Wet And Dry Inks

[Waltz For Zizi]

Hello! I'm interested to know what are some dry inks out there. I use pelikan 4001 when I need a dry ink, but I read somewhere that lamy inks are drier. Is this true?

 

And as a wet/lubricated ink I use Iroshizuku. Are there any inks that are wetter?

 

Also I have two more questions:

How are the Montblanc and Diamine inks, wet or dry?

Edited March 25, 2018 by Waltz For Zizi

[Bo Bo Olson]

Lamy is not as far as I can tell drier than 4001.

MB is towards the middle.

 

90g or heavier laser paper will make a cleaner line.

Rhoda or Clairefountaine Triumph, will do so even more......in if 4001 is too wet for you it lays on the paper.

[mannschott]

I think the dryness of inks varies within brands. I find Lamy Black to be less dry than Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black. Lamy Blue is quite dry. Is it drier than Pelikan Blue? I'm not sure. I don't find Lamy Petrol dry at all, nor has Lamy Turquoise struck me as particularly dry.

[martinbir]

Yes, inks from any manufacturer's range will have different qualities. I have about 50 Diamines and generally they are wet, but there are a few exceptions such as Damson, Tyrian Purple and Presidential Blue which come to mind.

 

If you are prepared for the extra care needed (don't let them dry out in the pen, do clean frequently) then Iron Gall inks could be your best bet. Traditionally blue black, but some, such as KWZ, now do more colours.

 

From personal experience, Rohrer and Klinger Salix works well (a fairly pale greyish colour),but their Scabiosa (an unusual purple black) is too dry. ESSRI is well thought of and very permanent. A recent bottle of Pelikan 4001 Blue Black (mildly IG in Europe) is going well.

 

If what you are simply after a fast drying time, then you could also consider Noodlers Bernanke Blue or Black.

 

All above are available in UK and most are widely stocked throughout Europe.

[almoore]

Hi

 

I don't think wet and dry inks is a precise science I've used Diamine in my Vac 700R and its flow is perfect, in my Kaweco it hard starts, skips, dry's out etc. I swapped it out with Herbin and the Kaweco's behave really well.

 

I know we can say roughly what is dry vs what is wet but often times it's the combination of nib and ink that decides for us.

 

However, I would encourage you to try KWZ (I use standard ink not IG so can't comment on IG); they have a beautiful range of colours and all the ones I have tried have been really nice. Herbin is also very good and is my go to ink when a pen doesn't behave and they've never let me down; finally Waterman, the range of colours isn't huge but it's not expensive and I've never had a bad result from it.

 

Hope this helps

 

Al

[ENewton]

It used to be possible to generalize and say that iron gall inks are dry, but I don't think that generalization applies to the KWZ inks. The one KWZ iron gall ink I have tried, Violet #3, is definitely on the wet side. It's a beautiful ink, but a person who bought it expecting it to be dry because of its iron gall content might be disappointed.

[pajaro]

I usually prefer dry inks, being left handed, and not wanting my left hand wandering into wet ink. Pelikan 4001 and Montblanc inks work for me to dry reasonably quickly and to write a relatively thin line that feels controllable.

 

Sometiimes I feel the need for a wet ink, as in the case of a Waterman Kultur that dries up capped between uses in the same day. I used a Sailor ink, because Sailor has a reputation for being wet. I don't know the color, because the bottle and box are in Japanese, which I do not read. Seems wet. The pen remains moist capped between uses, and there are no hard starts with this Sailor ink, one of their blues or purples. The Kultur writes right off after resting capped overnight.

[Donald2]

I use Waterman Serenity Blue in my medium and fine nib Pelikans and in my fine nib Waterman Phileas and they all write nice and wet.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I got rid of my Waterman blue....for DA Royal blue a well lubricated saturated ink....which is wetter, and has a shade of that 'royal' purple in it. I had a good, but dry nibbed pen that Waterman blue did improve, but DA Royal Blue, was more lubricated, so the nib worked easier.

It is not an ink I reach for often, in I want shading inks, which tend to be less saturated, so I get the two tones on 90g or better laser or similar papers.

But for that pen, I'll reach for the DA Royal Blue........if I remember.

 

Once before Noodler's Waterman was considered a wet ink.....In fact I'd gotten that Waterman blue, because I had a slightly dry pen. Now I read Noodler users consider a Waterman ink as dry. So that tells you....a lot.

 

Pelikan makes a wetter nib, because it makes a dry ink....that brings the writing experience into the middle.

Waterman made a dryer nib because it had a wetter ink.

