New Pilot 823 Fine; Very Scratchy, Dry

[neverforget]

Hi FP community,

 

I just received a brand new 823 fine and after inspecting the pen, I loaded it with J. Herbin Perle Noir and when I went to write with it, I was surprised with how lousy it performs. I don't have a loupe but I have excellent eyesight and looked closely for issues with the nib but found none. I've included an image showing a sample with some skipping. My gut tells me this is a flow problem (lack of flow) but I would like to hear what you all think. I searched and found a few other posts with similar queries but they weren't helpful.

 

Thank you

[Betweenthelines]

Yep I've had a lot of Pilot nibs arrive writing too dry, the 823 one of them that I always have to increase. The only exceptions have been the falcon, FA, and #30 nibs.

 

Easiest method to increase the flow that Mark Bacas taught me is to grab the nib by the wings on both sides, and gently 'pull' up and out, this spreads the tines open without messing with brass shims or other things.

[stylophilly]

One other thing worth trying is to have the ink shut-off valve open all the way. Ive found that the official Pilot recommendation of pulling the plunger cap out so that theres a 2mm gap is simply not enough.

[FlyFast]

You may also want to try a wetter ink to see if that helps. I have not liked the performance of J Herbin in my Japanese pens. Pilot and Diamond inks work better in my 823 F.

[Mech-for-i]

Japanese Fine and EF ( or even finer ) and in general also Chinese EF and F are all tuned really to write with fairly conservative flow , no surprise there , care to try to write Chinese or Japanese on a 4/5 mm grid or ruled notepad / journal ... really that's the reason they were just tuned to write FINE as in FINE FINE , not trying to be the best in flowing cursive ; its both the nib and the feed ; now if you slow down and write your cursive as it is then suddenly you will find that ( usually ) everything turn out alright

[stylophilly]

Also check out this recent discussion on this topic: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/348324-pilot-custom-823-ink-flow;-is-there-a-learning-curve/

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/348324-pilot-custom-823-ink-flow;-is-there-a-learning-curve/

[neverforget]

Thanks to everyone who responded, much appreciated.

 

Yep I've had a lot of Pilot nibs arrive writing too dry, the 823 one of them that I always have to increase. The only exceptions have been the falcon, FA, and #30 nibs.

 

Easiest method to increase the flow that Mark Bacas taught me is to grab the nib by the wings on both sides, and gently 'pull' up and out, this spreads the tines open without messing with brass shims or other things.

 

Thanks for this tip, I was not to keen on the idea of messing with brass shims. I haven't tried expanding the tines as you describe but will if I don't see improvement.

 

 

One other thing worth trying is to have the ink shut-off valve open all the way. Ive found that the official Pilot recommendation of pulling the plunger cap out so that theres a 2mm gap is simply not enough.

 

You make a good point and I agree that the 2mm recomendation is not enough.

 

You may also want to try a wetter ink to see if that helps. I have not liked the performance of J Herbin in my Japanese pens. Pilot and Diamond inks work better in my 823 F.

 

I just loaded this pen with a brand new bottle of Pilot BlueBlack and so far i don't see much difference.

 

 

Because I purchased the pen from japan, a return/exchange is not realistic (I do not want to have the back and forth with the seller). I am crossing my fingers that the pen 'opens up' with some use. Unfortunately, I am very disappointed with this pen. I had been drooling over it for a while and after buying on impulse, I wouldn't say I regret the purchase, rather, my opinion of pilot pens has degraded significantly. While this is one of the lower priced pens in the FP world, it is absolutely unacceptable that a pen of this price writes so poorly.

[minddance]

Thanks to everyone who responded, much appreciated.

 

 

Thanks for this tip, I was not to keen on the idea of messing with brass shims. I haven't tried expanding the tines as you describe but will if I don't see improvement.

 

 

 

You make a good point and I agree that the 2mm recomendation is not enough.

 

 

I just loaded this pen with a brand new bottle of Pilot BlueBlack and so far i don't see much difference.

