Precious Resin - Ongoing Debate

[Bluey]

This stuff costs a lot once it is turned into a pen by Montblanc

 

Price and cost need to be differentiated. the whole pen reportedly cost MB around $25 to make all included, but it's sold at a price of around $600.

[Polanova]

As a linguist, I've tried to hold my tongue, but I have to say that the best translation for English speakers for Edel- in this case is "of very high quality". Edel first meant of noble birth, and then generalized to mean high quality. Thus Edelharz is simply very high quality resin. Precious and the others are not wrong, and in fact may be correct for other words (like Edelstein) but they don't convey to English speakers the exact meaning of Edelharz. As to why MB made the choice they did, I will not speculate, but I have some German words as an example of the "very high quality" meaning:

 

(As mentioned before) Edestahl = Very high quality steel, not precious steel

Edelschimmel = Very high quality cheese mold, in fact of such high quality that it is edible. The English word precious really doesn't fit here.

Edelprostituierte = Yes, this is what you think it is. Precious? Not likely.

 

 

Edelprostituierte is maybe not a wrong word but is not so common, Edelnutte being more common!

Of course, at 1000 - 2000$/night you could call such a prostitute precious in a sense

I stick with it: Precious Resin is a more than adequate translation of Edelharz!

Saying that Edelstahl doesn`t translate into Precious steel won`t cut it as a good translation (at least in the literary sense) is never word for word but a more free translation which gets the gist, as it were.

Guess how Edelstein translates into English: Gem or Gemstone - what stone could be more precious than a gemstone?

 

Alternatives for Precious Resin would be Refined Resin or maybe even Enhanced Resin, but are they really better??

Ultimately Precious Resin is a typical marketing euphemism, which means simply High Quality Plastic and nothing else.

BIC Ballpoints are made from Low(er) Quality Plastic, so it makes sense to differentiate.

Contrary to Precious Resin (I can`t hear it anymore!) would be Celluloid, Urushi lacquer or Ebonite/Hard Rubber which are non-euphemistic descriptions of truly precious materials.

(As a side note, none of the truly precious materials are generelly used by the luxury manufacturer MB)

Edited March 6, 2018 by Polanova

[Flippy]

What, what, what? I thought my pens were formed from a rare tree resin of the Das Capitalius tree the grows exclusively on the higher slopes of Montblanc and is tapped by goat herders who keep their hands soft by immersing them in goats milk before approaching the magical tree to collect it's precious resins. I feel so disappointed and duped knowing now that it's just a plastic pen.

[Flippy]

Montblanc will always get away with charging outrageous prices for status objects. Truth be told, however, I really like my Montblancs. They do feel like solid pens, even the ballpoints.

Edited March 6, 2018 by FlippyThePen

[pajaro]

Price and cost need to be differentiated. the whole pen reportedly cost MB around $25 to make all included, but it's sold at a price of around $600.

 

What kind of profit do Pilot and Sailor make in their imitative pens? I had the feeling they were trying to make NB lookalikes.

[DasKaltblut]

Edelprostituierte is maybe not a wrong word but is not so common, Edelnutte being more common!

Of course, at 1000 - 2000$/night you could call such a prostitute precious in a sense

I stick with it: Precious Resin is a more than adequate translation of Edelharz!

Saying that Edelstahl doesn`t translate into Precious steel won`t cut it as a good translation (at least in the literary sense) is never word for word but a more free translation which gets the gist, as it were.

Guess how Edelstein translates into English: Gem or Gemstone - what stone could be more precious than a gemstone?

 

Alternatives for Precious Resin would be Refined Resin or maybe even Enhanced Resin, but are they really better??

Ultimately Precious Resin is a typical marketing euphemism, which means simply High Quality Plastic and nothing else.

BIC Ballpoints are made from Low(er) Quality Plastic, so it makes sense to differentiate.

Contrary to Precious Resin (I can`t hear it anymore!) would be Celluloid, Urushi lacquer or Ebonite/Hard Rubber which are non-euphemistic descriptions of truly precious materials.

