Recommendation for tip

[MarioR81]

Hello

is there any nib on the market (dip pen or fountain pen) that will deliver lines from 0.1 to 0.9 and at the same time has some sort of tipping? I like to use the Zebra G-nib but it really don't last long and soon enough the hair thin line is no longer there because the tip was ground in the writing. Preferably I'd prefer to not go a vintage route and rather a modern cartridge/converter so I can easily open to clean up, flush etc. What should I be looking for? Pilot Falcon? Platinum 3776? from the photos I've seen they don't seem fine enough.

As an alternative I wonder if a Pilot Penmanship nib can be ground to allow some flex.. someone has any experience on this?

 

Thanks

[BaronWulfraed]

Just an advisory: "Pilot Falcon" commonly refers to two pen models with "soft" nibs, not really flex. "Pilot FA" refers to a particular nib advertised as being "flex".

 

However, I've not seen any fountain pen nib that supports a 9X spread. Even a 3X spread is difficult and takes more pressure than I feel comfortable applying (and that's with so-called "flex" nibs).

 

[MarioR81]

I've seen some waterman samples online that go from fine to ridiculously broad. But what I'm looking for is a very fine, hair thin fine that can give some line variation, and at same time retain the tip (assuming from my research I should be looking for a dip pen nib, not fountain pen.

[pearlfox]

https://www.nibs.com/content/spencerian-customization-fountain-pens

 

No affiliation, nor endorsement as I've not tried one yet.  I've been hunting for similar for a good while and this seems to be among the more promising options for a modern pen.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Get your self an Ahab, which is a very hard semi-flex, then have or make a set of half moons on the nib, like the pilot factory mod. It will take the Ahab nib to an easy full flex super flex....a nice easy to use fun flex nib.

 

That will give you a 5X tine spread, perhaps even 6X........and the nibs are easy to come by, when eventually you spring the nib from constant mashing it.

 

Do look up 'Ahab mod' here on the com.

XXF-BBB is very very expensive, because they are indeed very rare and fragile, as found on some Watermans (not all '52's will do that***.)...............Do be wary of nib abuse papers on Ebay or Nib

Abusers on You-tube. They will sell you a pre-sprung nib for your convenience.....or one that that is ready to spring.

 

****I have one that goes 7 X, the other will only go to BB...6 X.

How ever having read Richard Binders advice on metal fatigue, never max any of my superflex nibs, out side the once to see where it maxes too.

So I'd only take my 7 X to 6 X and not all the time, my 6X to 5 X, and I do have a few 5X superflex nibs, that I only take to 4X..........I want to keep the nib, unsprung.

There is nothing like being Ham Fisted with a superflex nib to $$$$repair and the nib will never be exactly as good as it once was.

 

The Ahab Mod is IMO the best way to go....then you have to ask what fountain pen Ink will do the trick......dip pen inks like Higgins and Newton&Wayne/or what ever are not for fountain pens.

 

[MarioR81]

@pearlfox your comment reminded me this : 

 

I still wonder about the Mottishaw modification...

 

 

 

Thanks Bo bo, I wonder if the Ahab isn't too thin is it? Maybe I could try and grind for a finer nib...

[Bo Bo Olson]

Just get the regular Ahab, take your dremil or round swiss file and make it a superflex nib first........you can always take it down to EF or  XXF......and needle point is much narrower with no margin for margin.

 

She could have done that in half the time. Her penmanship is great, but I've never before heard that I had to hold any of my regular flex.... or semi-flex different. ...to prevent springing the nib....but if you wish you can learn that.

 

SF could be more flexible than regular flex.....depending on how heavy she was pushing. I don't have a good Hand, but it wasn't quite what I'd expect from a semi-flex.

 

Semi-flex can go to 3 X with no problems in vintage '50-70 nibs. In fact I was so heavy handed it took me to go from maxing....which is 3 X down to 2 X or less, two full months.

One has to eventually get a light hand to get Line Variation On Demand.

 

Regular flex- one mashes the nib out to 3 X a light down stroke. I don't have a good enough Hand to write and mash like she appears to do. I could write a full letter mashed out to 3X....but after that no way.

.....I don't want to spring the nib. But she has more control of her Hand than I do. I'd like to see what she does with a regular flex Pelikan 200.

