The Great Cursive Writing Debate: Lost Art Or Vital Skill?

[milkb0at]

Do these sorts of debates occur in countries with Asian and Islamic handwriting? I wonder if their cursive styles are seen as intellectually superior compared to the non-cursive hands.

[TSherbs]

Parker, you think that "generations" are getting "lazier"? For how long--how many generations have been getting lazier? What/when do you consider the apogee of energy? My students, for example, are not lazier than they were 33 years ago when I began. The opposite is actually true. They take more classes, are involved in more activities, and do more homework. Curious what you mean.

[ParkerDuofold]

Do these sorts of debates occur in countries with Asian and Islamic handwriting? I wonder if their cursive styles are seen as intellectually superior compared to the non-cursive hands.

Hi Milkboat,

 

I doubt it... they don't have debates in those regions... they just say "get to writing!"

 

Actually, the Chinese did relax their penmanship style beginning in 1949 to a "cursive Chinese"; in an effort to reduce their illiteracy rates. If this has succeeded, I do not know.

 

I know our illiteracy rates have not changed in the past decade,... so we seem to be no better or worse,... but they are slightly higher than they were in 1992, IIRC.

 

I cannot say for sure, but Islamic penmanship probably has not changed at all in our lifetimes, so there is nothing to debate.

 

If anyone here has something more constructive to say... I'm sure they will.

 

Be well and enjoy life.

 

 

- Anthony

[ParkerDuofold]

...The opposite is actually true. They take more classes, are involved in more activities, and do more homework. Curious what you mean.

Hi TSherbs, et al,

 

Well, if this is the case; where are the fruits of their labors?

 

Why have our illiteracy rankings remained stagnant for the past ten years? Why do American schools/education rank lower than some "third world" nations? Why do American companies have to bring in job applicants from foreign countries because they can't find enough American applicants for engineering positions and other careers that require intense analytical thought and logic?

 

I'm not seeing the fruits of their labors.

 

 

- Anthony

[pajaro]

Cell phones, internet, gaming.

 

My father's business partner used to say as an explanation for every horror of modern life the following.

 

"The world is eaten up with the dumba##es."

 

It does explain a lot, whether or not you believe it.

 

This thread, for example.

[ParkerDuofold]

...This thread, for example.

 

- Anthony

[goldenboy]

Cursive is a vital skill that the young generation are not learning. I was forced to learn cursive by my grade 5 teacher and now that I realize, it was the best thing they could have taught me. Some kids that I go to school with, don't even know how to write or read cursive-so sad. Cursive is much more efficient form of writing, more aesthetically appealing and makes you remember what you write better. The problem is schools don't even teach or emphasize cursive writing. The education system needs to start instituting cursive writing in the curriculum or it will begin to die out.

[TSherbs]

Hi TSherbs, et al,

 

Well, if this is the case; where are the fruits of their labors?

 

Why have our illiteracy rankings remained stagnant for the past ten years? Why do American schools/education rank lower than some "third world" nations? Why do American companies have to bring in job applicants from foreign countries because they can't find enough American applicants for engineering positions and other careers that require intense analytical thought and logic?

 

I'm not seeing the fruits of their labors.

 

 

- Anthony

Are you tying this to cursive instruction? Literacy has nothing to do with cursive. Are you asserting that literacy rates go up or down because of generational laziness (whatever that means)?

[max dog]

Hi TSherbs, et al,

 

Well, if this is the case; where are the fruits of their labors?

 

Why have our illiteracy rankings remained stagnant for the past ten years? Why do American schools/education rank lower than some "third world" nations? Why do American companies have to bring in job applicants from foreign countries because they can't find enough American applicants for engineering positions and other careers that require intense analytical thought and logic?

 

I'm not seeing the fruits of their labors.

 

 

- Anthony

Anthony

I think you raise an excellent point when it comes to modern technology (iphones, internet, email, facebook, better computers etc).

