"wet Noodle" : Variance In Definitions Or Application Of This Term

[ReadyFireAim]

In order to have some reference points, I like to call a Zebra-G a 5 (five) and a Brause Rose a 0 (zero) on the softness scale.

(Any pen you have to hold up from flexing would be a negative number...Maybe??? )

 

Dip pens are more consistant and both of these nibs are modern, readily available, well known & inexpensive.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[AAAndrew]

Is higher number more or less flexible? (I've only used the Zebra once, it was a kind of stiff firm-flex on my scale if I remember right)

 

I really should get some modern nibs for comparison.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thank you very much Andrew....could be at least one of my Telegraphers may then be using a Western Union nib, even though they are working for train companies.

 

""""The worst culprit I have ever come across has to be Aurora, whose understanding of the word 'flexible' is quite honestly a joke."""

Until the mid 2000's Aurora made semi-flex nibs.................I had expected them to bring back the old nib under the 'new modern ....Flex name.

 

Thank you Uncial for this info; """Pilot 823's modified FA nib which is a semi-flex in my book that probably approaches flexible (I really like this one)."""

 

I do have enough semi&maxi-semi-flexes, and Easy Full Flex superflex, that I'll not be getting it, but it's good to have that in mind.

I do have enough nib widths and flexes not to need any more pens (35 out of @ 45).......I'm sure eventually; not necessarily this year...if something grand pops up cheap.... I'll buy another used, there for cheaper vintage pen again.....but new pens are $$$$. So I'll never be trying that Pilot 823 modified FA, nib....but can say....yep, there is a modern semi/maxi pen to be had.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[ReadyFireAim]

Is higher number more or less flexible?

Adding numbers might confuse things unnecessarily

 

How about just the Zebra-G to Brause Rose scale?

 

Example...

I would rate the Hunt 101 nib three-quarters of the way up the Zebra/Rose scale.

(for softness only because the tip of the Hunt 101 is X-Acto knife sharp & unlike either the Rose or Zebra-G)

 

For less than $5, people could have a real idea of what the other person is talking about when discussing softness.

[AAAndrew]

Nail bender, that sounds about as good as any other system. You’d have to allow for examples outside the range, like Rose++, or Zebra-, but at least people would have a reference point. You probably need at least one more in between.

 

Bo Bo, the train companies all had their own nibs as well. I have ones from big companies like Santa Fe and the Chicago & Northwest Railway (C&NWRY), as well as smaller, regional lines like The Lehigh Valley RR Co.

 

I’d go in that direction.

[AAAndrew]

Bo Bo, I looked more closely at my inventory, and one of my railroad nibs is from the Denver & Rio Grande Railway (D&RG RR) which was founded in 1870, and changed names by adding "Western" (D & RGW RR) to its name in 1880. So I have proof that a local, western railroad had pens imprinted with their name pre-1881. The pen I have is a falcon, and most likely made by Esterbrook. Their story is pretty interesting. They got in armed battles with the Atchison Topeka and the Santa Fe where the Santa Fe railroad hired Dodge City gunslingers, including Bat Masterson, to defend a roundhouse.

 

It was in Wikipedia, so it must be true.

 

And while I'm sure my sample is probably not representative, most of my railroad pens are falcons.

[Intensity]

Super interesting information about the history and evolution of flexible nibs. Indeed the dip nibs are usually the way to go, it’s just that they, well, require dipping—not as satisfying as filling a pen with a favorite ink and writing away for pages without dipping. I wonder if it’s the property of dip nib material and thinness that makes them generally softer for flexible varieties than the gold vintage flexible nibs, particularly with hairline-thin points. Maybe the gold alloy ones just have to be thicker to maintain shape and structural integrity over time vs. steel or brass nibs? Just a wild guess.

[ReadyFireAim]

Nail bender, that sounds about as good as any other system. You’d have to allow for examples outside the range, like Rose++, or Zebra-, but at least people would have a reference point. You probably need at least one more in between.

 

I'd put the Leonardt-G smack-dab in the middle but few people know what that one is.

 

My favorite nib right now.

https://andersonpens.com/leonardt-general-handwriting-dip-pen-nib/

(Not to be confused with the Zebra-G...They are very different)

<Bottom to Top>....Firm...Medium...Soft

[AAAndrew]

Ok, Nail Bender, I see I have my three to work off of.

 

 

As a material, spring steel is significantly better at flexing and springing back then gold or even stainless steel. The old dip nibs were made of very thin, high-quality spring steel tempered to just the right degree to get the flex they wanted. If you read the descriptions of how pens were made you see that each type of pen was rolled and tempered to get the specific characteristics the wanted from that particular style. https://thesteelpen.com/the-steel-pen-table-of-contents/how-steel-pens-were-made-in-1857-and-1890/

Edited June 1, 2018 by AAAndrew

[Bo Bo Olson]

Andrew it was true, in my book I have a real man who was leading the fight against Masterson and my murderous heroine's henchman (the first definition of the word, stirrup holder ... actually he's often just trailing along with a slight smile on his face to what the hell she's going to do next.); who didn't exist, but because of him, I get to put in the Sutton-Taylor feud in Texas, and a bit of Billy the Kid back before the Lincoln County war.

