Confused About What Kind Of Material I Need For Calligraphy.

[TestTube]

So, couple things...

 

Firstly, I read in a couple places that you can't use fountain pen ink for dip pens and that dip pens have their own ink associated with them, however...

 

That can't be entirely true because:

<- This person is obviously using fountain pen ink.

 

Secondly...and this has been bothering me for a while...

 

Can someone tell me exactly what tools I need to get started practicing calligraphy? Specifically, I would like to eventually be able to do what the person in the video I linked is doing (I'd even like to be able to use the same ink, as the Iroshizuku inks are some of my favorites)

 

Thanks.

[putteringpenman]

If you are right handed, you will need an oblique pen holder like H115 or H114 on this page: https://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/oblique-holders.

 

If you are left handed, you should use a straight pen holder like H133 on the same link above.

 

You will also need dip pen nibs. I recommend N113 or N118 from this page: https://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/s?keyword=nikko+g.

 

You also need ink. Starting out, stick with traditional calligraphy ink since it's easier to work with. I08 is a good one: https://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/black-ink

 

Finally, you need to practice a lot. The person above is Schin Long who is a professional calligrapher with years of practice. She is using a Spencerian-like script. Take a look at a few books. Maybe something like this (I haven't used it myself): https://www.amazon.com/Spencerian-Handwriting-Collection-Practical-Workbooks/dp/1612435289/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G0P91MBX2Z5Y5M80PF3P.

 

Good luck!

[dfbach]

What putteringpenman said, and watch Schin Loong’s 101-videos. They helped me get started.

[sidthecat]

Dip pen ink is thicker than fountain pen ink. Some calligraphers also use gouache, which cleans up a lot easier.

 

And you can do calligraphy with a fountain pen, depending on what your goals are.

[A Smug Dill]

Can someone tell me exactly what tools I need to get started practicing calligraphy?

 

 

You could start with a 2B pencil and a pencil sharpener, when you're learning to draw the shapes of the minuscules and majuscules as well as how to modulate the pressure on the writing instrument.

[Honeybadgers]

You can use anything you want. A pencil will work, like dill said. A pencil actually works great, because you can utilize the blunted edge to really create some proper shades. a 0.7 mechanical pencil is my ideal tool for pencil calligraphy

 

Look up openinkstandcalligraphy on youtube and practice along with Schin's videos. You'll see how unnecessary a fountain pen is for basic spencerian. If you want to get more dramatic shades, you need a pen with a flexible nib. That means either a flex fountain pen (some $20 options out there that will do the job somewhat, some custom hacks with dip nibs that work great but require a bit more "knowledge" about the hobby to set up, but most will be either vintage in the $60-200 range or a custom high end gold nib.) These pens use fountain pen ink.

 

Alternatively a dip pen and pack of zebra G nibs (there is no alternative to the zebra G for beginners. You'll hate the experience so much less with a nice and smooth, consistent, easy to start zebra G) is under $15. They CAN use fountain pen ink, but not great. Dip pen ink (the black stuff is known as india ink) has gum arabic and shellac in it, which would ruin a fountain pen, but gives the surface tension required to really hang onto the dip nib. Fountain pen inks tend to (not all do, but some do and none do as well as proper dip ink) run straight off the nib into a big blob. You can mitigate this with a feed system or ink cage, which is a little advanced for a newbie.

 

My advice if you REALLY want to learn proper calligraphy, is to buy an oblique dip pen holder (speedball makes one but there are nice ones on ebay for about $3, though you have to wait for shipping) and a bottle of speedball or other india ink, some decent paper (my best recommendation is french ruled clairefontaine), and a pack of zebra G nibs. Follow along with some online tutorials and practice.

 

Once you are confident in your writing with a dip pen, you can decide whether or not a fountain pen is worthwhile for you.

 

All this info applies to pointed pen calligraphy. Broad edge calligraphy is much easier, as fountain pens exist that do the job for pennies, such as the pilot parallel.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[oraxia]

That depends quite a lot on what type of calligraphy you are interested in. Calligraphy can be accomplished with a wide spectrum of tools (pens, brushes, chalk, etc.) and a wide spectrum of "inks" and media, so you might want to first decide where you'd like to start and determine your tools from there.

 

I second what Honeybadgers has said in that you really can use fountain pen ink (and pretty much anything you want that doesn't dissolve your pen too quickly, really) in a dip pen if you thicken or thin it to your liking since there's no feed to worry about clogging. (Thicken with gum arabic, thin with water, experiment in small batches.) I've used cheap dollar store watercolors as "ink" just fine in a dip pen, and I've seen awesome results from others using actual paint (acrylic, maybe); they're really very versatile.

