The Great Cursive Writing Debate: Lost Art Or Vital Skill?

[MercianScribe]

Wasn't as big as it seemed... Try telling my school though - and the building isn't so old... And a local epicentre for the first time in my experience.

 

Oh well, if there are no more rude interruptions...!

 

The International Dyslexia Association also recommends cursive on this page ( https://dyslexiaida.org/why-bother-with-cursive/ ), but I've checked out most of their references and they were not conclusive to say the least.

 

They specifically recommend the following approach:

"Before the student begins to write on paper, all cursive formations should be practiced with the student standing up and working on a whiteboard or chalkboard. The four-step multisensory procedure known as “Trace, Copy, Cover, Closed” is vital (March 2015 Examiner). Be sure that each letter begins on the line and ends with a “smile” that is the beginning of the connecting stroke to the following letter."

 

This is one of the IDA's associated cursive recommending organisations:

http://www.asdec.org/

 

... But they seem to have a lot of circular confirmation, with most of their references being to other somewhat unscientific educational studies.

 

The most common expression resembling an introduction to these topics on these sites seems to be 'It is recommended...'. Not too confidence inspiring.

[MercianScribe]

Nice list of links, Amberlea... I'll have to go through that.

[ParkerDuofold]

yes, and "she"? How is she judged?

 

Please spare us the politically correct semantics... it's a meaningless red herring... anyone who uses proper English knows what Paul meant... and if they do not know it... they better learn it; like my grandparents did when they came here from Italy.

 

 

Language, for some, is even a barrier to God (or divinity).

 

You are gravely mistaken here. For one thing you're implying things are beyond God's comprehension... which is impossible. Secondly, a deaf, blind mute such as Helen Keller was still able to communicate with God. HE listens to the intentions of your HEART.

 

That said, I'm going to take my leave of this thread... I think any further debate would only be an exercise in futility. We each have our own perspectives... and never the twain shall meet.

 

Just one final note: regarding love letters, (which I was going to let drop, but...); some people see romance as "Walk this Way" by Aerosmith; others see it as "Come Softly to Me" by The Fleetwoods, (I can't believe I'm arguing this using popular songs ),... I prefer to be in the latter group... romance is something precious... it should be treated as such.

 

Be well all.

 

- Anthony

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by ParkerDuofold

[ParramattaPaul]

 

yes, and "she"? How is she judged? ...

 

Thank you Sir or Madam for an excellent example of the definition of pedantic.

 

AS for your question regarding fair and accurate judgement, I will ask, is any judgement fair and accurate or is it subjective?

 

I will add that no one has suggested that anyone worships grammar or cursive other than you. What has been suggested is that both have their place and purpose as a facility for communication.

Edited September 14, 2017 by ParramattaPaul

[praxim]

Regarding "yes, and 'she'? How is she judged", in the context of TSHerb's post, I took them to be having a gentle dig about clear use of language, not to mention that usages change over time, and in the rest of the post make exactly the point that judgmentalism is subjective.

 

Apart from some sense of personal affront, there may be furious agreement.

[TSherbs]

Wasn't as big as it seemed... Try telling my school though - and the building isn't so old... And a local epicentre for the first time in my experience.

 

Oh well, if there are no more rude interruptions...!

 

The International Dyslexia Association also recommends cursive on this page ( https://dyslexiaida.org/why-bother-with-cursive/ ), but I've checked out most of their references and they were not conclusive to say the least.

 

They specifically recommend the following approach:

"Before the student begins to write on paper, all cursive formations should be practiced with the student standing up and working on a whiteboard or chalkboard. The four-step multisensory procedure known as “Trace, Copy, Cover, Closed” is vital (March 2015 Examiner). Be sure that each letter begins on the line and ends with a “smile” that is the beginning of the connecting stroke to the following letter."

 

This is one of the IDA's associated cursive recommending organisations:

http://www.asdec.org/

 

... But they seem to have a lot of circular confirmation, with most of their references being to other somewhat unscientific educational studies.

 

The most common expression resembling an introduction to these topics on these sites seems to be 'It is recommended...'. Not too confidence inspiring.

 

thanks!

 

I will look into this in daylight....

[TSherbs]

Parker and Paul... what? I was simply making a point about precision in pronoun use. It's actually my job to do so in my workplace. Is anyone else here actually a teacher of grammar and writing? The thread title says "debate" after all. There is nothing personal in this for me at all. I am gathering that he same is not true for others.

 

And my point about language and divinity simply comes from my point of view that has been influenced by eastern spirituality and philosophy. Skepticism about the ability of language to mediate our transcendence with the divine is a very common idea. Much talked about. I don't understand what appears to be anger in response to a fairly widespread point of view, especially coming from a teacher of literature. I was simply confessing ambivalence about language--Satan, after all, was one of the most persuasive speakers. Language can deceive as well as reveal. I consider this pretty common stuff (not revelatory nor revolutionary nor insulting).

 

Praxim...yep

 

sheesh...