 

 

Because I purchased the pen from japan, a return/exchange is not realistic (I do not want to have the back and forth with the seller). I am crossing my fingers that the pen 'opens up' with some use. Unfortunately, I am very disappointed with this pen. I had been drooling over it for a while and after buying on impulse, I wouldn't say I regret the purchase, rather, my opinion of pilot pens has degraded significantly. While this is one of the lower priced pens in the FP world, it is absolutely unacceptable that a pen of this price writes so poorly.

These Pilot Custom will not 'open up' much with writing. The nibs are too resilient.

 

You might want to use flowy inks and/or absorbent papers.

 

Rohrer & Klingner Verdigris, Permanent Blue, Aubergine, Blu Mare work quite well for me in my Pilot 74s.

Edited August 19, 2019 by minddance

[Betweenthelines]

Thanks to everyone who responded, much appreciated.

 

 

Thanks for this tip, I was not to keen on the idea of messing with brass shims. I haven't tried expanding the tines as you describe but will if I don't see improvement.

 

 

 

You make a good point and I agree that the 2mm recomendation is not enough.

 

 

I just loaded this pen with a brand new bottle of Pilot BlueBlack and so far i don't see much difference.

 

 

Because I purchased the pen from japan, a return/exchange is not realistic (I do not want to have the back and forth with the seller). I am crossing my fingers that the pen 'opens up' with some use. Unfortunately, I am very disappointed with this pen. I had been drooling over it for a while and after buying on impulse, I wouldn't say I regret the purchase, rather, my opinion of pilot pens has degraded significantly. While this is one of the lower priced pens in the FP world, it is absolutely unacceptable that a pen of this price writes so poorly.

 

The fix is simple and easy, there's no need to be unhappy with the pen and wait for it to improve on its own. My standard practice for Pilot fine nibs is to open the tines to increase flow and do a few figure 8's on micromesh. This quickly leads to a nice smooth wet nib without the 'dragging' feedback that is often present with certain Pilot nibs.

 

Here's the video of Mark explaining how to increase flow. I did this to my own 823 that I received recently and it worked like a charm:

[neverforget]

 

The fix is simple and easy, there's no need to be unhappy with the pen and wait for it to improve on its own. My standard practice for Pilot fine nibs is to open the tines to increase flow and do a few figure 8's on micromesh. This quickly leads to a nice smooth wet nib without the 'dragging' feedback that is often present with certain Pilot nibs.

 

Here's the video of Mark explaining how to increase flow. I did this to my own 823 that I received recently and it worked like a charm:

 

Thanks for your help and the video. I tried the suggestion in the video (using my fingernails to gently pull the tines apart) and it may have improved the performance, SLIGHTLY.

 

Unfortunately, I am not pleased with the pen and can't recommend it.

[DonM]

My favorite pen, a Pilot Custom 742 with a medium nib, was awful when I first received it. Flow issues, but not scratchy (I think your scratchy problem is simply that it is a Japanese fine). I had to use brass shims because the tines were so tight together at the tip. I also ended up pulling the nib and scrubbing the feed with a soft tooth brush and a small amount of hand soap. That fixed it and it is an outstanding writer.

 

I know folks are always disappointed when they encounter this sort of problem with an expensive pen and end up with buyer's remorse, but a little work can yield excellent results. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect expensive pens to write well out of the box, but that simply is not reality in our mass produced world.

 

If you want that pen to write well, either make the leap and learn how to fix it yourself or alternatively send it to a competent nibmeister that can turn it into the pen you expected it to be.

[Vilchy1001]

I had the same, I received my long awaited Pilot custom 823 with fine nib this morning and I was very disappointed. 
I used pilot Irishuzuku kon peki blue ink on both my Lamy 2000 with extra fine nib and the new 823 fine nib. 
The Pilot 823 was scratchy, delivered a very pale kon peki blue line and didn’t give that much awaited writing experience, the Lamy 2000 on the other hand was smooth, gave a nice kon peki blue line, very nice.. what a difference!

 I contacted the pen company concerned and after flushing the pen on their advice with no difference I have returned it. They said they would give it a thorough check over for me but surely this should happen anyway. Why should a customer pay a lot for a pen then Have to pay more to have sorted out??