[A Smug Dill]

Calligraphy can be accomplished with a wide spectrum of tools (pens, brushes, chalk, etc.) and a wide spectrum of "inks" and media,

Equally, one could frame 'practising' as only using the tools and media intended for the final product, and repeating the same motions and/or exercises over and over, hoping/expecting that with each rehearsal the output gets closer and closer to how one would like the final product to be; or 'practising' could also a matter of working on different, limited-in-scope components and aspects of what one has to (or may have to) do for the main event, changing the focus of each practice session from one thing to the next, without going through a complete rehearsal using the actual tools.

 

Put another way, some would see "wax on, wax off" as legitimately one approach to practising karate while other learners may not. The prerequisite tools and/or 'material' required to start 'practising' something would depend on the approach chosen.

[Honeybadgers]

Also consider if the tools might improve the enjoyment from practice, which could encourage continuing practicing more.

 

You can autocross your PT cruiser, but you'd be a lot more inclined to go if you had a Lotus.

 

It's not always the case, but for some people, good tools help keep them engaged in their hobby. For some, it matters, for others it doesn't.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[txomsy]

I think that the best advice, besides all the above, is to first decide what it is you want to do.

 

Calligraphy means only "quality" or "nice" writing. You can accomplish that with anything that writes (even your finger on the sand). So it is not a matter of materials.

 

As any other physical activity, the brain learns by repeating and readjusting many times. Usually, combined learning -though counterintuitive- works better than single-minded learning (that's why we do not learn first one thing -e.g. maths- fully before proceeding to the next -say, physics- in school).

 

So, to start with, what is it that you want to achieve? Just "beautiful writing"? A specific style of "beautiful writing"? A specific style of "beautiful writing" with a specific tool? All of them would be valid. Just look for examples in the Net and choose.

 

You do not need to start with a dip pen. Your finger in the sand may suffice.

 

Side note: You can get "beautiful" writing from pencils or even ball-points. Line variation is not an attribute of callligraphy (only a common and often welcome embellishment). Letter shapes, elegance, good taste, proportions, are. All other matters are "subjective" and "fashionable" fades. Uniformity, horizontality, linearity... just look at samples of "modern calligraphy". Calligraphy is not Spencerian, or Gothic, or Uncial, or Italic, or Engrosser's, or Palmerian, or -some times- not even readability (though that should score very high).... Calligraphy is about the look and feel.

 

If you want to learn a specific "Copperplate-derived" style using a fountain pen, get one with a flexible nib, fp ink and fp-friendly paper. If using a ballpoint, get one, plain paper and practice, you won't get line variation but will get a beautiful writing. Marker. Brush. Dip pen. Pencil. Calamus. Spray can. Whatever.

 

If you prefer an "Italic-derived" script using a fountain pen, get one with a stub or italic nib and fp-friendly paper. If instead of FP you prefer a ballpoint, dip-pen, marker, calamus, feathers, fingers, etc. ditto. There are some tricks to imitate/evoke the line variation of an italic nib, though.

 

If you just want to learn "Calligraphy in a given style", do try with an FP, a dip-pen, a brush, your finger, pencil, spray cans, and anything that writes... and practice that script, the more tools you try the faster your brain will learn.

 

If you want "Calligraphy" in general, do try with a combination of writing tools, nibs, styles, papers, surfaces. This way you'll get the hang of it faster, and will learn all different types and variations simultaneously, with insights from one extending and enhancing the others to get faster learning and extended enjoyment.

 

As for combinations of "orthogonal" tools:

 

A FP uses a nib and a capillary system, thus striking a delicate balance with ink. It needs FP ink or the capillary system will not work and may even clog.

 

A dip pen nib uses just a nib, thus, has not so many worries with surface tension, you can use it with a broader range of inks (including FP, india/china ink, etc...), but for some thicker paints it may be a problem too.

 

A brush, etc... well, you should know or google or find out by experience.

 

In general, you know that one needs to match writing instrument and pigment. In some cases (spray can, ballpoint pen,...) they come already matched, others demand some "decision taking".

 

Same for writing-instrument+pigment combinations and writing surfaces. FP inks are more exacting in the papers you use. But even different spray cans are sold to work on different surfaces. The full combination "writing instrument + ink + writing surface" requires some thinking, some experience, and conscious decision making (you may want to achieve the special effects of otherwise "wrong" combinations).

 

So, by all means, welcome to writing, and my deepest appreciation for willing to learn "beautiful writing". All you should need to do, actually, is decide what kind of "beautiful writing" you want, and then google for how to get it done.

