the technologies of the time, it was a winner and left other pen manufacturers in the dust or paying royalties to Sheaffers.

 

Cliff

[Estycollector]

9 minutes ago, Bristol24 said:

I want to bring this full circle baçk to the original question which was asked in an historical context: "wasn't the lever fill pretty much the best idea?"  My answer is, yes, it was.  It has proven to be durable, in spite of its perceived fragility and it withstood the test of time. There was nothing to unscrew and no blind cap to get lost. World War Ii rationing of rubber discouraged its continued use, however, and helped to create the transition to systems using less rubber.  The system has its drawbacks but in the context of when it was employed and the technologies of the time, it was a winner and left other pen manufacturers in the dust or paying royalties to Sheaffers.

 

Cliff

Cliff, thank you for reviving an old thread. I’ve not changed my mind. Folks thought I was crazy wanting a Sheaffer Crest lever fill. I wish Esterbrook had adopted a screw rather than friction fit. 
 

cheers!!👍

[Detman101]

Just what I don't need...a fragile condom full of ink in my pen to break.
No thanks...lol.
I'll stick to my japanese eyedroppers.

[Bo Bo Olson]

32 minutes ago, Detman101 said:

Just what I don't need...a fragile condom full of ink in my pen to break.
No thanks...lol.
I'll stick to my japanese eyedroppers.

Way back in the mid-50's I grew up with lever fillers, the P-51 squeeze gadget and the Snorkel.

"""fragile condom full of ink""""so speaks a man who never re-sacked a fountain pen.

 

Before saturated inks....Penman inks, or Noodlers.....US White made .rubber sacks lasted 30-40 years. No fragile about them.

Mine lasted 60 years. and one knew when the sack was dying, it got mushy and sucked up only half as much ink, and or had pinholes....not splits ...or I was lucky.

So much for fragile.

 

Of course companies went away from cheap rubber sac pens.

Ball points had come in and.....cartridges cost a fortune. (still do).....and with the proper ads siting convenience of carrying a little ink bottle in your pants pocket. Instead of filling your pen at your desk or at home with  the morning cup of coffee.

 

Be Lazy-----spend a fortune on up to date tiny plastic tubes of ink. 

 

As a workers kid I really couldn't afford cartridges...then you had to keep track from whom you borrowed them from...ball point pens were stolen as fast as a fountain pen...back in the day.....so before Bic, ball points were not the answer.

 

As you know with the right ad an American will buy anything at all....even pre Conklin...pre 1912 Sheaffer messy eyedropper pens. Though I'd thought most of them were Indian; not Japanese.

 

I can fill a lever pen is 5-6 seconds.....as fast as a Piston pen....4 X faster than a cartridge pen or a P-51. 10X or more faster than a messy eyedropper.

 

I've two Esterbrooks left the SJ blue in the middle and the DJ copper. Two  Wearevers; the green camouflage pre-war  MP&FP and my wife's '70's Turquoise .

There are times I regret thinning most of those pens. I had three pre and post  second tier Wearvers....as good as the Esterbooks.

 

 

[Estycollector]

I've never had a sac to break and leak. When I re-saced the Esterbrooks, I made sure the seal was sure before reassembling. Any inconvenient discharge came from a '32 Dollar pen, but only once, and then through the nib or feed. 

[bunnspecial]

13 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

 

Before saturated inks....Penman inks, or Noodlers.....US White made .rubber sacks lasted 30-40 years. No fragile about them.

 

Tossing this out there, but now that White Rubber has been gone for closing in on 40 years, and it successor company, The Pen Sac Company, being nearly that old, do we have solid data on how long modern sacs last with "normal" inks?

 

I send a lot of my stuff off(I'm finally starting to brave Vacs...sometimes soon hopefully...but the hardest part has been getting junk pens on which to practice) but do simpler sacs myself and I buy them from The Pen Sac Company-the successor to the White Rubber Company.

 

The condom comment is interesting, though, considering pen sacs and condoms are made the same way, or at least per the description of how the White Rubber machinery worked. Also, I've often thought that Vac diaphragms had a rather...interesting...shape.

[Bo Bo Olson]

There was some company that bought up White's machinery and found some old folks to make sacs more than a decade ago...back when I was noobie.......then I never heard anything  more about it.

I really hadn't expected that new company with old machines to survive with so few folks using sac pens. Had only hoped for a surge in new sacs....but got rid of my sac pens instead of worrying about it.

 

"""The Pen Sac Company, being nearly that old""" I'd not heard of that one before....or didn't keep in memory.

 

I understand China still makes sac's but haven't really heard good, bad or indifferent about their sacs.  I have an impression drawn from where I don't know that their sacs didn't last long.........However  for all I know folks were using supersaturated inks in their Chinese sac pens.

 

[bunnspecial]

12 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

There was some company that bought up White's machinery and found some old folks to make sacs more than a decade ago...back when I was noobie.......then I never heard anything  more about it.

I really hadn't expected that new company with old machines to survive with so few folks using sac pens. Had only hoped for a surge in new sacs....but got rid of my sac pens instead of worrying about it.

 

"""The Pen Sac Company, being nearly that old""" I'd not heard of that one before....or didn't keep in memory.

 

I understand China still makes sac's but haven't really heard good, bad or indifferent about their sacs.  I have an impression drawn from where I don't know that their sacs didn't last long.........However  for all I know folks were using supersaturated inks in their Chinese sac pens.

 

 

The Pen Sac Company IS that company to which you refer.

 

White Rubber closed up shop on their sac making operation in 1985. The guys running the Pen Sac company bought the machinery and the remaining inventory in 1986, and if I'm remembering correctly they got some old employees back in to get the machinery operational again. They've been running since then.

