Anyone Ever Develop A Detailed Subjective Rating System For Your Pens?

[Paul-in-SF]

I was occupying my monkey mind with this recently. A detailed subjective rating system, to me, would look like this: you take all the rating factors you can think of, from usability to appearance to size and weight, make them as detailed as you like, give each factor a weight (say from 0 to 10) based on how important that factor is to you, and then rate the pen for each factor. The rating number would be based on how you subjectively feel about the pen in that specific area. When you multiply each factor's rating by its weight of importance, and then add up all those results, you get one large number for each pen.

 

Two examples: say that the ink loading method is very important to you, so you would give that factor a weight of 8 or 9; if it's a deal killer, give it a 10. For an individual pen, you might rate it a 1 if it has a method you don't like, a 5 for a method you can tolerate, and 10 for your favorite method. Scores for this factor on this pen might then range from around 8 to 10 up to 100. (If you want to put more emphasis on factors that matter a lot to you, you could increase the weight range to, say, 0 to 100.)

 

Or: say that the section girth is not so important to you, you can tolerate a wide range, you might give that factor a weight of 4 or 5. For an individual pen, if the section feels great you might rate it 7 to 10; if you notice that it makes you tired after a while you might rate it 3 or 4; if it slips out of your hand because it's too small or too big, you might give it a 1. Scores for this factor on this pen might range from 4 or 5 up to 50.

 

This would be an effort to get at the subjective value, to you, of each pen, and of pens in general. It's quite possible the exercise would be more beneficial than the final results, making you think more deeply about what specific factors you like about pens, and which ones you don't care about all that much.

[ParramattaPaul]

A detailed, subjective rating system? No.

 

Apparently, I am far too simplistic for that. Pens, for me fall in one of two categories; like or dislike based upon two characteristics; their aesthetics (how they look) and performance (how they write).

[corniche]

A detailed, subjective rating system? No.

 

Apparently, I am far too simplistic for that. Pens, for me fall in one of two categories; like or dislike based upon two characteristics; their aesthetics (how they look) and performance (how they write).

This is basically my system, too; but I'll also add "Comfort Level." I have some pens; like a Lamy Studio or Jinhao 750, that look nice; write well, but their excessive weight make them only good for signatures and little else. But anything more would be too much like a job, but if you're into that kind of detailed analysis - go for it - it makes for great information for us louts and slackers.

 

 

- Sean

[A Smug Dill]

A detailed subjective rating system, to me, would look like this:

 

Isn't that this very thing here:

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/248729-welcome-to-the-reviews-subforum/,

of which you're already aware?

 

Anyone who has written a review on FPN in accordance with those guidelines were already using that system but "developed" their own subjective evaluation criteria — which need not be clearly articulated and shared as "knowledge", or even possible to articulate — for each aspect.

[inkstainedruth]

Not really. I already have too much OCD in me already.

I keep track of stuff like brand/model/color/nib width/purchase date/price (+ cost of any repairs sometimes with notes about details like date codes or other information which might be relevant). But that's all pretty objective (partly for insurance purposes), if I ever have to get a rider on my homeowner's policy. I also keep track of what pens are inked up and which ink is in them at any given time (and I have a notebook noting which inks work -- or don't, as the case may be) in specific pens.

A lot of times I get pens on the basis of "Ooh, shiny!" Now that can be any number of factors, ranging from I've liked a pen I had of a specific brand or model, and would like to get another one (maybe in a different color or with a different nib width). Or it could be an interesting fill system. Or (since a lot of my pens are vintage and/or found "in the wild" at antiques shops or estate sales) it's a case of "too good a price to pass up". Or, as in the case of my first Morrison ringtop, with a gold-filled filigree overlay, actually "shiny"....

Beyond that? I don't tend to like overly large or heavy pens, because I have small hands. But I like a range of pens and in any given day I might use several, for different purposes or with different color inks, or even different sizes, to give my hand a break. If I have to do research, involving taking a lot of notes, I'm going to want something that I don't have to stop and refill every time I turn around. But for writing journal entries? That's less crucial. And for signing checks? That's a case where the ink is more important than the pen, but I will need a pen that a more permanent ink will behave well in.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[praxim]

While I understand ratings, I have a different perspective from wanting what is “best”. I like variety in all sorts of experiences. After applying PP's criterion, separate those you like from those you do not, then the ones I like are each something different in appearance, feel, or something else. Of course I like some more than others. Should I discard all of my not-quite-best friends on that basis?