 

These technological advances that are supposed to make us all more efficient and get more done in life seems to push us ahead 4 steps and drag us back 3 with all it's baggage and distractions. Without getting into writing a long essay here on the pros and cons, take email for example in the office. While we can send messages across the world in milliseconds and reach a huge audience (oh the curse of the .cc), look at how much time the world wastes sorting through all those gazllion emails just to extract a very few that are relevant. I see people on the train every morning glued to their iphones wading through all the distraction the web has to offer. I wonder how many of them actually get something valuable done with their super high speed latest and greatest (nearly $1000 now) iphone. I miss the days when I would come to work and find on my desk my inbox with half a dozen important tasks in paper for the day, instead of today having to sort through 200 emails every morning just to extract a dozen important ones that are relevant to me.

 

As we move ahead into the future, and embrace new technologies, we should not forget to hold onto what works, and only change what doesn't. Just a blind embrace of new technology because someone says it is supposed to be better (like Apple, Microsoft, Samsung etc) is foolish. That's the way this world seems to be headed.

Edited September 16, 2017 by max dog

[TSherbs]

Cursive is a vital skill that the young generation are not learning.

This is mostly not true. It is neither "vital" nor is it "not being learned." it is still being taught many many many places in the US.

 

It is hard for me, being an actual teacher, to hear these misleading overgeneralizations.

[ParramattaPaul]

... Literacy has nothing to do with cursive. ...

 

I fully agree. I also agree that it has nothing to do with laziness. Nor does it have anything to do with computers, mobile phones, TV, or computer games.

 

What I do wonder, and I'll address this to TSherbs and other educators, is how much of it has to do with 'whole word learning'? Fifty years ago, children were taught the alphabet, the letters' sounds and then taught to read by 'sounding out the letters' and learning the meaning of words. I find myself wondering if 'whole word learning' may negatively affect learning ( literacy) and dyslexia. Has any research been done there?

Edited September 16, 2017 by ParramattaPaul

[TSherbs]

 

I fully agree. I also agree that it has nothing to do with laziness. Nor does it have anything to do with computers, mobile phones, TV, or computer games.

 

What I do wonder, and I'll address this to TSherbs and other educators, is how much of it has to do with 'whole word learning'? Fifty years ago, children were taught the alphabet, the letters' sounds and then taught to read by 'sounding out the letters' and learning the meaning of words. I find myself wondering if 'whole word learning' may negatively affect learning ( literacy) and dyslexia. Has any research been done there?

 

I don't really know about actual research on that. This is a whole different matter, but you ask a valid question. Common strategy of developing literacy (in children) is a blended approach of letter/word recognition. (I teach older students.)

 

Literacy challenges in this country are more socio-economic (or related to immigration) and unrelated to any actual school choice of writing or reading instruction. We have more children in preschool and kindergarten than ever, but we have other socio-economic challenges that result in de-emphasis of school or exit from schooling altogether.

[ParramattaPaul]

 

... but we have other socio-economic challenges that result in de-emphasis of school or exit from schooling altogether.

 

That is an interesting statement. Could you elaborate?

[markh]

THE SOLUTION!!

 

Just got today's email from Farhneys Pens. Got to have one of these, and solve the debate at the same time:

 

Fahrney's Exclusive Retro 51 Cursive Fountain Pen

Show your love for cursive writing with the newest member of Retro 51’s Antique Metalsmith Tornado series! Inspired by classic grade school handwriting manuals,...

 

 

<https://www.fahrneyspens.com/Item--i-18556>

 

Once again, shopping solves all problems. I will order one later today :)

 

 

.

[inkstainedruth]

THE SOLUTION!!

 

Just got today's email from Farhneys Pens. Got to have one of these, and solve the debate at the same time:

 

Fahrney's Exclusive Retro 51 Cursive Fountain Pen

Show your love for cursive writing with the newest member of Retro 51’s Antique Metalsmith Tornado series! Inspired by classic grade school handwriting manuals,...

 

 

<https://www.fahrneyspens.com/Item--i-18556>

 

Once again, shopping solves all problems. I will order one later today :)

 

 

.

 

I was wondering what those pens were like (I got the same email ad). But there wasn't any sort of info in the email about weight, fill system, how well it posts, etc.

Lets us know how you like the pen, and if it's worth the price Fahrney's is asking for it.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[TSherbs]

 

That is an interesting statement. Could you elaborate?

 

oh, geez

 

really?

 

Are you not aware of the connection between lower income and less schooling and less learning?

 

if you are really interested, read this 200-pg doc from the US Dept of Ed. https://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93275.pdf

[ParramattaPaul]

 

... Are you not aware of the connection between lower income and less schooling and less learning?

