Recommendations For A Softer Nib For Writing Instead Of Rigid Nibs?

[A Smug Dill]

My Platinum #3776 SF nibs write extremely fine, finer than the #3776 F nib, and so they may not be what @IndigoBOB is after. I haven't tried the #3776 Soft Medium nib, since it is not available with neither the base models of Platinum #3776 Century pen nor the #3776 (non-Century) pens with the briarwood barrels, and I don't want to spend north of US$200 on a fancy demonstrator like the Kumpoo just to get my hands on an SM nib.

[Bo Bo Olson]

There are the rigid nibs, manifold, or nails....then there are semi-nails, like the old P-75 or the modern Pelikan 400/600.

Regular flex, now seems to be thought of as a soft nib, once most makers made a regular flex as regular issue. Companies like Sheaffer in the '50's had rigid, regular flex, and a rare semi-flex.

In I don't do much with nails and semi-nails, I think of regular flex as 'normal'. Now semi-flex, I think of as more a 'soft' nib.

 

If you go into German Ebay, there are Geha piston school pens with a F nib, in regular flex for @ e12-19....unless you have no problems with money....you can throw it away for E50-90 by hitting the Buy Now Idiot button. or buy in the States. Some Germans offer a polished up one for only $89.00

The Geha piston school pen has a serial number on it so it wouldn't be stolen. It is the Best Buy in regular flex. The matching Pelikan 120 will go for E50-70, instead of E12-19.

For semi-flex the best buy is the Geha 790 for @E40-60. A Pelikan 140 @ E90-100. That should be a pen you look for after your regular flex.

 

Esterbrook, a lever sac pen, is $30+ and $10 for a regular flex nib. You should go to the Esterbrook subsection.

Once before every one got hooked on having a collection of Esterbrooks....some 10-7 years ago, the advice to all noobies was get an Esterbrook, or a Safari. Esterbrook beats a Safari all hollow, and you can screw in all sorts of nibs of different widths and flexes.

Some very, very pretty pens. I once had 12 or so, now only two.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[A Smug Dill]

I was just digging through a tray of assorted old (ballpoint, gel ink, felt tip, etc.) pens, and found four new fountain pens, that remained from a box of ten I bought a long time ago as ‘sacrificial’ testers for troublesome inks such as Noodler's Baystate Concord Grape.

 

Now, not quite remembering what the model of those pens are exactly, I looked them up. They are Hero 395 pens, and there were quite a few mentions of the model on FPN:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hero-395+pen+site:www.fountainpennetwork.com

 

In particular, users seemed primarily interested in (or obsessed with?) the steel nib offering some flex.

 

Maybe that's the sort of thing that @IndigoBOB is interested in. I note that the model can still be bought cheaply on eBay.

 

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with those four pens. I think, out of the other six in the box of ten, I gave four away to colleagues at the office, and threw two out in the garbage after using them as testers (primarily) for Noodler's Baystate Concord Grape and Operation Overlord Orange inks years ago. In retrospect, I don't think NOOO would work satisfactorily for my personal preferences in any pen, but I guess I wasn't so taken by the characteristics or apparent performance of the Hero 395 pens that I thought they were worth keeping once they became used goods. A pen with a soft/flex/semi-flex nib that cost me $50 to buy would probably have ‘commanded’ more respect and appreciation from me, as would a cheap Japanese or German pen that wrote decently, but I just cannot get worked up at all about a cheap Chinese pen even if its nib was as flexible as a yogi (and it isn't so on a Hero 395 anyway, as far as I recall).

Edited August 25, 2018 by A Smug Dill

[Bo Bo Olson]

To someone that is use to a nail (1X same width if pressed as a light down stroke, until bent permanently), and is still heavy handed. A semi-nail can be mashed out to 2 X a light down stroke.

In a nail's a nail, be it steel or gold, P-75 or the modern post'97 Pelikan 400/600.

I often wonder when folks talk about soft gold nail nibs, and it appears to me they must be comparing a steel nail to a gold semi-nail. I have had a gold nail....and there was nothing at all soft about that 18k nib.

 

I find there is more than enough difference in the 3 X tine spread max set of regular, semi-flex & the rarer maxi-semi-flex nib set, than to lump them as soft/flex/semi-flex nib. I can see how it could be done.