 

Young Billy( then just a cowboy (had been a 'noobie' member of a rustler band, but gave it up, after the gang stole back the Sheriff's daughter's horse Billy stole, and made him look a big fool. ) was flirting with Chisom's well chaperoned daughter. before the Lincoln County war. Chisom allowed him self to be arrested and held in Santa Fe during the war so he wasn't shot at. Billy, laid a bill for him and his men to Chisom, who said, he'd paid enough. So Billy stole a few horses to make up for it......from there being a horse thief was much more exciting and better paying than going back to making Cheese or cowboying. He became the leader of a horse thief gang,

 

Pete Maxwell notified Pat Garrett that Billy was hanging around his sister/daughter. So Pat Garrett tied up and gagged the girl in her bedroom and waited in the dark for Billy to come in the door. Murdering Billy before her eyes. There was no knife, there was no gun on Billy....he'd come for loving. Maxwells's sister/daughter had to get married very soon after, so Billy had at least one son.

 

Pat Garret had to buy so many drinks for the Legislature to get his reward money.,....he may even have lost money on the deal.

Everyone knew everyone of any account at least by sight....in the saloon society, but they were never friends...pure Hollywood. Garret got murdered himself some decades later in 1908, shot in his buggy. It was a different political murder.

 

Bat Masterson was a lawman, and had to surrender the roundhouse in Pueblo (he had stole Pueblo's state militia's cannon so was fairly set at the roundhouse, but his gun fighters got run out of the RR Station by men with bayonets. Only one was killed there and him almost by accident.) to a legal writ.....Bat never took a bribe of $25,000 as rumored. There were two RR wars between those two RR's.

 

Masterson only killed 5-6 men....not the 30 someone told an Eastern Newspaper fool reporter.

 

Dave Cook ( a forgotten early major lawman. who ran the Rocky Mountain Detective Assassination, a telegraph network of share the wealth of the reward lawmen...worth looking at in Wiki) and Pat Desmond, (also once well known; and not just as one of the 'Irish' Army that was captured invading Canada right after the Civil War) Marshal of Pueblo captured back the RR stations from south of Denver to Pueblo which was where they were fighting that war......In the first RR war The D&RG lost the race to Raton Pass, so would take well over a decade before they could get into N.M. Narrow track D&RG won the Royal Gorge war, so were able to go to silver rich Leadville and a few other places in the mountains.

 

Do look up 'Dangerous Dan Tucker' too, while you are at it; a man who'd rather shoot than not, Killed least 16 men and one prostitute that was involved with ambushing him. Lots of other gunfights. ...They have much more on Wiki than when I dug for info about him.

 

Great Info on the nibs....I can work that into the scene... real easy, replace Esterbrook with (D&RG RR) and have him open up a brand new 1/4 gross box of (D & RGW RR). Thanks again Andrew.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[FarmBoy]

Putting a label on a nib such as indicated here (BB--sorry you have to many for me to keep straight) is like describing the taste of water. Ask 10 people and you will get 11 descriptions and all of them will be wrong.

[Bo Bo Olson]

A long time ago, I saw here someone who used an electric scale, to measure his 10 or 11 superflex nibs. None were the same. They went from what I call Easy Full Flex, through Wet Noodles, to what might be what John Sowbda(sp the British nib grinder) calls a Weak Kneed Wet Noodle.

I could see roughly dividing those nibs into 3 inexact classes.

As Mauricio said, in Superflex there is variance.......but we seek clarification to what we have, with out buying 25 superflex rated pens.

 

Many wonder did I get enough flex for my buck, is there more to be had...I have a Superflex...don't sound near as good as I have a Wet Noodle.....it don't matter if it can be well used or not. Many have fast cars in a 55Mph state.

I don't fancy at all outside of an occasional decender. Yep, don't take my wet noodle out of second gear.

 

I am satisfied with my system, it's close to horseshoes, closer than hand grenades to what flex rate I get ... and from regular flex up....to Wet Noodle....as stated I have no Weak Kneed Wet Noodle nor seek one.

 

(In dip pens I have nibs of lower flex that might well be Weak Kneed Wet Noodles if in a fountain pen, then I have middling and for me the Hunt 99-100-101, ...turn on the room fan and they start flexing in the cup.

Dip pen nibs can't really be compared to fountain pen superflex nibs, in they can be much, much more flexible.

 

Since that poster showed the flex range he measured on an electric scale; many have disagreed exactly how to measure on an electric scale, so that has not become a system.

 

If one does the Pilot half moon grind to an Ahab, one gets an Easy Full Flex to my subjunctive '1/2 less' grading system. With out the half moons, an Ahab is a semi-flex pressure superflex, and that is heavy going, so I do recommend modifying your Ahab. Modified at Easy Full Flex, the Ahab then becomes a fun nib.

 

One of these days.....been saying that for too long, I'll learn to write....with out looking in the book, and then can worry about snapback.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson