Techniques For Italic/oblique Grinds

[markh]

I have been modifying nibs for some years (my own only). Mostly thinning lines, but I've tried out edged nibs (italic and oblique) mods with some success.

Until recently I used MicroMesh only.

 

I am trying to increase my skills, and to that end recently got a Foredom Bench Lathe. My first attempts show that this makes things much easier, and so far results are better. Of course you can also screw up a nib much quicker...

 

I also have a number of edged nibs done by well known experts. I study the results carefully, and based on how I like using the nib try to get the same shaping of the nibs I'm doing.

 

I have noticed that the experts do edged nibs two ways (which I have attempted to illustrate in the drawing.)

I would be appreciate the opinions of people who are experts as to why to chose one over the other.

 

 

The image is looking at two nibs from the side. In the image on the left, both top and bottom of the nib are ground flat, giving the sharp writing edge. In the image on the right, the tip is flattened first, and then the bottom is ground flat to give a sharp edge. They both make nice shaped lines, though the feel differently when using.

 

thanks for your input.

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

Depending on the grinder's skill and actual outcome, I'd say the nib on the right would be more forgiving to all involved, and less likely to damage (the surface/coating of) the paper when writing with the nib; but the trade-off for that permissiveness is that if the user doesn't hold the pen at a fixed angle and orientation with discipline, there would be inconsistency (or unintended variation) in the line thickness of the cross-strokes.

 

That said, if I handed a gold nib with bulbous iridium tipping to a professional nibmeister to grind to a crisp italic for me, I'm not sure if I'd be happy for all the tipping to be removed in order to create that sharp wedge shape shown on the left in your diagram; and, to me, that's what nib-shaping expertise is about, not just playing with steel nibs where the amount of remaining tipping is largely irrelevant.

 

In which shape would you want your 18K gold Pelikan M1000 nib to be, if you want it to write like a stub/italic nib?

[TheDutchGuy]

The image on the left looks more like a needlepoint to me. Thinning the tines like that will make the tip of the nib bouncy and probably flexy. Personally, I don’t associate that with italics or obliques. The image on the right looks like an italic to me. On their new nib customization page, Appelboom has some nice images of the most common nib shapes, including italics and obliques, that clearly show the differences between these grinds.

 

Keep up the good work! Yesterday I re-discovered a mini-stub that I’ve made a year ago and it’s wonderful.

[BaronWulfraed]

You've not seen an Aurora italic nib then... The nibs look like wood chisels!

 

Unfortunately, my cell phone camera doesn't have the precision to shoot it, and I hope you'll forgive me if I don't dig up a light tent, photo-flood, and 60mm macro lens for my Canon SLRs.

Edited August 3, 2020 by BaronWulfraed

[markh]

I think maybe I should add a little additional information:

 

1. The diagram on the left (given my limited drawing tool skills) is at maximum sharpness. The writing surface (on both nibs actually) can be more or less rounded, depending on the effect desired.

The essential idea of the left is that the nib is ground flat, both top and bottom. If you purchase a stock Jowo or Bock stub nib, which has no tipping material, it will start flat like the left image, but a gentler curve (and a less expressive line).

 

2. I have nibs ground by "nibmeisters" who I think are at the top of the craft (names left out, but you would recognize them.)

Some produce results like the left, and some like the right. I don't think either is right or wrong. BUT the two versions do write slightly different.

 

3. The one on the left seems less picky as to the vertical angle I hold the pen at. I guess I prefer this way. All flat ground nibs require the nib to be held flat on the horizontal - a crisp nib can't be rotated. BTW my M1000 nib, which is my fav oblique, is ground like the left diagram, if less extreme.

 

4. The one one the right makes it much easier to grind the nib without damaging the plating on the top of the nib. One of the issues with nib grinding is plated nibs - a gold nib plated with white metal is gold where the plating is removed. Doing the left grind without damaging any plating on the top of the nib and making the grind visible is very difficult - one of the differences between me and the real experts.

 

I would like to hear from other nib modifiers on how they make the choice.

 

.

Edited August 3, 2020 by markh

[FarmBoy]

How do you use the lathe when grinding nibs?

[Freddy]

How do you use the lathe when grinding nibs?

Me too...Also..perhaps with pictures.....Or video..

 

Fred

Endlich fortissimo!

On visiting Niagara....

Gustav Mahler

[markh]

How do you use the lathe when grinding nibs?

 

 

I didn't name the product:

https://www.foredom.net/product/m-bl-bench-lathe-domestic-and-int-l-models/

 

This isn't a "lathe" in the sense that it grips the part, and allows you to cut threads, or drill out a pen, or make anything.

 

It's called a "lathe", but really it's in the same category as a fixed Dreml tool. However, a Dreml is high rpm/low torque. The Foredom is low rpm/high torque. Meaning it can be effective at a much lower rotational speed, allowing (at least me) much more precision in abrading/grinding/smoothing tipping material.

 

I use various wheels (like this: https://www.fdjtool.com/st4278-mounted-silicone-cylinder-14x12mm-extra-fin.html), also some Dreml tools, to shape or smooth nibs.

 

I'm still experimenting with what works best, but so far I find the results are better than my using Micromesh or mylar film.

 

.

Edited August 5, 2020 by markh

[txomsy]

I prefer the one on the right too. I use a grinding stone to get the rough shape and then a set of increasing grit (until 12000) paper to level the shape. In the end, mine do also tend to catch and cut through on the paper if not handled with care. I find that when I start writing I get catches until I relax and reach a "zen-like" mind state when it all just flows easily.

[markh]

 

I prefer the one on the right too. I use a grinding stone to get the rough shape and then a set of increasing grit (until 12000) paper to level the shape. In the end, mine do also tend to catch and cut through on the paper if not handled with care. I find that when I start writing I get catches until I relax and reach a "zen-like" mind state when it all just flows easily.

 

 

Sharp edged nibs are much less forgiving. Your hand needs to adjust to the nib, and that can take a few words/minutes.

I really like crisp oblique nibs, but they will always be in a small minority - not worth the trouble for most people.

 

.

[A Smug Dill]

I would like to hear from other nib modifiers on how they make the choice.

 

I always aim for the variant illustrated by the diagram on the right-hand side, but I'm limited by the amount of tipping material on the nib and, more important, my own (lack of) skill. When there isn't enough tipping material left, either as the nib was presented or because I inadvertently removed too much, then I don't have a choice but to go for the other variant.

 

I always prefer my broad-edged nibs to be crisp and unforgiving, because they teach me how to hold the pen when I write. I don't just want lay broad lines on the page to rapidly consume and/or show off ink qualities, yet seek some "line variation" to avoid the outcome looking dull in form. Writing beautifully should be a disciplined endeavour, as far as I'm concerned; and having to maintain mental focus and exert good, consistent motor control does not conceptually interfere with expressiveness, when one wants to express precisely yet with some flair.

 

Being able to keep as much tipping as possible, while still shaping an italic nib's edge to be straight and sharp, would be ideal to me.