A couple of things I fear you missed with my list of words where Edel doesn't mean precious. I didn't use Nutte because I wanted to use a word English speakers would recognize without looking it up. I also used Edelstein as an example of when precious does fit. I don't have to guess what it means, I speak German. I'd even go so far as to say that edelstein is better translated as "a stone of outstanding quality" since that is closer to the meaning of edel ("von hervorragender Qualität" says my dictionary) but that's a whole other argument.

 

In the end, precious isn't the best for Edelharz due to the specific connotations precious has for native English speakers. There are many theories of translation, and most say that adequate is not enough. Precious is adequate, but not the best, since it has other linguistic baggage. Indeed, this whole topic would never exist but for the linguistic baggage of the word precious in *English*.

 

As you point out, just matching the number of words is not enough, but instead capturing the history and connotations of a meaning. Translating has a good bit more to do with the language words are translated in to than most people think, and this is a perfect example of it. This is why professional translators are native speakers of the langauge they translate into.

[Uncial]

(As a side note, none of the truly precious materials are generelly used by the luxury manufacturer MB)

 

 

 

Ummm.......gold maybe?

[JonSzanto]

In the end, precious isn't the best for Edelharz due to the specific connotations precious has for native English speakers. There are many theories of translation, and most say that adequate is not enough. Precious is adequate, but not the best, since it has other linguistic baggage. Indeed, this whole topic would never exist but for the linguistic baggage of the word precious in *English*.

 

*Perfectly* stated. Still, continually, after all this whinging, the entire issue boils down to a poor choice of wording by virtue of translation. Bad marketing through inept linguistic transformation.

 

That their products are overpriced is a separate issue.

[DasKaltblut]

*Perfectly* stated. Still, continually, after all this whinging, the entire issue boils down to a poor choice of wording by virtue of translation. Bad marketing through inept linguistic transformation.

 

That their products are overpriced is a separate issue.

Exactly.

[Lam1]

 

As Asbestos is banned in the UK, unless sealed, should I destroy all my pens?

 

Asbestos should be disposed off with the proper care and equipment. So, I urge you not to do this.

Instead, send the pens to me and I assure you that I'll destroy them using the appropriate safety measures.

I the best interest of our society, I will not even charge you for the services.

[Bluey]

 

What kind of profit do Pilot and Sailor make in their imitative pens? I had the feeling they were trying to make NB lookalikes.

Obviously considerably less. I got the impression they were using generic models.

 

The 149 didn't start off looking like that, and by the time that MB acquired that shape after copying the Sheaffer balance neither MB nor that model was likely even known to the Japanese brands at that time.

The MB lookalike thing is most likely imagined by certain sectors of the fp community.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Bluey

[Kalessin]

(As a side note, none of the truly precious materials are generelly used by the luxury manufacturer MB)

 

 

 

Ummm.......gold maybe?

 

 

Solid gold (yellow, white and rose), platinum, silver, diamonds, sapphires, rubies, mammoth ivory (which is legal, though not to everyone's taste), Meissen porcelain.

 

What precious material used to make pens is MB not using?

 

MB doesn't do maki-e, which seems to be more Pelikan's specialty.

[Kalessin]

Price and cost need to be differentiated. the whole pen reportedly cost MB around $25 to make all included, but it's sold at a price of around $600.

 

The purchase price and materials cost are also far apart with with Pelikan, Nakaya, the previous Omas, Cartier, Graf von Faber-Castell, Yard-o-Led, and all the other luxury-line makers.

[zaddick]

The 149 didn't start off looking like that, and by the time that MB acquired that shape after copying the Sheaffer balance neither MB nor that model was likely even known to the Japanese brands at that time.

 

The 149 has consistently had the same general profile its entire existence. When the pen was celluloid (from 1952 to 1960) it was shorter, but the profile was basically the same proportions.