[Paul-in-SF]

 

Isn't that this very thing here:

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/248729-welcome-to-the-reviews-subforum/,

of which you're already aware?

 

Anyone who has written a review on FPN in accordance with those guidelines were already using that system but "developed" their own subjective evaluation criteria — which need not be clearly articulated and shared as "knowledge", or even possible to articulate — for each aspect.

 

While I understand ratings, I have a different perspective from wanting what is “best”. I like variety in all sorts of experiences. After applying PP's criterion, separate those you like from those you do not, then the ones I like are each something different in appearance, feel, or something else. Of course I like some more than others. Should I discard all of my not-quite-best friends on that basis?

 

What we have here is failure to communicate. What I was discussing in my post is a possible internal process of trying to understand my own subjective evaluations of the pens that I own. I said nothing about reviews, nothing about objective ratings, nothing about what is "best," nothing about weeding out and discarding. I did not mention anything about why you acquired the pen or how much you paid. It is true that I was talking about applying numbers to this process, but the process of arriving at those numbers is entirely subjective, trying to find a way to quantify what one likes and how much one likes it by breaking it down into component parts.

 

I am sorry that my efforts to express myself were so poor. I will try to do better in the future.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Paul-in-SF

[corniche]

https://youtu.be/_WUyZXhLHMk

 

 

- Sean

[Parker51]

I don't have such a system because:

I like different pens for different reasons,

I find that with some pens they have totality of design which does not translate into discrete design elements and

there are some pens I like, but have reservations buying/ owning due to cost as well as due to fragility.

[A Smug Dill]

What we have here is failure to communicate. What I was discussing in my post is a possible internal process of trying to understand my own subjective evaluations of the pens that I own.

Indeed. There I was, thinking that by "anyone" in the question posed, you were asking whether someone else other than yourself has "developed" such a rating system that they use for their pens; and I was pointing out that there are many pen reviewers on FPN who must have done exactly that.

 

Some examples:

• https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/352548-pineider-amber-avatar-a-review/
• https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/350199-fosfor-king-of-pen/
• https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/328894-faber-castell-ambition-pearwood/

Ratings were given for different aspects. Some subjective reasons for giving those ratings were offered. An overall rating, with or without (non-uniformly) weighting each aspect, was given. Isn't that exactly what you described, whether or not it was done in the context of a review, or whether or not the system was applied to every pen? One could have a system that was only used six times even though he/she has 300 of whatever to the system could be applied; maybe it's a matter of not yet getting around to applying the system to the other 294, or maybe he/she is developing or experimenting with alternative systems from which to ultimately choose.

 

The pen review forum guidelines do contain this one mention of objectivity:

"Also, remember that the more objective the review, the better."

but then immediately followed with:

"Embellish your descriptions of what you like and don't like about your pen and why. Subjectivity is normal, but justification enlightens."

 

What someone likes or doesn't like is, by definition, subjective as opposed to objective. Hating nibs that are "scratchy", or dry, or too narrow is not objective because there is no objective, or agreed, or industry standard target or requirement with which the nib ought to comply. Every reason given for a particular rating is subjective, if it is not from assessment against some independent standard, industry regulations or published best practice, etc.

 

I said nothing about reviews, nothing about objective ratings, nothing about what is "best," nothing about weeding out and discarding. I did not mention anything about why you acquired the pen or how much you paid. It is true that I was talking about applying numbers to this process, but the process of arriving at those numbers is entirely subjective, trying to find a way to quantify what one likes and how much one likes it by breaking it down into component parts.

You don't have to mention those things; it doesn't matter to anybody else's system whether you think they're relevant in assessing a pen. Evaluation of value for money is subjective, for those who choose to take such into account in assessing how much he/she likes a pen for what it is. I don't think you're expressly excluding anything you aren't personally interested in, from the format of such a system as you described. If you're only interested in four aspects, but someone else is interested in twelve, and perhaps even don't give much weight to your four primary areas of interest in pens, that's still subjective to the person whose system he/she has developed for his/her own use.

 

TL;DR – The answer to the question you posed, in the thread title of your choice, is quite obviously in the affirmative.

Edited August 31, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[FarmBoy]

The simplest system might be to say “ Do I have that pen?” And answer “No, I’ll get it”

[praxim]

What we have here is failure to communicate..

Indeed we have, so I will try to explain again.