[TSherbs]

And before I turn in for the night, I might also say that this morning at my school I met with a parent of one of my students with special academic accommodations and our support services counselor and we worked up a plan, in part, to address some aspects of dysgraphia. This is actually my job to care about the topic of this thread, on a very professional and legal level. I guess I sounded "pedantic" to someone, but, honestly, I am just being professional. So when I actually see some better evidence about cursive and dysgraphia or general cognition, I will incorporate it more rigorously. But our specialist counselor knew nothing about any emphasis on the efficacy of cursive, and she has more training than I. But as I have said, humbly and sincerely, I am open to any research that anyone knows about.

 

Peace out.

[ParramattaPaul]

TSherbs, with respect I did not take your comment personally. While I often use gender inclusive (he/she, her/his, etc.) language, I assumed that 'he' would be recognised as gender neutral, as it traditionally has been. That said, your reply did genuinely seem pedantic.

 

Your eastern spirituality, philosophy and language comment is particularly informative as I have only a passing familiarity with eastern religions. Your 'ambivalence about language' is understandable in that context. I agree that language can deceive as well as reveal. John Henry Newman is quoted as saying, 'Evil has no substance of its own, but is only the defect, excess, perversion, or corruption of that which has substance.' One could apply this concept to inanimate objects, including language. The defect, etc. would be how it is use by the animate - the person - the 'substance'.

Edited September 14, 2017 by ParramattaPaul

[pajaro]

Based on some of the writing I see, even here, cursive is perhaps verging on being a lost art.

[MercianScribe]

 

thanks!

 

I will look into this in daylight....

 

Don't get your hopes up! It mostly seems to confirm what you suspect about there being very little science-based evidence to back up the cursive writing claims of some of these dyslexic organisations.

[amberleadavis]

Scribes and TSherbs,

 

I just can't find the research to support cursive being necessary, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I would have better luck if I were at the school computers since they have access to academic journals.

[TSherbs]

 

Don't get your hopes up! It mostly seems to confirm what you suspect about there being very little science-based evidence to back up the cursive writing claims of some of these dyslexic organisations.

 

I understand. I still want to poke around myself. Thanks for it.

[TSherbs]

... That said, your reply did genuinely seem pedantic.

 

see Praxim above

 

he/she summarized my intentions well, I think

[max dog]

Just for fun and fuel for the fire.

It's funny how some signatures are going to look like in the future.

[TSherbs]

Just for fun and fuel for the fire.

It's funny how some signatures are going to look like in the future.

 

thanks dog

 

Most of this is about the value of using handwriting in learning, and no one really doubts this (research findings, including the MRI studies mentioned here, support the claim).

 

The only specific claim about the efficacy of cursive over printing was a claim which began with "Doctor's say...." And that was it. Not which doctors nor what kind of doctors nor any specific reference to research to support this. It is just a tv piece, but that is still a moment of shoddy journalism.

 

Although I disagree with some aspects of the Common Core, I hope that most people believe that if there were any clear and demonstrable benefit to teaching cursive, that educators would in fact keep it as a requirement. As one myself, while I admit that we are not perfect and are prone to the same defects as our fellow humans, for the most part we follow the evidence that educational and cognitive research shows us. If there were any significant evidence that cursive has cognitive value over printing, we would insist on it.

 

So far, that evidence is lacking.

 

Cursive has other social and historical values, and, so, many teachers still teach it (as is true at my school), but to require and insist on it without clear educational or cognitive benefits (beyond sentiment, tradition, and aesthetics) is not likely to continue as social and workplace values change.

[amberleadavis]

Here's a freakenomics conversation - print is the thing.

 

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/who-needs-handwriting/

[ReadyFireAim]

Years ago you would not be considered fully educated without being able to read music and at least one foreign language.

 

A person from that time would have a rough time with a vending machine today.

 

I don't know, how much can you pack inside the head of a high school student?

My father's college biology texbook was written before the discovery of DNA which apparently left him time for a mandatory etiquette class. (Class of 61)

Edited September 16, 2017 by Bordeaux146

[TSherbs]

Here's a freakenomics conversation - print is the thing.

 

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/who-needs-handwriting/

 

yep

 

thanks

[ParkerDuofold]

Hi all,

 

Every time I think that I'm out!... they pull me back in!

 

I can just speak from my own personal experience... I'm not an educator... I'm not leaning on reams of paper filled with studies, (which btw, can usually be slanted any way you want to slant them... studies and statistics are often a "liar's game"), but I'm going to put all of that to the side and just speak straight from actual life experience.

 

I know that printing requires more of a physical effort, but less of a cognitive effort to form the letters; whereas cursive is less demanding physically,... but does require more of a cognitive effort to form the letters correctly.

 

That said, I believe two things to be true... the latter reason is why cursive is dropping in popularity, (it's not just technology alone; it's also because each passing generation gets a little lazier and a little less intellectually enriched than the one before it - see Bordeaux' comments above), and two, anything that stimulates cognitive function should be strongly encouraged.

 

Be well and enjoy life.

 

 

- Anthony

 

P.S.: And if you know cursive... teach it to your kids, nephews and nieces... if their schools are not - as others have said, if it lives or dies is up to us... just as if whether or not Western Civilization lives or dies is also up to us.

 

EDITED to correct typos.

Edited September 16, 2017 by ParkerDuofold