 

The chevron pattern gold 149 has a different texture, but even that profile is the same. Of course clip profile, trim rings and section lips have changed, and the 149 for the 75th anniversary has an extra band of metal on the derby, but some people complain how boring the pen is because it is so consistent in looks over the years.

[max dog]

The" precious resin " is indeed very hard, aiming to avoid surface scratches

Unavoidable drawback being the material becomes extremely brittle.

As in most cases its a matter of "giving and taking"..

Francis

Yes like fine bone china and porcelain, but in the case of PRECIOUS resin, it is somewhat resilient.

[Parker51]

I understand the idea that the German word that is used as a descriptor has a significantly different meaning than the English words which are used as substitutes due to the cultural context. Maybe that is part of the problem. In English, especially as used by those in the U.S., there is no reverence for nobility in the language. This is similar to how in English there is little difference between the informal and formal adress and usage versus the German which has significant differences between the formal and informal such that meaning is lost in translation in regard to that social construct. I believe a German speaker would not understand, except through significant experience and proof, that in the U.S., we do not communicate a person or things status, rank, expected respect, and behavior through either language form or word meaning. Instead we either support our statements with factual information, or we use similies. This is a cultural difference. To a German speaker an English speaker especially from the U.S. may appear too child like, being unaware and uncaring of the differences between people simply because English does not as a matter of course include that information while to an English speaker, the German appears to be equally child like in being too reliant on titles, degrees and status, unquestioning of those in positions of authority simply because they do not understand that the titles, degrees, status and positions of authority are expected to be earned and maintained, are not lightly given. Which is better, I don't know. As a native U.S. English speaker with the ability to think critically and the experience of knowing that there is a difference between identity and performance, I show my bias in preferring proof, but I freely acknowledge that most people, irrespective of language or geography are not logical and so I see a certain benefit in a culture in which the expert, the titled, those with degrees are automatically respected. Unfortunately we all know what happens to a people who routinely operate on the basis of those earned identities quite successfully stops doing so and simply embraces someone on an emotional basis. They do not have an automatic default of not believing what they hear and testing it out, asking for truth. This is unfortunately what a significant portion of the population of all societies do, they operate on emotion. The problem is when you don't have enough critical thinkers to create an opposition, something perhaps more likely when critical thinking regarding others is routinely not required.

[max dog]

 

I have a 1926 Sheaffer 8C in black radite that is as smooth and polished as any pen I've owned. Precious is just a word.

In Seattle there is a well known museum-gift shop down by the touristy water-front pier area. One of the most famous artifacts in the museum is "Sylvia" the real petrified mummy from several hundred years ago that's displayed in all it's (her) glory. She has become very "smooth and polished" over the centuries too. Somethings just tend to turn that way as it gets very old.

[Bluey]

 

The purchase price and materials cost are also far apart with with Pelikan, Nakaya, the previous Omas, Cartier, Graf von Faber-Castell, Yard-o-Led, and all the other luxury-line makers.

Yes but for different reasons. Nakaya you're paying for the labour of it being 'custom' made.

 

Pelikan, like MB, are mass produced garbage intended for gift givers IMO.

[JonSzanto]

In Seattle there is a well known museum-gift shop down by the touristy water-front pier area. One of the most famous artifacts in the museum is "Sylvia" the real petrified mummy from several hundred years ago that's displayed in all it's (her) glory. She has become very "smooth and polished" over the centuries too. Somethings just tend to turn that way as it gets very old.

 

But my intention was to point up the fact that the materials were of such a quality that the pen *retained* its look and feel, not that it was something acrued over time. Cared for, the pen has stayed in pristine condition because it was well-crafted of good materials in the first place.

 

I'll have to check out Sylvia next time I'm up there!

[Matlock]

 

Asbestos should be disposed off with the proper care and equipment. So, I urge you not to do this.

Instead, send the pens to me and I assure you that I'll destroy them using the appropriate safety measures.

I the best interest of our society, I will not even charge you for the services.

 

That is very kind of you and when I have purchased the necessary protective clothing and breathing apparatus you will be my first choice.