Jump to content

The Great Cursive Writing Debate: Lost Art Or Vital Skill?


markh

Recommended Posts

Wasn't as big as it seemed... Try telling my school though - and the building isn't so old... And a local epicentre for the first time in my experience.

 

Oh well, if there are no more rude interruptions...!

 

The International Dyslexia Association also recommends cursive on this page ( https://dyslexiaida.org/why-bother-with-cursive/ ), but I've checked out most of their references and they were not conclusive to say the least.

 

They specifically recommend the following approach:

"Before the student begins to write on paper, all cursive formations should be practiced with the student standing up and working on a whiteboard or chalkboard. The four-step multisensory procedure known as “Trace, Copy, Cover, Closed” is vital (March 2015 Examiner). Be sure that each letter begins on the line and ends with a “smile” that is the beginning of the connecting stroke to the following letter."

 

This is one of the IDA's associated cursive recommending organisations:

http://www.asdec.org/

 

... But they seem to have a lot of circular confirmation, with most of their references being to other somewhat unscientific educational studies.

 

The most common expression resembling an introduction to these topics on these sites seems to be 'It is recommended...'. Not too confidence inspiring.

Hi, I'm Mat


:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 244
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • TSherbs

    63

  • ParkerDuofold

    35

  • max dog

    18

  • ParramattaPaul

    14

yes, and "she"? How is she judged?

 

Please spare us the politically correct semantics... it's a meaningless red herring... anyone who uses proper English knows what Paul meant... and if they do not know it... they better learn it; like my grandparents did when they came here from Italy.

 

 

Language, for some, is even a barrier to God (or divinity).

 

You are gravely mistaken here. For one thing you're implying things are beyond God's comprehension... which is impossible. Secondly, a deaf, blind mute such as Helen Keller was still able to communicate with God. HE listens to the intentions of your HEART.

 

That said, I'm going to take my leave of this thread... I think any further debate would only be an exercise in futility. We each have our own perspectives... and never the twain shall meet.

 

Just one final note: regarding love letters, (which I was going to let drop, but...); some people see romance as "Walk this Way" by Aerosmith; others see it as "Come Softly to Me" by The Fleetwoods, (I can't believe I'm arguing this using popular songs :huh:),... I prefer to be in the latter group... romance is something precious... it should be treated as such.

 

Be well all. :)

 

- Anthony

 

Edited by ParkerDuofold
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

yes, and "she"? How is she judged? ...

 

Thank you Sir or Madam for an excellent example of the definition of pedantic.

 

AS for your question regarding fair and accurate judgement, I will ask, is any judgement fair and accurate or is it subjective?

 

I will add that no one has suggested that anyone worships grammar or cursive other than you. What has been suggested is that both have their place and purpose as a facility for communication.

Edited by ParramattaPaul
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding "yes, and 'she'? How is she judged", in the context of TSHerb's post, I took them to be having a gentle dig about clear use of language, not to mention that usages change over time, and in the rest of the post make exactly the point that judgmentalism is subjective.

 

Apart from some sense of personal affront, there may be furious agreement. :)

X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't as big as it seemed... Try telling my school though - and the building isn't so old... And a local epicentre for the first time in my experience.

 

Oh well, if there are no more rude interruptions...!

 

The International Dyslexia Association also recommends cursive on this page ( https://dyslexiaida.org/why-bother-with-cursive/ ), but I've checked out most of their references and they were not conclusive to say the least.

 

They specifically recommend the following approach:

"Before the student begins to write on paper, all cursive formations should be practiced with the student standing up and working on a whiteboard or chalkboard. The four-step multisensory procedure known as “Trace, Copy, Cover, Closed” is vital (March 2015 Examiner). Be sure that each letter begins on the line and ends with a “smile” that is the beginning of the connecting stroke to the following letter."

 

This is one of the IDA's associated cursive recommending organisations:

http://www.asdec.org/

 

... But they seem to have a lot of circular confirmation, with most of their references being to other somewhat unscientific educational studies.

 

The most common expression resembling an introduction to these topics on these sites seems to be 'It is recommended...'. Not too confidence inspiring.

 

thanks!

 

I will look into this in daylight....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Parker and Paul... what? I was simply making a point about precision in pronoun use. It's actually my job to do so in my workplace. Is anyone else here actually a teacher of grammar and writing? The thread title says "debate" after all. There is nothing personal in this for me at all. I am gathering that he same is not true for others.

 

And my point about language and divinity simply comes from my point of view that has been influenced by eastern spirituality and philosophy. Skepticism about the ability of language to mediate our transcendence with the divine is a very common idea. Much talked about. I don't understand what appears to be anger in response to a fairly widespread point of view, especially coming from a teacher of literature. I was simply confessing ambivalence about language--Satan, after all, was one of the most persuasive speakers. Language can deceive as well as reveal. I consider this pretty common stuff (not revelatory nor revolutionary nor insulting).

 

Praxim...yep

 

sheesh...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And before I turn in for the night, I might also say that this morning at my school I met with a parent of one of my students with special academic accommodations and our support services counselor and we worked up a plan, in part, to address some aspects of dysgraphia. This is actually my job to care about the topic of this thread, on a very professional and legal level. I guess I sounded "pedantic" to someone, but, honestly, I am just being professional. So when I actually see some better evidence about cursive and dysgraphia or general cognition, I will incorporate it more rigorously. But our specialist counselor knew nothing about any emphasis on the efficacy of cursive, and she has more training than I. But as I have said, humbly and sincerely, I am open to any research that anyone knows about.

 

Peace out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TSherbs, with respect I did not take your comment personally. While I often use gender inclusive (he/she, her/his, etc.) language, I assumed that 'he' would be recognised as gender neutral, as it traditionally has been. That said, your reply did genuinely seem pedantic.