 

A normal purpose of numerative scoring is to provide a scale which is reliable and can be validated, then used for discrimination as you suggest. Discrimination means some are better, some worse, all are scaled. That is not my perspective on pens, nor that of several other answers. A subjective number/weight* set will ultimately reflect the subjectivity first thought, rather than adding to assessment. However, if the idea is just a bit a bit of fun then any view suffices and none can be inappropriate. That is being subjective.

 

 

 

 

* a number/weight set as described will also, despite best efforts, be intrinsically erroneous, but that is a more obscure discussion than for FPN, and I doubt you are trying to be that serious anyway so no burden.

[PAKMAN]

No, not for me. That would really take away the enjoyment of this hobby for me and make it seem like work. If I likes it I likes it, if not I don't buy it or get rid of it.

[ParramattaPaul]

 

 

What we have here is failure to communicate. What I was discussing in my post is a possible internal process of trying to understand my own subjective evaluations of the pens that I own. I said nothing about reviews, nothing about objective ratings, nothing about what is "best," nothing about weeding out and discarding. I did not mention anything about why you acquired the pen or how much you paid. It is true that I was talking about applying numbers to this process, but the process of arriving at those numbers is entirely subjective, trying to find a way to quantify what one likes and how much one likes it by breaking it down into component parts.

 

I am sorry that my efforts to express myself were so poor. I will try to do better in the future.

 

Addressing solely the highlighted in red above, I, while I basically categorise pens into 'like' or 'dislike', there are pens I like or dislike more than others. For instance, I dislike my Lamy AL more than I dislike my Pelikan Pelikano. Yet, other than disliking one more than the other, I can not quantify why. In the end, it is simply a matter of taste much like why I prefer a glass of one Merlot with my roast lamb dinner than another.

 

Is that because I am shallow person and insufficiently analytical, or is it that I accept, and do not over-think, the simplicity of personal taste? That I do not know.

[MuddyWaters]

I think this type of system only tries to crudely approximate what your mind does implicitly without you knowing. Your mind poops out a result "good" or "bad" based on all these factors and how they interact with your hand. Another issue with these formulaic systems is that some of these factors probably don't work linearly (y=mx+.

[Estycollector]

If one would look at my small collection they would see a pattern. I tend to do this with all things having been all over the place as a lad where there was no rhymn nor reason.

 

My former spouse used to say, included as an additional comment to this topic, "just because something is on sale does not mean you have to buy it".

[Paul-in-SF]

Further thoughts on my part: when my mind puts out a judgment it is already more nuanced than "good" or "bad." And I can look at a pen and say, without a system, I like certain qualities about it, possibly dislike others, and about other qualities I am neutral. Perhaps other qualities I have not considered at all. What I was contemplating was a way to go deeper into that judgment process and understand it better.

 

Such numbers would not be "valid" or "invalid," they would simply come from my feelings and judgment. However, they would only be an accurate reflection as of the moment they were made, and if my attitudes changed they would no longer be entirely reliable. Of course I could change the ratings any time, but that doesn't seem practical, and really does seem like more work than benefit.

 

Having one big rating number for each pen doesn't provide a tool for understanding why I like some pens over others, that would only be in the details of the individual rating factors, or perhaps groups of factors. Do I rate usability over appearance? Sometimes, not always; and I'm not sure how to capture that divergence. There are probably clever ways to graph all that stuff so it could be easily analyzed and understood, but my math and data presentation skills, such as they are, do not extend that far.

 

So, back burner for now, as I allow these ideas to percolate.

 

p.s. those who fancy extended debates about what I said and what that ought to have meant should try elsewhere. I'm not playing that game.

[ParramattaPaul]

I'll offer only a perception.

 

It seems to me that what you are describing is similar to a product design process in which a series of a number of samples with different features are presented and analyzed with the favoured features incorporated together in the next series of samples until, at the end, the 'perfect' sample is selected.

 

That's very analytical. I can understand why it interests you as a means, as you said, to understand the whys of one's personal tastes.

[eciton]

I've tried this subjective scoring system many times, eg: https://ukfountainpens.com/2019/02/28/a-grand-new-methodology-scoring-my-pen-collection/

[sidthecat]

I tend to concentrate on the business end: how pretty a mark does it make? Is it relatively easy to fill? And does it unscrew itself when I wear it on a ribbon? If it’s not too dinged-up that’s good, too.