 

To be honest, and I don't know this, I wonder if there is actually anyone else even making pen sacs. It has to be a fairly specialized operation, and essentially having an "original factory" with its original equipment would probably be the best way to do it...

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thanks for the info.

IMO to stay in business, they'd have to be supplying China.

 

North or South Carolina is still supplying much of the old once US name brands now in foreign lands with US made denim.

 

I advocate Wrangler (besides fitting better) , in they pay a living wage to their workers in Guatemala, Poland and Turkey.....can't say that about 7/12/366/ hot bunk Levis in China.

Very over priced....status brand.......surprised not studded with little red tags; like a certain suit company. Has not been on my buy list since they moved to China and jacked their prices to rich folks only.

[Detman101]

On 8/25/2021 at 8:09 AM, bunnspecial said:

The condom comment is interesting, though, considering pen sacs and condoms are made the same way, or at least per the description of how the White Rubber machinery worked. Also, I've often thought that Vac diaphragms had a rather...interesting...shape.

Precisely why the image came to my mind...lol.

[sirgilbert357]

Lever fillers were an important step in fountain pen evolution, but I find the aerometric style (think Parker with it's fully encased sac and integrated pressure bar) to be far superior.

 

- Less moving parts, less to break

- Sac is fully protected; and Pli-glass sacs have proven to be extremely durable

- Pen can be designed with a screw on/off barrel

- Pen can be designed without a cut out in the body for the lever

 

The only way I would improve upon Parker's design is to make the aerometric portion of the pen screw into the section. This would make it easy to swap if and when the sac goes bad, and it would eliminate the need for adhesive. But that's a small thing...

[inkstainedruth]

That's an interesting concept.  But honestly, most of my 51 Aerometrics, with their Pliglass sacs, have not had to have the sacs replaced.  And most of mine are from the 1950s (the Plum Demi is from 1949 -- so that's over 72 years of life for the sac).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[trmsw]

On 3/19/2021 at 11:45 AM, Karmachanic said:

 

Wasn't Isn't the Lever Fill Bulk Filler Pretty Much The Best Idea? 😁

Agreed, although vacuum fillers aren't bad. They both have a shut-off and allow you some control over the ink flow by opening / closing the blind cap. The bulk filler is much better at, well, filling.  And it lets you use the piston (with the head disengaged) to prime the feed.

[trmsw]

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Edited August 26, 2021 by trmsw
Duplicate

[Bo Bo Olson]

5 hours ago, sirgilbert357 said:

Pli-glass sacs

If not mistaken the Pli-glass sacs came in with the '51, not the Vac.

 

For lack of problems and much faster than a P-51 a Pelikan piston pen...true the Plastic Gasket 1.0---'38/9-54 does die.....the Plastic Gasket 2.0 '55 to now don't die.....well at least not for me.

 

Stick in the ink, twist the piston, remove, wipe and go.

I've no idea how fast a bulk filler fills...............and I intend to travel on the QE3.....or fill my piston pen all the way up.

[Estycollector]

5 hours ago, sirgilbert357 said:

Lever fillers were an important step in fountain pen evolution, but I find the aerometric style (think Parker with it's fully encased sac and integrated pressure bar) to be far superior.

 

- Less moving parts, less to break

- Sac is fully protected; and Pli-glass sacs have proven to be extremely durable

- Pen can be designed with a screw on/off barrel

- Pen can be designed without a cut out in the body for the lever

 

The only way I would improve upon Parker's design is to make the aerometric portion of the pen screw into the section. This would make it easy to swap if and when the sac goes bad, and it would eliminate the need for adhesive. But that's a small thing...

It would be interesing to know the ratio of aerometric Parkers vs Esterbrook that survived. Non use probably killed more pens than worn parts. I have an Esterbrook Deluxe circa 1955 with an orginal Eastbrook branded sac. It's as pliable as a new one. It was never filled however and I didn't fill it either. 

 

It should be noted that screwing on and off could result in a plastic crack. 

[txomsy]

8 hours ago, Estycollector said:

It should be noted that screwing on and off could result in a plastic crack. 

 

Could it be because people tend to over-tighten when screwing in things just in case it unscrews itself and causes a mesh? This means in the not-so-long run, the threaded part, which is spiral and thinner, suffers from fatigue and ends up cracking.

 

I know. Nowadays we tend to treat pens carefully, but back then, I'd carry them in a pocket or a backpack loose with many other items, books, whatever. It was not rare that the cap or the body would loosen and risk making a mesh, and sometimes did.

 

BTW, I always wondered why pen makers didn't add a cylindrical elastic gasket, level with the rest of the surface, that would prevent it while allowing over-tightening for safety. Getting something as (today) simple as a gasket wasn't so easy back then, in pre-DIY times. I can see where any implement that makes unwanted unscrewing harder would also make wanted unscrewing harder. But I would have accepted it willingly for the peace of mind of knowing the pen wouldn't make a mesh.

 

I've carried on a pocket a cheap Chinese clone of the Delike clone of the Kaweco Sport. I had that issue a few times at the beginning (the cap unscrewing, and even the body afterwards), but its plastic threads in the cap allow me to over-tighten the cap as much as I need and I have rarely had a problem since. And they are so cheap I do not care if ever that plastic piece wears out.

 

So, there, maybe it is not screwing on/off but over-tightening for fear it might get loose. Something that perhaps may be tackled with a plastic gasket.

 

[vicpen123]

My first fountain pen at age 13 was a Platignum Silverline lever fill and my second at age 19 was a P'51' aerometric.

 

No comparison - the P"51" wins hands down. My nails didn't last as long with the end of the lever fill.

 

Today I prefer a converter. Nil maintenance ever. For those who assert that it doesn't hold as much ink or is too simple in a sophisticated tool such as a fountain pen,  I say "phooey".