Lamy also matches it's inks to the Lamy feed. Do try some Lamy inks with your Lamies.

Each company that makes both pens and inks try to match them for best results.

MB makes an ink that is somewhat dry, but shading towards the middle.

R&K makes some dry inks. It's Verdura, is a very fine green-green shading ink that ='s MB's Irish Green. It's two IG inks are relatively dry.

It's Alt Grungold is a special ink, similar to few if any.....that you need.

I have a few DA shading inks, Golf is a pastel green shading ink, that does not 'match' up well verses other green inks.....but as a stand alone shading ink is worth having.

 

Because of the below, when testing that expensive Gmund paper samples, I tested some 14 different green, greenish inks.....that I bought in the course of a year.

 

It is too bad that Pelikan stopped making the 4001, Brilliant Green for a darker one; which I've not got yet. I do have a full bottle and the remains of an other old discontinued ink. I bought a half a bottle of that green on sale......after all I was chasing purple and didn't need a 'green' ink. Over the next year I bought some 14 different green, or greenish inks. & not a single purple one.

 

For green-green shading inks, I had R&K's Verdura a nose in front of MB Irish (others like Irish a tad more....so call them even.) and a neck in front of 4001 Brilliant Green. There is just enough difference that all three are good to have.

So if you see any 4001 Brilliant Green on your Ebay, buy a bottle.

I am lucky with 2 bottles of R&K's Verdura.

G von Farber-Castell Moss Green is a nice ink....but at that price, will never be used as much as I could.

 

R&K Sepia is a dry ink....but be careful and clean your pen very, very well, in they tell you it don't play well with any ink.

The dry 4001 Brilliant Brown, is sort of reddish. MB Toffee a good shading brown ink.......humm I see I don't have enough brown inks.

DA Mississippi is a saturated brown.

I like their Concrete, that looks like a flight line as dawn struggles to break after a rain.

 

 

Many who complain how wet their Pelikans are are using Noodler or other wet inks, on a wet nib.

 

A wider nib a true B, will deposit more ink than an F.....will perhaps slide over the paper smoother too.

Nib and paper influence ink performance.

One should have dry pens, medium pens, and wet pens....along with an assortment of good to better papers, to properly judge an ink.

 

Half the fun is matching pen, paper and ink for better results...............and every once in a while you end up with the Holy Grail...........perfect nib, perfect paper and perfect ink.................which will change with any difference.

Could change if the day is humid.

 

Do write that down, do put that in a perfect folder..........

Do as I tell ya, not as I did. Sigh Cubed.

 

Once Lamy Turquoise was the turquoise all turquoise inks were compared too. I like Waterman South Sea Blue, a turquoise ...with some new funny name. It too was once a basic ink that one had to have.

 

Do check prices your self ....in 'everyone' said how expensive the now discontinued Cd'A inks were. They were much more expensive in the States than in Europe.....so I lucked out when they discontinued their old cheap inks; got half of them.....kick my self I didn't get them all.

Their new ones are way too expensive for me to even think of.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[pajaro]

When you come to understand all this about nib sizes, wet and dry nibs, wet and dry inks and papers, experience will lead you to a happy medium, but I think you have to experience it to really get it.

[Precise]

I like my pens on the dry side. Of course narrower lines (F or EF) seem dryer, with any ink.

 

Pelikan is the dryest I've found. Today, for the first time, I filled a pen with Visconti ink and it seemed dry.

 

I've read that adding water makes an ink dryer. Has anyone tried that?

[Buzz_130]

Ink manufacturers are offering wider ranges of ink than ever before. How could you describe Noodlers, Diamine, Pilot, and so many other manufacturers? They have brands and subbrands. Some label under different names. To determine wet and dry is getting to the point where the individual ink needs to be tested with a range of nibs.

 

My one exception is iron gall inks. KWZI, Diamine, and others tend to be dry writers.

 

Buzz

[Bo Bo Olson]

Dry inks....Pelikan 4001 BB is reputed to be Pelikan's driest ink....so I think is the Lamy BB.

For sure I can't tell which one is drier, but the indications could be Lamy.

 

But the nibs though both good regular flex....could be fatter and thinner because of the inks and not by slop/tolerance. Which I'd not noticed before in those two nibs.....but wasn't looking all that had for it anyway. I'd given up on fatter and skinnier within tolerance nib measurements quite a while ago.

Or one nib could be at the fatter end of tolerance and the other at the skinny end.