 

if you are really interested, read this 200-pg doc from the US Dept of Ed. https://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93275.pdf

 

I suspect I may not be aware of it. But then, I came from a broken home and an impoverished background, and was shifted from pillar to post during my formative years - and I only have a Master's Degree.

 

What I do know is that when one is faced with hardships in life he/she is also faced with choices. I had a choice of following 'the pattern' or using my poverty and everything else confronting me as a motivator to make the best life for my self I could. Speaking honestly and solely about First World nations, I reflexively have doubts when one says poverty is the cause whether one is speaking about crime statistics and education.

 

Given that I retired at 39 with a six figure annual income and appropriate cost of living increases, I think I did okay.

 

I will read the referenced document.

[ParkerDuofold]

I suspect I may not be aware of it. But then, I came from a broken home and an impoverished background, and was shifted from pillar to post during my formative years - and I only have a Master's Degree.

 

What I do know is that when one is faced with hardships in life he/she is also faced with choices. I had a choice of following 'the pattern' or using my poverty and everything else confronting me as a motivator to make the best life for my self I could. Speaking honestly and solely about First World nations, I reflexively have doubts when one says poverty is the cause whether one is speaking about crime statistics and education.

 

Given that I retired at 39 with a six figure annual income and appropriate cost of living increases, I think I did okay.

 

I will read the referenced document.

+1. Good for you, Paul!

 

 

Hello Paul, TSherbs, et al,

 

No. I do think the lack of cursive instruction is the root of all our academic woes... it is merely a small branch on a very large tree. That said, I do not accept the "socio-economic" argument, either.

 

There are children in "Third World" nations who suffer a standard of living significantly lower than ours; who attend schools with significantly fewer resources than ours... yet consistently outperform our children in all three academic disciplines - comprehension; writing and mathematics. Vietnam is just one such country.

 

Some will say they are a homogeneous race, so their poverty is of little influence; however, I do not accept that, either.

 

When my grandparents arrived here from Sicily in the early 20th. Century; they were universally hated for their olive skin and Catholic faith. In fact, here in the North; a black man enjoyed far more employment opportunities than my olive-skinned grandfather did.

 

They came here with nothing; lived in a squalid tenement with ONE bathroom at the end of the hall that was shared by SIX apartments! Yet they still managed to learn English and make sure their children got a decent education.

 

So, no; I do not buy into the "socio-economic" argument... I think it is a crutch used by both modern students and the teachers alike to excuse laziness and/or bad behavior. The latter being where most of the modern teachers time is spent... playing referee to brats instead of teaching, (see below):

 

https://www.scholastic.com/teachers/articles/teaching-content/classroom-behavior-problems-increasing-teachers-say/

 

All that said, I do want to be fair-minded about this. If someone knows of a decent article or two; I'd be glad to read them... but remember, I'm not like Paul... I have a day-job. I do not have the time to read a 200-page report that isn't work related.

 

Be well and enjoy life.

 

- Anthony

 

P.S.: I'm only back in this thread because I believe this is an important topic, that is worth the time and effort. That said, this probably will be my last post; less the "dead horse syndrome" rear it's ugly head... ...but I will entertain any articles that are recommended.

 

I also believe cursive penmanship stimulates cognitive function more than block printing does and should be taught and encouraged for that reason alone... it's also quicker.

Edited September 18, 2017 by ParkerDuofold

[TSherbs]

I just lost a long reply

[TSherbs]

I am wearied by this, especially since I am the only teacher here in a conversation about the professional decision-making among my colleagues, particularly on the matter of writing and literacy. I seem even to be having to explain the value and limits of statistical correlation. For example, to answer statistical analysis with anecdote is to avoid the implication and strength of statistics. For the record, my father was a US Depression era orphan, poor as they come. That has nothing to do with the statistical analysis of a much larger aggregate pool that I cite above.

 

I have some papers to grade and some student handwriting to read through and help with. Again, if anyone finds anything about the efficacy of cursive over printing other than anecdote and personal preference, send it my way in a PM. I would love to share it with my colleagues who work with younger language learners. I appreciate Amberlea's time and efforts in this regard. I read everything that she posted, which, I believe, was mostly because I asked for it and am open to reading it.

 

Carry on.