Why Don't Companies Make Compatible 3Rd Party Converters And Cartridges?

[lisq199]

OK, first of all, I know the title is not 100% correct, because Monteverde makes Lamy compatible cartridges, but that's the only example I know of. So why don't we see more products like that? I would love to see a higher capacity Platinum or Pilot converter, and I can't be alone on this.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Why should I make my converter and pen spike/nozzle fit other companies cartridges and converters? I lose money needed to survive.

The company makes best money selling cartridges that fit it's pen...often only it's pen, like a Lamy. Same with a converter...even if by chance a Lamy converter will fit another pen.

 

Many of the pen companies do have overlap from their cartridge to others.

I normally buy when I do Pelikan cartridges, in I live in Germany and there is little Parker influence. I really don't worry about Waterman cartridges in I buy bottle, nor being a piston head, worry about converters much.

Both have overlap from larger other pen companies. Such as I think Aurora takes Parker cartridges...would therefore take a Parker converter....but which one? In Parker makes thick and thin pens.

 

I think international cartridges fit a quite a few companies.

 

Schmidt makes a number of converters to fit a number of pens. They have too in Schmidt don't make it's own pen.

 

One just has to find a thread where they list whose converters fits which companies pens....in there is overlap.

 

If so make sure it has a little plastic ball or spring in it to break vapor lock.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[dapprman]

Platinum do actually produce an adapter to allow you to use international short, and depending on barrel length, international cartridge converters.

[Mech-for-i]

first of all , before asking for that one perhaps need to ask all the Mfr to sit down and actually come up with a standard , and tha's not going to happen ... No less like Bo Bo stated, its very much a case of why .. bother ... and its not like its needed either

[jar]

I would love to see a higher capacity Platinum or Pilot converter, and I can't be alone on this.

 

Probably not alone but certainly in a small enough group to be a niche market at best. Second, the size of a cartridge or converter is dependent on the inner diameter and length of the pen it will be used in and no one but Pilot has control over the inner diameter and length of Pilot pen.

 

Ask your self why the makers themselves don't make bigger cartridges and converters for their pens?

[Bo Bo Olson]

They can sell more cartridges if a tad small. Fit more pens if a tad thin.

 

There were and I don't know if there is still the 1.60ml Sheaffer cartridge....which is as large as a 149 and bigger than all but the 400nn Pelikan pens for volume.

The short international cartridges tell you it's time to get a new cartridge for the empty one, or put one in your pocket.....so that's not the end of the world. 0.74 each= 1.48 or slightly more than a MB 146 or Pelikan 1000's ink load (1.45?ml).

 

Actually I think from experience way back when not everyone had a color TV, it's easier to be left dry with a large cartridge than two small ones.The small ones at least give you warning.

 

Converters lose 1/3 of their length with the screw. compared to cartridges...............and are thin. You are getting bottle price filling of an international sized cartridge.

 

Even Piston pens lose 1/3 of their volume inside the barrel, but they are wider.

Pelikan 200/400 @1.25; 600/800 @ 1.35..........There are different amounts listed in different places....much different....so someone has to be very wrong.

I was here five or so years ago when the regular piston pen holds more than cartridge myth was broken....and broken all to hell so I really wonder how Nitch pens got it's measurements.

 

I don't know how much various converters hold....but many complain about Pilot ones being too small. I have some converters, but really don't use them much, being a Piston Head.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Driften]

The Pilot converters people complain about being too small are the con-40 and con-50 ones. They hold less then a international short cartridge. The solution though is to just refill a pilot cartridge that holds much more or use a now discontinued con-20 converter. People don't complain about the con-70 being too small but it only fits Pilots larger pens.

 

For many companies the cartridge they sell hold more then most converters. Refilling a cartridge is not hard to do and normally has less issues with ink flow then converters. It's just a converter is more convenient then refilling, but not as convenient then swapping in a new cartridge. That said I like piston fillers the best

[rochester21]

Broad answer: corporations can do a lot of good things for their clients, but in real life they only do the things which are perceived as beneficial to their business.

 

Monteverde may produce lamy cartridges, but only because lamy sells more pens and the bosses at monteverde probably thought that it wouldn`t damage their company in any way. Lamy on the other hand definitely would not bother making monteverde-specific accessories, since it would definitely be an investment into helping a competitor which would not benefit them in any way.

[Mew]

OK, first of all, I know the title is not 100% correct, because Monteverde makes Lamy compatible cartridges, but that's the only example I know of. So why don't we see more products like that? I would love to see a higher capacity Platinum or Pilot converter, and I can't be alone on this.

Pilot Con-70 is the highest capacity convertor in the market.

 

If I was a manufacturer, my first line of thought would be: why should I care about whether my accessories fit other makers items or not.

 

Also, at least I expect pen companies to make accessories which fully support their own pens. It may support others too, but that's just a bonus and not something that was intended.

[MomoShinChan]

Manufacturers are trying to get you to buy into their system. Why make it so you can easily switch to another manufacturers? Also, why make it difficult on yourself to try to fit with another manufacturers when you are not the one deciding how their pens and your converters fit together? To me, it just seems like a lose - lost situation.

[Ted A]

Switching is a problem too. If,say, Parker were to begin making pens that used standard international short cartridges they would then have to make two incompatible cartridge models. In perpetuity, blue ink in the old cartridge model and the same blue in the new model increasing their costs

[Bexinthecity247]

I've noticed some Parker will take Lamy cartridges (and I used my Lamy converter.