 

The writing sub-forums in FPN should help you get started.

Edited March 20, 2019 by txomsy

[Bo Bo Olson]

Calligraphy also includes the many italic stiff nib calligraphy scripts, so different than the Spenserian/Copperplate you are chasing.

Just saying calligraphy could well be like saying motor vehicle..... instead of motorcycle, car, boat or airplane.

a bad case of GOM.....well I was grumpy when I was young too.

 

Jargon is agreed on definitions with in a field.....makes sure apples are understood, instead of pears.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[AAAndrew]

Lots of good stuff here. I'll just add a bit about inks.

 

Some fountain pen inks do work with dip pens. Some do not. Some from the same manufacturer work and some from that same line do not.

 

For practicing with dip pens, I can't recommend highly enough getting yourself some walnut ink crystals. They're easy to mix (just add water, shake, leave for 20 minutes, and you have ink), and cheaper than any other options.

 

If you want to use fountain pen ink you have lying around, Pelikan 4001 is the most consistently good ink for dip pens I've found from fountain pen inks. Others, like I said above, some colors work, so are too "wet".

 

It's important to realize that with a dip pen you will lay down a significantly wetter line with a great deal more ink than with a fountain pen. You may need to change paper as well. I've had great luck with 25% cotton laser paper. It's a bit more expensive than common copier paper, but not too much, and you can print your own guide lines on it for learning calligraphy.

 

Andrew

[Bo Bo Olson]

A ream of 25 % cotton laser paper should last you a year or two...........as long as you don't do anything foolish........... .like put it in a printer.

[Kloz]

I know this is an old thread but.... I'm looking to print some practice sheets from home. Can anyone help PLEASE?

[Stompie]

1 hour ago, Kloz said:

I know this is an old thread but.... I'm looking to print some practice sheets from home. Can anyone help PLEASE?

Can you be a little more specific as to what it is you are wanting? 

I have links to many places on the internet where you can get guidelines, font practice sheets etc but they are not all in one place so if you can give me a little more detail as in, is it Gothic, Blackletter, Italic, Uncial..........etc. in terms of the script you are wanting to practice. 

[Kloz]

Primarily Copperplate, but would love to try Gothic and Blackletter.

[inkstainedruth]

I don't know about Copperplate, but there are some inexpensive books on calligraphy out there.  

When I took a calligraphy class in college, I learned to make my own practice sheets, and those will vary based on the nib you're using.  You need to know the x-height (the height of letters that don't have any ascenders or descenders, as well as how far up or down the ascenders and descenders go, and then draw the pencil lines (a t-square helps immensely) for your guide lines after figuring out how tall the different parts of the letters have to be for any given style. 

To make the lines, figure out how high the letters will go and then make the lines based on the given x-height (the quick and dirty trick is to mark the relative height in boxes with marks on a piece of scrap paper using the  nib perpendicular to the line, sort of like this -- this would be an x height of five: 

[ ]

  [ ]

[ ]

  [ ]

[ ]

and then make the rule lines for the top of the top box and bottom of the bottom box.

The book I used in that class was IIRC Jacqueline Swaren's Written Letters.  Another really good book is Marc Drogen's Medieval Calligraphy: Its History and Technique (although not cheap if you get a hardcover copy).  You may be able to find those (or other books) at a local library or through Interlibrary loan.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[txomsy]

Plenty of books on Copperplate. Just have a look around and see if any of them calls your fancy.

 

I tend to like "Italic and Copperplate Calligraphy: the basics and beyond" by Eleanor Winters, but there are many, many others.

 

As for guide sheets... just search for "Copperplate Guide Sheets" in Google and you will get a load of them. Just get one and print it.

 

If what you want are ready-made notebooks, I recently found Zara Home carried some made in Taiwan, but there are many more. I know you can also fins some in Amazon, but can't vouch for their paper quality.

[Stompie]

https://jakerainis.com/   

 

Try Jakes site, he has a lot of stuff 

 

Also. IAMPETH - they have a new site up so it will require a little looking around it to find things, but look at the Resource pages for more.

 

http://www.zanerian.com/

 

https://studiomew.com/charles-doner-collection/

 

http://www.zanerian.com/HovisIns.html

 

https://mrmgward.com/

 

https://www.inpursuitofpenmanship.com/blog

 

https://sites.google.com/view/briem/home

 

Have fun going through these!

[Kloz]

So much good information. Thank you for sharing.  It's probably going to take a few days to look through all of it.

 

Thank you.