 

A springy regular flex nib found on vintage American and semi-vintage German nibs '82-97 (or the vintage Pelikan 120 or Geha School pens), including the then and still regular flex Pelikan 200, will if well mashed give a 3 X tine spread from a light down stroke.

One of course can not write with a regular flex nib mashed out to 3 X; that is only a base marker to the pressure needed to mash it that wide.

 

(One should never mash a nib to it's max often. Richard Binder had a great article on metal fatigue in his site.) It gives a nice springy ride. But I hesitate to call that soft in it is not mushy....in for a long time folks here have been using the term soft to also indicate mushy. Lack of quick return of the tines to a narrower state.

There was much said about the 21 K gold Sailor nibs and a few other Japanese nibs labeled soft, that were also described as mushy.

I don't have any Japanese pens. The only one I had was a 70's, Sheaffer nail, made in Japan. Being in Germany bought old used cheap pens............Vintage. (Pre-Chinese on the market time.)

A decade ago all noobies were told get a $15 Esterbrook or a Safari. Everyone got the $15 Esterbrook and a few nibs....Everyone had a collection of them...so soon were $30 and no longer part of the advice given to noobies as get one.

Get one....very pretty, light and nimble pen; lots of different screw in nibs. Go to the Esterbrook section.

 

Pilot did invent a soft/semi-flex modified nib; in one of their more expensive pens. A good poster informed me that it does write semi-flex. Good, then that is where one needs to go if one wants a modern new semi-flex pen. The nib will not last the generations of the un-modified Vintage German nibs, in the half moon cutouts will eventually give in.

I do think folks should have a regular flex pen, perhaps two (M&F) before jumping into Semi-flex.

 

Semi-flex.....well first one needs to have a regular flex nib....which will also go 3 X to compare it too.

Semi-flex takes half as much pressure as a regular flex nib to go 3 X. If one knows the era and country....German, England and the '50's rare Sheaffer is where one hunts.

 

I had read here about semi-flex....here, and was rather noobie about it. I knew the '50-65 Pelikans were semi-flex. At a flea market I ran into my first one a 140, (***) As soon as I pressed the nib to my thumbnail I knew what all the fuss was about..........even before I ever inked it.

 

Semi-flex because of the ease of tine spread is a wet writer. It is robust enough to handle medium Ham Fisted writers. I do suggest getting a regular flex first. I had that and was still ham fisted from 4 decades of plowing the south forty with out the mule, ball point use.

It took me some three months getting my Hand lighter using my semi-flex, not maxing the nib all the time. One can write with a semi-flex maxed...which one can not do with a regular flex which requires so much more pressure to max it's tines than a semi-flex.

A semi-flex needs only 1/2 the pressure to go to 3 X than a regular flex.

 

A maxi-semi-flex half of that or 1/4th the amount of pressure to max to 3 X, than a regular flex.

Maxi is out side of Osmia, not marked and is pure luck. I'd WOG to 1 in 5 in German '50s-70 vintage pens. Luck of the draw. Not for the real Ham Fisted......one of the reasons I suggest getting a regular flex pen first. They are rare....many have no idea what they are.

There have been posters here that were sure their regular flex nib was semi-flex because not only did the tines bend, they spread!!!

Not really, or not that much, but heavy hands will get tine bend and spread...

 

A used Pelikan 200 with a nice springy nib writes with a good clean line, has screw in nibs, will last you the rest of your life........... It is a very good balanced pen, when posted like it should be, and then is not a small pen.

 

 

(***) A real noobie, I had a semi-flex from my return to fountain pens, which I just thought was one of those wet writing nibs, noobies were all chasing. The cork died, before I ran into that 140...so it took me quite a while to find out it was semi-flex. Having used a fountain pen as a child in the '50-60's, wasn't quite as thrilled with a wet writing pen as some just in from Ball Points. But I had an Esterbrook and a P-75 that wrote dryer and to what I thought as normal wetness, and wasn't all that worried about writing wet.