 

 

Lamy BB vs Pelikan 4001 BB. Two '90's regular flex Pelikan cartridge pens, @ same 'width +or -' as a modern 200....(Saw Pelikan 4001 BB one day in a Pen shop, the very next day the Lamy BB in the pen section of a department store.....nothing planned....just lucked out.)

The F nib for the Pelikan blue black appears to be on the fatter side of F tolerance, or the F nib for the Lamy blue black on the thin side of F tolerance.

 

Could be Lamy ink would show better with a Lamy feed and nib.

 

Start with Southworth 90g/24 lb, Ivory Granite & Ivory Parchment..

..the only creme I could grab quick is Gmund 170g a near perfect paper...the same in 120, is a bit more perfect.. And M&K typewriter paper 95 g/ 25 1/2 pounds in white, with watermark.

 

My feathering/woolly line system for papers and inks.

BEF....seen while sitting, Bare Eye Feathering/woolly line.

NEF, ....seen when holding the paper near the eye....OK ink and paper.

MAGF....seen with the Honking Big Magnifying Glass. A good ink and paper....worth buying again.

NoMAGF.....no feathering/woolly line with magnifying glass. Buy stock in the company, buy wholesale, smuggle it in.....both paper and ink.

 

Then the Honking Big Magnifying Glass 2.7cm/ 1 14th inch thick three by 4 inch wide....8x11 cm. No, a 10 X loupe is too strong, every ink will fail.

Looking for a woolly line, in there is no feathering of course in they are good BB inks. ...at least on these papers.

 

 

First, any paper that is both laser and ink jet is a compromise....so would expect a woolly line at least in the Ink Jet ink has to be quickly absorbed into the paper. Pure laser is better.

The more rag one has is bad for feathering and woolly lines. 25% is fine, 50 or 100% is too absorbent and the clean line is lost; often feathering and woolly lines.......from other tests.

 

Ivory Granite, a so so paper it now appears. Slight NEF...both Lamy a half a tad cleaner. MagF...slightly both...again Lamy is the tad better ink. I think the 'rougher' paper structure makes a bit of difference. Lamy a small tad darker. And Lamy has that slightly thinner F nib.

 

Same for Southworth Ivory Parchment.

 

The M&K a German is also laser/ink jet. Lamy leaves a tad cleaner line. Woolly line is minimal...when held near the eyes....Lamy a tad better... With glass, have to look hard for it...Lamy the slightly cleaner line. (Any and all three of the M&K papers are worth ordering from Germany. German postage is much less than the States.....could well be less than British also.)

 

Gmund 170 G, both equal, have to look under glass.for an indication ..if that of woolly line, not a perfect clean line for either....Nit Picking to the max.

 

Will have to find a real slick white paper....Avery Zweckform 120 g glossy Laser paper.

NEF...none nor wooly line....second look a slightest tad of an indication of some on the 4001.

MAGF.....Lamy Perfect clean line. Pelikan a couple of letters with indication of woolly line at the end of those letters. ...very good.

 

Pelikan a tad darker, a bit better shading. Lamy a bit bluer; it also shades but not quite as much as the 4001.

That the F nib for 4001, is a tad wider could have some influence.

 

All in all I give the nod to Lamy.

Maybe not drier but a tad to the 'better'.....with those regular flex F nibs.

Could be a different story with wider nibs or wetter semi-flex nibs.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Precise]

I have pens which are wet, yet lay down a pale line.

 

Any ideas?

 

Alan

[Runnin_Ute]

I have pens which are wet, yet lay down a pale line.

 

Any ideas?

 

Alan

What ink and nib do you experience this with?

[Precise]

What ink and nib do you experience this with?

I've encountered this with F and M. When I do encounter this, the first thing I try is a different ink, but that rarely helps. Inks I try include:

Pelikan Blue

Mountblanc Blue

Daimine Sapphire

Duke Blue

Waterman Blue

The "wetness" seems no different from my other pens, but the line is pale.

Alan

[Flaxmoore]

I've found Pelikan inks to be incredibly dry, and only really usable in a very wet pen. My usual test pens are a Lamy Al-Star in EF, and a Pilot Metro in M. It dried the Pilot to near-unusable, and made the Lamy scratchy and unpleasant. Works great in my M205, though.

 

Iron galls, at least my two, are quite dry- Diamine Registrar and R&K Salix. Both are usable in my Pilot, but a bit miserly for flow.

 

Driest of the big former US players- Parker, Waterman, Sheaffer- is Parker but not by much. Noodler's runs the gamut. Diamine does as well. Kaweco tends slightly weak and dry.

 

Pelikan seems to be the only consistently bone dry I've seen.