 

Your eastern spirituality, philosophy and language comment is particularly informative as I have only a passing familiarity with eastern religions. Your 'ambivalence about language' is understandable in that context. I agree that language can deceive as well as reveal. John Henry Newman is quoted as saying, 'Evil has no substance of its own, but is only the defect, excess, perversion, or corruption of that which has substance.' One could apply this concept to inanimate objects, including language. The defect, etc. would be how it is use by the animate - the person - the 'substance'.

Edited by ParramattaPaul
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Based on some of the writing I see, even here, cursive is perhaps verging on being a lost art.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

thanks!

 

I will look into this in daylight....

 

Don't get your hopes up! It mostly seems to confirm what you suspect about there being very little science-based evidence to back up the cursive writing claims of some of these dyslexic organisations.

Hi, I'm Mat


:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scribes and TSherbs,

 

I just can't find the research to support cursive being necessary, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I would have better luck if I were at the school computers since they have access to academic journals.

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Don't get your hopes up! It mostly seems to confirm what you suspect about there being very little science-based evidence to back up the cursive writing claims of some of these dyslexic organisations.

 

I understand. I still want to poke around myself. Thanks for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for fun and fuel for the fire.

It's funny how some signatures are going to look like in the future.

 

thanks dog

 

Most of this is about the value of using handwriting in learning, and no one really doubts this (research findings, including the MRI studies mentioned here, support the claim).

 

The only specific claim about the efficacy of cursive over printing was a claim which began with "Doctor's say...." And that was it. Not which doctors nor what kind of doctors nor any specific reference to research to support this. It is just a tv piece, but that is still a moment of shoddy journalism.

 

Although I disagree with some aspects of the Common Core, I hope that most people believe that if there were any clear and demonstrable benefit to teaching cursive, that educators would in fact keep it as a requirement. As one myself, while I admit that we are not perfect and are prone to the same defects as our fellow humans, for the most part we follow the evidence that educational and cognitive research shows us. If there were any significant evidence that cursive has cognitive value over printing, we would insist on it.

 

So far, that evidence is lacking.

 

Cursive has other social and historical values, and, so, many teachers still teach it (as is true at my school), but to require and insist on it without clear educational or cognitive benefits (beyond sentiment, tradition, and aesthetics) is not likely to continue as social and workplace values change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a freakenomics conversation - print is the thing.

 

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/who-needs-handwriting/

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Years ago you would not be considered fully educated without being able to read music and at least one foreign language.

 

A person from that time would have a rough time with a vending machine today.

 

I don't know, how much can you pack inside the head of a high school student?

My father's college biology texbook was written before the discovery of DNA which apparently left him time for a mandatory etiquette class. (Class of 61)

Edited by Bordeaux146
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

Every time I think that I'm out!... they pull me back in! :wallbash: :rolleyes:

 

I can just speak from my own personal experience... I'm not an educator... I'm not leaning on reams of paper filled with studies, (which btw, can usually be slanted any way you want to slant them... studies and statistics are often a "liar's game"), but I'm going to put all of that to the side and just speak straight from actual life experience.

 

I know that printing requires more of a physical effort, but less of a cognitive effort to form the letters; whereas cursive is less demanding physically,... but does require more of a cognitive effort to form the letters correctly.

 

That said, I believe two things to be true... the latter reason is why cursive is dropping in popularity, (it's not just technology alone; it's also because each passing generation gets a little lazier and a little less intellectually enriched than the one before it - see Bordeaux' comments above), and two, anything that stimulates cognitive function should be strongly encouraged.

 

Be well and enjoy life. :)

 

 

- Anthony

 

P.S.: And if you know cursive... teach it to your kids, nephews and nieces... if their schools are not - as others have said, if it lives or dies is up to us... just as if whether or not Western Civilization lives or dies is also up to us.

 

EDITED to correct typos.

Edited by ParkerDuofold
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43972
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      35661
    3. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      31654
    4. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    5. Bo Bo Olson
      Bo Bo Olson
      27747
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Misfit
      Oh to have that translucent pink Prera! @migo984 has the Oeste series named after birds. There is a pink one, so I’m assuming Este is the same pen as Oeste.    Excellent haul. I have some Uniball One P pens. Do you like to use them? I like them enough, but don’t use them too much yet.    Do you or your wife use Travelers Notebooks? Seeing you were at Kyoto, I thought of them as there is a store there. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It's not nearly so thick that I feel it comprises my fine-grained control, the way I feel about the Cross Peerless 125 or some of the high-end TACCIA Urushi pens with cigar-shaped bodies and 18K gold nibs. Why would you expect me or anyone else to make explicit mention of it, if it isn't a travesty or such a disappointment that an owner of the pen would want to bring it to the attention of his/her peers so that they could “learn from his/her mistake” without paying the price?
    • szlovak
      Why nobody says that the section of Tuzu besides triangular shape is quite thick. Honestly it’s the thickest one among my many pens, other thick I own is Noodler’s Ahab. Because of that fat section I feel more control and my handwriting has improved. I can’t say it’s comfortable or uncomfortable, but needs a moment to accommodate. It’s funny because my school years are long over. Besides this pen had horrible F nib. Tines were perfectly aligned but it was so scratchy on left stroke that collecte
    • stylographile
      Awesome! I'm in the process of preparing my bag for our pen meet this weekend and I literally have none of the items you mention!! I'll see if I can find one or two!
    • inkstainedruth
      @asota -- Yeah, I think I have a few rolls in my fridge that are probably 20-30 years old at this point (don't remember now if they are B&W or color film) and don't even really know where to get the film processed, once the drive through kiosks went away....  I just did a quick Google search and (in theory) there was a place the next town over from me -- but got a 404 error message when I tried to click on the link....  Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth 
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...