My paper was just 80g copy paper (ignorance is curable once a good poster sent me some 90g).....I could see the wet, 'gleam' ink....but it was not my first time with a fountain pen, so didn't thrill me into back flips, like someone wanting wet gel ink in a fountain pen.

 

I suggest an Esterbrook with a regular flex nib. Or a Pelikan 200 or that Geha school pen, before worrying about semi-flex. They are lots and lots softer than a nail.

I like regular flex a lot for two toned shading inks.

[IndigoBOB]

I wouldn't go vintage unless I could test it at a Pen show and possibly have it ground there by a nibmeister. I've not had good experiences.

 

I wouldn't go used on a Pelikan m20x either. Too many people like to use Mylar.

-------------------

TBH I am sold on the Pelikan m20x and that will be my next pen purchase. I love the smokey quartz version they have and the demonstrator is beauty. I greatly appreciate the feedback that led me to this one. My ignorance would have considered them have rigid steel nibs like the others I've tried. I am really excited for when I get my first Pelikan M-series fountain pen!

-------------------

But in the meantime I have picked up a Platinum PTL-5000a-Black-M and will be receiving that one soon. It's small, and not my typical preference, but I love my Noodler's Charlie pens and have been looking for a congruent FP that is more practicable and of higher quality. Plus I like how the section is thicker towards the barrel with that small landmark shelf that could be good for longer writing sessions especially while the pen's posted. And the nib has some flex/softness to it unlike the 3776. Plus I do like that it comes from one of the Big 3 Japanese companies that have a reputation for reliability and quality many reviews verify. I really liked seeing how consistent and solid the inkflow was on these pens when reviewed.

 

I do want to get a version of the more expensive Maki-e ones suggested to me on this thread ($192 at this point), but that would be well after a Pelikan m205.

--------------------

I also used the remainder of my budget for this round of pen purchases to acquire a Diplomat Magnum-Black-M. Again, on the smaller side, very light, but what I have heard about this pen makes me quite excited, especially for the price. It has a soft steel Jowo nib that is wet and smooth.

The section is narrower, but thickens towards a small shelf unlike the large prohibitive shelf of the Lamy Safari. It's still significantly thicker than a pencil, and the thought of finally having an inexpensive EDC that didn't write dry like a TWSBI or Lamy made me slobber until I finally made the purchase , because that's something I've been looking for since I started. I also have a couple of young nieces and a younger nephew who like fountain pens and I'm always on the lookout for a quality starter pen to allot my budget to get them. So far, I haven't tried anything that seals the deal and I've tried just about all of them.

 

And I like that the Diplomat Magnum doesn't look like a child's toy, while still being very affordable.

----------------------

I'm on the go all the time and these smaller pens offer easy transportability and reliability. Plus I like that they're not too expensive, which would make me apprehensive to take them out in public for fear of loss or theft.

 

But I don't want to get ahead of myself.

 

I'll provide feedback on these purchases.

 

And please, feel free to share and/or continue to share your experiences or suggestions. I may not have purchased what you mentioned directly, but because of the recommendations I have a few more pens on my list ... and this thread may be of some use for others who may have been thinking about making this shift towards less rigid nibs may feel inclined to do so, find something they had been searching for, and waste less time and money on pens that don't lead them further on their pen journey. A lot of people, I myself included, get stuck in the realm of rigid steel nibs and budget pens instead of saving on others that may allow for a better writing experience we haven't had to motivate us forward.

 

I appreciate all your help in helping me breech this threshold with less ignorance allowing me to hone my budget

[Bo Bo Olson]

I wouldn't go used on a Pelikan m20x either. Too many people like to use Mylar. ?????Not in Germany.

What and How???

Fritz Schimpf

is where I bought my last 200, the marbled brown. Ordered from the states it will be cheaper than the @ E85/$95 I paid for it, in you do not have to pay the 19% sales tax.

The new demonstrator is more expensive in it is a LE.

 

The Diplomat will be a nail. Or I'd have more of them. I sold a very light well balanced Diplomat nail. The only Diplomat I have is my wifes, that she will never use. It too is a nail.

[IndigoBOB]

I wouldn't go used on a Pelikan m20x either. Too many people like to use Mylar. ?????Not in Germany.

What and How???