 

Semi-flex goes out to 3 X with half the pressure of regular flex and one can write max with it....I did when I was ham fisted. got 35 or so of them.

 

Maxi-semi-flex goes out to 3 X with half the pressure of semi-flex or 1/4th the pressure of regular flex. Got 15 of them.

 

In I think Degussa who made the gold and steel ribbon wheel for Osmia (and being the major gold producer in Germany made the gold for others....in that would explain why none of the other brands can you tell if it's going to be a semi or a maxi, out side of Osmia it's luck of the draw. First gold wheel sitting there ...so Pelikan and MB ended up with maxi-semi-flex gold ally wheels. I do have some maxi's in those brands but that is Pure Luck.

With Osmia's Supra nibs....one has lots more chance to get a Maxi.

 

With in the last 6 weeks my engraved in stone opinion of all of their Supra nibs being maxi-semi-flex has been proven wrong by a guy with a small collection of only 60 Osmia pens. There the stone wall I was sitting on turned out to be mud.....and the guy did say it was rain....but who knows for sure.

 

How ever I could see after I learn how to write to take an EF maxi-semi-flex which I have one or two, and do Spenserian. It's something I'd not realized.....thinking it was more Ornamental.  Dip pen stuff.....got dip pens, need bottle of will power.

(By the way, the daughter of Spenser; years his secretary (Spenserian started @ 1850, was better than her two brothers ((making a living in the 1870-80's from teaching writing and writing books on it), but they forbid her to publish her book, in it would put them out of work.)

1922-@ 1960, taken over by Faber Castell @ 1951.

Osmia and Osmia-Faber-Castell was a top of the line German pen from 1922 to somewhen in the late '50's. The fools at Faber-Castel a producer of second tier pens needed a top flight pen and slowly bought up the always brook....didn't have an office supply company to support it like Soennecken, MB, Pelikan and later Geha. They were very egotistical, having bought up a title as a merchant family, erased Osmia gradually from their pens.....instead of keeping a great brand name. Ball points killed them off.

Osmia small diamond, often with the nib size in the diamond is semi-flex.

Look for an Osmia Supra nibbed pen.....perhaps you will get lucky and it will be a maxi. The Supra nib comes either with the Large empty diamond & Supra or with just Supra on it.

I swiped this picture  from someone on the com...thanks for the use.

 

Here are some other Osmia pens.....the first is a grail pen for me.....I didn't get it a decade ago because as noobie I knew $350 was a fortune.......................wisdom come with age and a bigger bank account.

Mid '30's Supra Deluxe...the one they took on the big boys.

A signature pen as you can see by the Supra nib....BBB at least.

 

I take the worlds worse pictures so hijacked these. I do have them or their twin. I have 7-8 Oamia or Osmia-Faber-Castel pens.

Their value have dropped on German Ebay to what they were a decade ago when they were my upper limit...Some some going for E60...not long ago. I haven't looked lately. The owenr has to take paypal and ship to your country.

BCHR black chased hard rubber.

With two numbers it is an Osmia pen, with three it is O-F-C...more or less.

This is a 540 OFC with a steel Supra nib.........and the Steel nib is good as the Grand Gold nib....no BS.....being a gold snob, I let some grand steel nibbed pens land in other hands.

 

1936 the Bohler brothers, owner of Osmia split the company.

This is a mdl 54. He continued using the model numbers. Full Tortoise.

Unfortunatly a different nib, needing to get by Hitler's gold stealing, imported Axis gold plated nibs from Italy....Bling is a Must when starting a brand up.  There are more pretty Osmia/OFC pens than I could then or now afford....

 

Two more Osmia/Bohler BCHR pens. I have a couple just about as fancy BCHR from Osmia.

 

So instead of 150+180, take a gander at Osmia on German ebay for much less than half.

It's finding the EF in Supra that will take time.....and it could be one of the smaller plain pens.....have a couple of them too.

[MarioR81]

thanks man for the huge post on Osmia pens. I'm convinced about the ahab.. also considering a kanwrite already in ultra flex. It's cheaper to arrive in Brazil than Ahab and FPR.

By the way what about osmiroid copperplate? Do their tip wear off with time? Doesn't seem to be tipped.