As a side note, for me, I look for a converter straight away when I buy a new cartridge filled pen. Even if the initial cost is pricey, I have enough bottles of ink to last me a lifetime (and with my obsession for ink bottles, I'll only be obtaining more).

[Bo Bo Olson]

There is hidden away somewhere a thread on which converter fits which pens.

[chromantic]

They don't need to because they sell their inks in bottles so anyone can use them in any pen.

[XYZZY]

and its not like its needed either

 

Not picking on you Mech-for-i. Others have mentioned a similar things, your's just happened jump out as I was looking for something to quote...

 

RANT ON...

 

I don't know that it's not needed. I do agree with the "why bother?" sentiment from manufacturers.

 

Standards are great for consumers. From the tech industry I used to think of examples like "Standards are why my Apple laptop connects to WiFi on my Buffalo router at home and Cisco router at work". Or why I can upgrade the memory or replace the drive or get a bigger monitor for the computer at work.

 

But standards are far more fundamental, as a mentor (also in tech) pointed out to me. Clothes sizes were a great invention. Imagine NOT being able to walk into a store, knowing your chest and neck measurements, and being able to buy a shirt. Or imagine NOT being able to buy shoes knowing your shoe size. There was a time, not too long ago actually, when "buying clothes" meant visiting a tailor (or cobbler). And for the majority that couldn't afford that: back then that was an important part of the job for mothers and wives, but which kept them chained to the house. These standards have fundamentally benefitted our civilization.

 

Or other standards: I take for granted that when I buy a sofa that it will fit through the front door of the house. Door sizes are a standard. And a couple years ago when the garbage disposal gave out, I learned that I just unscrew the old one, buy a new one from the hardware store, and screw it in: the mount under the sink and the plumbing are standards. I could go on but I'm already too wordy.

 

I've only been interested in FPs for a couple of months. I've watched way too many youtube reviews in that time. Just scrolling through video reviews it's interesting to me that I haven't found anybody with critical reviews of converters. A pen reviewer will express opinions on converters if they're reviewing a pen that uses them, but otherwise converters get no love. Which is weird to me... a pen reviewer might spend a while talking about the filling mechanism on a pen that has it's own filling mechanism: discussing it, demonstrating it, comparing it to others. Build the filling mechanism into the pen and its worth several minutes of critique, but leave the exact same function to a converter and it's basically an afterthought.

 

There's something wrong with that missing there. You and I lose. It's not wrong for the businesses. I agree that for them the correct response is "why bother?".

 

Maybe (just maybe) if all the pens used the same converter, then that would be enough of a market for creative entrepreneurs to start building better converters. If Pilots and Lamys and MBs and Parkers and Sailors and Platinums and ... you name it... all used the same converter, then maybe there would be creative entrepreneurs selling filler mechanisms that haven't been thought of yet.

 

And that's a whole new business opportunity for somebody.

 

...RANT OFF

Edited August 14, 2018 by XYZZY

[calvin_0]

well standardization didnt happen in the fountain pen industry is most likely because there is no reason too.. the early day of technology is the same was well, but than WW2 happen and Arpanet was in development and that force all the major tech company to make compatible component module in order to make networking between computer to work and slowly an industry standard was developed...

 

other standard was develop because there was a reason too.. without a proper reason, there will never be develop.. for example, nib size was standardize in western fountain pen, many pen accept a #6 or #5 nib, that is because only few company make the nib for all the fountain pen company.. so that become a standard.. but not for asian fountain pen.. cause asian fountain pen make thier own nib.. so there is no reason to standardize..

 

there is a standard sized converter and cartridges available but hardly anyone uses it because a lot of the western pen company also make their own ink.. these company like exclusivity and plan the mindset of "our ink is better for our pen" on consumer, so by having none standard converter and cartridges, they cornered the consumer into their brand.. and that is the point.. they make more money by selling not only the pen but the ink as well, and they cant do that with a standardize converter and cartridges...

[Corona688]

Maybe (just maybe) if all the pens used the same converter, then that would be enough of a market for creative entrepreneurs to start building better converters. If Pilots and Lamys and MBs and Parkers and Sailors and Platinums and ... you name it... all used the same converter, then maybe there would be creative entrepreneurs selling filler mechanisms that haven't been thought of yet.

 

Someone came through FPN a few months ago with a prototype for a magnetic-filling piston. Getting rid of the screw and all the space it takes ought to make a converter a lot more efficient.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Corona688

[Torrilin]

You can definitely buy more than just montverde cartridges to fit Lamy pens. Online.de and I think at least one other common German school pen brand works. Lamy carts are fairly huge, and due to the design it’s easy to make them fit pens that can take international long cartridges. So I don’t think I’ve seen any German knock offs that skip that feature. Naturally it’s useless with my Kaweco Sport pens, but it works well with many pens that take international carts.

 

The Pilot CON-70 fits the Kanuko. Not sure if it works in any of the other Pilot school pens. Or you can refill the carts. Pilot carts are some of the most refill friendly due to the wide mouth. I think Platinum carts are also fairly refill friendly. Not Pilot level but nicer than the average American cartridge. Sailor carts are on the small side and have a rather pesky design but the nibs tend to be nice.

 

Mostly US pens embrace the razor blade model of making money so they’re rather annoying. I’m generally an anti fan of US pen makes, but there should be plenty of posters who enjoy them and have good suggestions.

 

In general if ink capacity is an actual problem, I’d suggest trying a piston filler like a TWSBI Eco. It’s not necessarily better than cartridges. You’re making different trade offs in design terms. Not better, not worse just different.