Fritz Schimpf

is where I bought my last 200, the marbled brown. Ordered from the states it will be cheaper than the @ E85/$95 I paid for it, in you do not have to pay the 19% sales tax.

The new demonstrator is more expensive in it is a LE.

 

The Diplomat will be a nail. Or I'd have more of them. I sold a very light well balanced Diplomat nail. The only Diplomat I have is my wifes, that she will never use. It too is a nail.

 

 

lol, yah, but that's because German pens are wide, smooth, and wet... The way they should be in my biased opinion lol.

 

I ordered a Parker 51 from a well known p51 lover, and I received a nib with tipping material that was so ground down I first of all couldn't feel the nib cuz it was overly smoothed, but also it had barely any tipping material left. He was nice and let me return it, but gave me a bad impression of what I could expect possibly if I wasn't careful : (

------------------------

Diplomats are nails for the most part. I tried the Aero. Beautiful pen, but not my preference in terms of shape and weight, but it had a beautifully smoothed nib OOTB; a Jowo I believe: Rigid like a nail.

 

But Diplomat puts different, more flexible, Jowo steel nibs on the Magnum (and possibly the Traveller) that reviewers are saying significantly reminds them of the feel of a gold nib (demonstrated at 6:45):

And I'll be able to verify it when it comes in the mail this week. The people at Goulet recommended I give it a try for that reason. I didn't prefer the size and weight originally and declined to pursue the suggestion, but then I watched this Pens & Tea review

and after reading others with congruent praise I had no reason not to order one for $25 (shipping included). It stretched the budget, but I felt it had potential with regards to what I need and can put to good use.

Edited August 26, 2018 by IndigoBOB

[Bo Bo Olson]

Ah, Ha!!! Another wonderful day on FPN, where I learn something new!

 

Hurray...a modern semi-flex with an affordable price. Hell, a modern semi-flex period.

 

Great.....

I do have enough vintage semi-flex, but if I didn't I'd line up to buy it.

 

I have often regretted selling my other light, well balanced, old metal Diplomat pen; but it was a nail, and not going to get much use. The other Diplomat I have is my wife's with the stirrup clip and a jumping horse in the final. Silver plated.

Some day I'll get that picture into Imgur...it had been in Randsom bucket.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[IndigoBOB]

Ah, Ha!!! Another wonderful day on FPN, where I learn something new!

 

Hurray...a modern semi-flex with an affordable price. Hell, a modern semi-flex period.

 

Great.....

I do have enough vintage semi-flex, but if I didn't I'd line up to buy it.

 

I have often regretted selling my other light, well balanced, old metal Diplomat pen; but it was a nail, and not going to get much use. The other Diplomat I have is my wife's with the stirrup clip and a jumping horse in the final. Silver plated.

Some day I'll get that picture into Imgur...it had been in Randsom bucket.

 

 

lol trust me, I was just as dismissive lol. The Goulet employee I was talking with had to mention the Diplomat Magnum twice after I shot down the suggestion initially.

 

I don't want to get ahead of myself on how it works, but I liked that she was insistent because the pen does have what I'm looking for for a great price with reviews to verify, which won me over for the purchase

[Honeybadgers]

the custom 74/91 and 3776 soft fines are all bouncy, not flexy. They CAN flex if you press on them, but it takes a LOT of conscious effort. They are both affordable and very bouncy

[sandy101]

 

I've been taking a look at those platinums. I love this one with the white rabbit:

 

.It was nice to hear that platinum made gold nibs that weren't rigid. The 3776 has always been high on my list, but the rigidity of its gold nib has delayed that purchase for me.

 

 

 

 

 

The modern make-I do not have the same nibs as the #3776. The 14K nib on the #3776 is more rigid than the 18k nib on the modern make-I.

 

I think platinum have a "soft-fine" but it isn't often seen at all in the UK, unless you import them from elsewhere.

[Honeybadgers]

 

 

lol, yah, but that's because German pens are wide, smooth, and wet... The way they should be in my biased opinion lol.