[sidthecat]

Keep an eye out for old dip pens with gold nibs. they're astoundingly flexy and #3 or 4 can fit into a fountain pen. Watch out for bent tines and lost tipping.

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 2/12/2021 at 2:22 PM, MarioR81 said:

By the way what about osmiroid copperplate? Do their tip wear off with time? Doesn't seem to be tipped.

Don't know about the copperplate (didn't know they existed, in they have to have some flex to do Copperplate.

I do have a set of six nibs from BB, B, M M-F, F, EF, that are stiff Italic nib calligraphy nibs, which have no tipping. I don't expect any to wear out, in I'm not using them much.....

I've no idea how long they would last if used for hours a day.

Those are for drawing italic lettering not copperplate; until one learns enough to write.

I'd expect them to last a year of hard use, two-three years of an hour a day.

They are not too hard to find. I found them on English Ebay.

 

I have one a BB, on my Copper DJ Esterbrook, in they also fits Esterbrook pens. I like the wide nibs when copying letters out of my Italic Calligraphy book, I can see my mistakes easier.

[MarioR81]

Thanks Bobo.

@sidthecat like this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-GOLD-DIP-PLATED-TRAVELLING-POCKET-DIP-PEN-CALLIGRAPHY-PRINCE-HENRY-NIB/333886480552?hash=item4dbd2f60a8:g:gLAAAOSwtEFgJWJS

[inkstainedruth]

MarioR81, that looks like a dip pen, not a fountain pen.  SidtheCat specializes in collecting vintage ringtop fountain pens, and manages to find a lot of them with very flexy nibs.

But, you know, I'm wondering if that nib could get retro-fitted onto something like one of the Desiderata pens.  I have a prototype one which came with a Zebra G nib on it, and the nib was AWFUL -- tore into pretty much every paper I tried except for, IIRC, Clairefontaine.  But the nib *did* flex nicely, and a couple of years later tried some tester pens Pierre had out at his table at DCSS the last year I went to it; and the tester pens had less awful nibs (I think still Zebra G) so I guess I just got a bad nib on mine.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Nice find and price....but is not an osmiroid stiff italic nib.

But it could give you the superflex pen you wish....but a dip pen, which you have some experience with.

 

There are a lot of beautiful stiff nibbed italic scripts.............but like copper plate, you have to learn to draw the letters....good thing I have a book.

[MarioR81]

21 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

MarioR81, that looks like a dip pen, not a fountain pen.  SidtheCat specializes in collecting vintage ringtop fountain pens, and manages to find a lot of them with very flexy nibs.

But, you know, I'm wondering if that nib could get retro-fitted onto something like one of the Desiderata pens.  I have a prototype one which came with a Zebra G nib on it, and the nib was AWFUL -- tore into pretty much every paper I tried except for, IIRC, Clairefontaine.  But the nib *did* flex nicely, and a couple of years later tried some tester pens Pierre had out at his table at DCSS the last year I went to it; and the tester pens had less awful nibs (I think still Zebra G) so I guess I just got a bad nib on mine.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

But he mentioned old dip pen nibs. I see what you mean the Zebra G nib. A brand new zebra G nib is VERY sharp and can easily catch paper fiber. After some use the nib is ground and it becomes smoother but that super fine line is no longer there  that's why I asked for recommendation on either dip pen or fountain pen that will keep that fine line with some variation.

[MarioR81]

18 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Nice find and price....but is not an osmiroid stiff italic nib.

But it could give you the superflex pen you wish....but a dip pen, which you have some experience with.

 

There are a lot of beautiful stiff nibbed italic scripts.............but like copper plate, you have to learn to draw the letters....good thing I have a book.

The italic nib will give me line variation in specific movements unless I rotate the wrist all over the place hehe

[Bo Bo Olson]

Supposed to write , with the pen before the big index knuckle and at a 45 degree cant.....completely different than a fountain pen; because the script is so different.

Don't rotate the wrist, just place it in your hand already canted....and hold it verticle, very much a push pull printed strokes..........after you have mastered one or more alphabets, you could go over to cursive.

 

(...I'm still at the take the hammer and chisel, and knock off the fossilized dust off my book on my desk; using wide nibs so I can see my mistakes better.....having not mastered the script much less the many scripts, so am not using cursive.) 

[A Smug Dill]

On 2/11/2021 at 3:35 AM, MarioR81 said:

is there any nib on the market (dip pen or fountain pen) that will deliver lines from 0.1 to 0.9 and at the same time has some sort of tipping?

 

If you meant a mass-market and/or ready-made product for you to just buy off-the-shelf, or at least order from a product catalogue, probably not as far as fountain pen nibs go.

 

On 2/11/2021 at 3:35 AM, MarioR81 said:

Platinum 3776? from the photos I've seen they don't seem fine enough.

 

Platinum #3776 (and President) nibs, of any type and/or grade, should not be as fine as you say you want, lest they be outside of the manufacturer's own specifications. Then, even if a UEF nib is made half the width that it ought to be, either due inconsistencies in Platinum's production processes or by deliberate after-market modification, there is no way the metal will elastically deform to give you a 0.9mm line when you demand that of the nib, then spring back to ‘normal’ unchanged and undamaged.

 

On 2/11/2021 at 3:35 AM, MarioR81 said:

As an alternative I wonder if a Pilot Penmanship nib can be ground to allow some flex.

 

Sure, but a Pilot Penmanship EF nib is not as narrow as 0.1mm to begin with, and adding “some flex” does not mean it can deliver 0.9mm-wide lines either.

 

On 2/11/2021 at 3:35 AM, MarioR81 said:

What should I be looking for?

 

As has already been pointed out, as long as it's not about “flex” but simply the capability to deliver a broad range of line widths, you could get a (very stiff) Italic or Music nib ground down to put down razor-thin 0.1mm lines with cross-strokes co-linear with the nib's broad edge, and much thicker lines with downstrokes; but such a nib would be effectively without tipping. Or you could probably get (the tipping on) a Sailor Zoom nib ground down to yield 0.1mm-thin lines when the pen is held almost perpendicular to the page, and 0.9mm-thick lines when wielded at a shallow angle.

[Grayspoole]

On 2/10/2021 at 11:35 AM, MarioR81 said:

Hello

is there any nib on the market (dip pen or fountain pen) that will deliver lines from 0.1 to 0.9 and at the same time has some sort of tipping? I like to use the Zebra G-nib but it really don't last long and soon enough the hair thin line is no longer there because the tip was ground in the writing.

 

MarioR81–

 

What are you trying do with this pen? Drawing? Everyday writing? Calligraphy? If so, what kind of script? It might help to know to narrow down your options.

 

You can sharpen Zebra and vintage pointed nibs on fine sandpaper or a stone.

 

On 2/10/2021 at 3:31 PM, MarioR81 said:

what I'm looking for is a very fine, hair thin fine that can give some line variation, and at same time retain the tip (assuming from my research I should be looking for a dip pen nib, not fountain pen.

 

“Some line variation” is easy to attain,  but going from very fine to 9X wider is a different matter. A very flexible and somewhat replaceable steel nib, preferably vintage, is best for this.  Vintage gold nibs are delicate and will bend and break if over-flexed. You can put vintage steel dip nibs into an Ahab and other fountain pen bodies.

 

On 2/12/2021 at 8:22 AM, MarioR81 said:

By the way what about osmiroid copperplate? Do their tip wear off with time? Doesn't seem to be tipped.

 

The Osmiroid copperplate nib (I have the older screw in version that fits into Esterbrooks and the Easy Change type that is set into a section) is not tipped. It is a very nice pointed nib with some flex, but not a lot. The Esterbrook 2048 is similar. These are good for everyday writing or calligraphy scripts with fine or moderate shading.

[MarioR81]

Here is a sample what I have in mind. I know it's not 0.1 but it gives an idea of the variation I'm looking for. the 9x refers in case of a 0.1. If the finest I can get is a 0.3, the thickest part might be 2 or 3x the size. I'm not looking to get THIS thick https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/191509-32-vintage-waterman-pens-wet-noodles-flex-nibs-red-ripples/

I have a zebra tip that is no longer that thin. I'll try to get it sharpened back to a fine tip and see what happens...

[sidthecat]

Mario,

That's a nice one. If you're careful, you can get them for reasonable prices. They're also nice drawing pens.