 

I ordered a Parker 51 from a well known p51 lover, and I received a nib with tipping material that was so ground down I first of all couldn't feel the nib cuz it was overly smoothed, but also it had barely any tipping material left. He was nice and let me return it, but gave me a bad impression of what I could expect possibly if I wasn't careful : (

------------------------

Diplomats are nails for the most part. I tried the Aero. Beautiful pen, but not my preference in terms of shape and weight, but it had a beautifully smoothed nib OOTB; a Jowo I believe: Rigid like a nail.

 

But Diplomat puts different, more flexible, Jowo steel nibs on the Magnum (and possibly the Traveller) that reviewers are saying significantly reminds them of the feel of a gold nib (demonstrated at 6:45):

And I'll be able to verify it when it comes in the mail this week. The people at Goulet recommended I give it a try for that reason. I didn't prefer the size and weight originally and declined to pursue the suggestion, but then I watched this Pens & Tea review

and after reading others with congruent praise I had no reason not to order one for $25 (shipping included). It stretched the budget, but I felt it had potential with regards to what I need and can put to good use.

 

I was a little disappointed. I found my magnum prone to drying out. it also feels like it's cheaply made, it creaks if you bend it a little (and boy does it BEND), the barrel does not unscrew smoothly...

 

And the feed is non-removable for cleaning.

 

I am probably going to just give my magnum away. I was sorely disappointed with it.

 

The nib is in no way flexible or even soft. it's not absolutely rigid, but it's not even close to the softer steel nibs I've used. It also was fairly unimpressive for a JoWo nib.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[IndigoBOB]

 

I was a little disappointed. I found my magnum prone to drying out. it also feels like it's cheaply made, it creaks if you bend it a little (and boy does it BEND), the barrel does not unscrew smoothly...

 

And the feed is non-removable for cleaning.

 

I am probably going to just give my magnum away. I was sorely disappointed with it.

 

The nib is in no way flexible or even soft. it's not absolutely rigid, but it's not even close to the softer steel nibs I've used. It also was fairly unimpressive for a JoWo nib.

 

 

I appreciate your input.

 

I had poor luck with the Platinum-PTL-5000a. Even with the tines aligned it was scratchy on left strokes and basically any in the direction towards the 3rd quadrant was edgy as heck. The feedback was kind of nice and I liked that nuance, but I returned the 5000a.

 

Besides the nib I like the 5000a and how it feels, but I don't love it. It reminds me of a Noodler's Charlie, but better of course (besides the nib problem). But I'd prefer the 18k Maki-e version that is a little thicker, which would be just right, and I'd get it from Nibs.com who can tune it prior.

-------------------

But once the PTL-5000a failed to meet my expectations I was considering simply returning the Diplomat Magnum and just going with a Pelikan m20x.

 

I have experience with the Pelikan m20x, loved it, but I didn't consider it since my ignorant perception at the time was that the steel nib would be rigid like a Jowo and at that time I preferred to just try out a $15 Jowo and put it into a Jinhao, PenBBS, or Ranga I already had.

 

The Pelikan m20x is what I'm looking for across the board, so I don't want to waste money on something else, when I'd honestly just be using the Pelikan m20x, which is stretching the budget as it is.

 

I prefer to only have 1 FP inked at a time right now if it's a solid pen and carry it with me with a Ballpoint (with easyflow9000 of course), and a Gel/rollerball pen (I love the Gelly Roll 08 Royal Blues which are permanent, wet, and a deep blue Indigo, and I want to try the Schmidt Rollerball pen with the P812x refill), and I carry that assortment of 3 pens that actually fit comfortably/perfectly in my Franklin-Christoph 2pen case and I love that.

 

So at this point I'll be purchasing the m20x in a few days... Very excited because I feel like that's a bullseye instead of these other pens that are close but no cigar .

[Bo Bo Olson]

When I buy a pen, I get the picture also.....in I take bad photos.

This is actually silver plated, but is the Diplomat I was talking about. There is also the exact same model with a tennis racket clip and tennis finial.

A nice well balanced, light metal pen....nail nib.

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[IndigoBOB]

When I buy a pen, I get the picture also.....in I take bad photos.

This is actually silver plated, but is the Diplomat I was talking about. There is also the exact same model with a tennis racket clip and tennis finial.

A nice well balanced, light metal pen....nail nib.

 

 

That's a beauty!

 

It's quite elegant : )